cosmic wrote:
Problem with PCM stats is that they lack some properties, in particular mental abilities. Often you see riders do races as training for their season goals, and perform "badly" (Nibali's Dauphine performance vs Tour performance last year for instance), some crash more frequently than others, some are more motivated for smaller races than others, some are more aggressive/take more chances/attack more frequently and so forth. This sort of thing doesn't work very well in PCM atm cause it lacks any stats for it.
If you compare to Football Manager, you have stats like consistency, injury proness, important matches, pressure etc that dictate how the player performs within their maximal physical/technical ability, so you can have players that are extremely good at their best, but also very poor on bad days.
The most sane way of doing PCM stats atm is to make some considerations and look over a longer perspective to determine a stat. Dropping a rider 2-3 points cause he's been unfortunate and crashed out the past couple of months wouldn't be a good solution as it doesn't reflect the rider's real potential.
Some good points here but very hard I think to put in the game at the moment. I agree that some riders are more intelligent in the ways they race than others. For example a rider like Greg van Avermaet who's often the strongest wastes a hell of a lot of energy in pointless attacks early on, Vanmarcke this season has been similar in attacking at the wrong times and seems to have a hell of a load of punctures, whereas somebody like Frrome is just the opposite and has his attacks well planned and executed.
Some riders seem to crash all the time like Dan Martin, whereas riders like Boonen and Cancellara seem to attract accidents and injury as well.
Riders like Valverde find their level early in the season and then keep it throughout the year.
The game really needs some kind of variable stat for riders like 'tactical awareness' and 'luck' for example.
cosmic wrote:
Problem with PCM stats is that they lack some properties, in particular mental abilities. Often you see riders do races as training for their season goals, and perform "badly" (Nibali's Dauphine performance vs Tour performance last year for instance), some crash more frequently than others, some are more motivated for smaller races than others, some are more aggressive/take more chances/attack more frequently and so forth. This sort of thing doesn't work very well in PCM atm cause it lacks any stats for it.
If you compare to Football Manager, you have stats like consistency, injury proness, important matches, pressure etc that dictate how the player performs within their maximal physical/technical ability, so you can have players that are extremely good at their best, but also very poor on bad days.
The most sane way of doing PCM stats atm is to make some considerations and look over a longer perspective to determine a stat. Dropping a rider 2-3 points cause he's been unfortunate and crashed out the past couple of months wouldn't be a good solution as it doesn't reflect the rider's real potential.
Some good points here but very hard I think to put in the game at the moment. I agree that some riders are more intelligent in the ways they race than others. For example a rider like Greg van Avermaet who's often the strongest wastes a hell of a lot of energy in pointless attacks early on, Vanmarcke this season has been similar in attacking at the wrong times and seems to have a hell of a load of punctures, whereas somebody like Frrome is just the opposite and has his attacks well planned and executed.
Some riders seem to crash all the time like Dan Martin, whereas riders like Boonen and Cancellara seem to attract accidents and injury as well.
Riders like Valverde find their level early in the season and then keep it throughout the year.
The game really needs some kind of variable stat for riders like 'tactical awareness' and 'luck' for example.
This is spot on what I have been missing. How intelligence a rider is, BUT damn hard to put in a DB. However we do know something, and since a game like Football Manager works pretty good in how players behave (even off the pitch) it's not impossible.
Greg Van A, is a good example. Not that he is not very smart, but the pure fighter stats is not sufficient to a wild attacking rider.
(Betancur is of course totally a question mark)
In my opinion this stat should be more in combination with reckless driving that some sprinters I know off (no names).
Riders unknown should have an intelligence based on age and pro years in the peloton, which I think is a good start.
Just scrolling through the CT stats, Joni Brandao's stats surprised me a little. Seeing that he has hardly got any sprint results, 74 sprint seems a bit much which puts him as one of the best continental sprinters as well as being 70 mountain. Was this meant to be his acceleration stat?
Problem with any given stat is the preference of each and everyone of us. Stats will always be an interpretation of the race an the events in the race. An intelligence stat is something that could be a very useful variable for the PCM engine to compute or generate the outcome, but the so could be "luck or bad luck" factor could be 1.
This is every hard to capture in a database model, f.e. Jurgen Van den Broeck could be seen as somebody who is not better than x, but to others with a preference for him, could be seen as a top rider with a lot of bad luck in preparation to grand tours. Same can be said of Cancellara and Boonen for the last couple of years.
As for being dump or being brave and failing yes that also could be useful, but I think that a game producer will be hesitant to add a parameter, that is called "intelligence of a rider"... the still have to bargain for the yearly licences
FroomeDog99 wrote:
Just scrolling through the CT stats, Joni Brandao's stats surprised me a little. Seeing that he has hardly got any sprint results, 74 sprint seems a bit much which puts him as one of the best continental sprinters as well as being 70 mountain. Was this meant to be his acceleration stat?
WHAT THE FUCK????? Joni Brandão 74 sprint??? Jesleyh, are you drunk?!
Joni Brandão deserves between 70/72 MO and the same for Hills. His sprint his not good. he never was a sprinter but ACC 74 would be acceptable.
Btw, can anyone post Portuguese CT Teams Stats, pls?
In my opinion this stat should be more in combination with reckless driving that some sprinters I know off (no names).
Riders unknown should have an intelligence based on age and pro years in the peloton, which I think is a good start.
Well Betancur that's just down to poor fitness levels and poor weight control, I'd say he was pretty intelligent really as he's still got a contract
Most intelligent rider in the peloton is probably Gerrans even though he's crashed a lot this year. He's made a fine art of wheelsucking in long endurance races and then sprinting around the others to take victory, Milan-San Remo and LBL are great examples of this and he nearly did it as well in the last WC road race.
Degenkolb's a pretty smart rider as well, chooses his attacks well and doesn't start his sprints too early like his rival Kristoff who tends to run out of steam because he started his sprint too early.
Paolini's another (drug scandal excepted) a great rider/poker player that sits and waits his moment before putting in his decisive move. Examples Gent-Wevelgem this year and suckering Vandenbergh into doing all the work for him at Omloop a few years ago.
I would like to see a bigger sprint upgrade for Patrick Konrad, he surprised lately with good sprinting in bigger groups and should maybe be around 68...
AiZaK wrote:
When finish la Vuelta are you going to do a new update stats???
Caleb Ewan, Esteban Chaves,... and maybe more riders will need a update
The performances of Ewan and Chaves....not sure they deserve their upgrade juat yet. Chaves narrowly edged out Dumoulin and Roche in a stage, where the big guys just looked at each other. Ewan won one sprint against great sprinters. If they can continue their good efforts they definately deserve upgrades.
In last year you had Marcin Bialoblocki in the DB, but I can't find him in v1.5
He did win Polish ITT and even the ITT in Tour de Pologne (even that was questionable,hmm)
I know you don't have his british team, but should he not be in so that a pro team could sign him in 2016 ??
clamel wrote:
In last year you had Marcin Bialoblocki in the DB, but I can't find him in v1.5
He did win Polish ITT and even the ITT in Tour de Pologne (even that was questionable,hmm)
I know you don't have his british team, but should he not be in so that a pro team could sign him in 2016 ??
He rides for ONE Pro Cycling, which is in the db...
AiZaK wrote:
When finish la Vuelta are you going to do a new update stats???
Caleb Ewan, Esteban Chaves,... and maybe more riders will need a update
As Paul said it too early for these two, but it's clear that Chaves after looking how he's performed this season has prepared his season for the Vuelta. It's clear that his acceleration needs to be improved and his hill stat. But I'd wait for stage 11 to really look at his mtn stat as that will really reveal how everybody is.'
clamel wrote:
In last year you had Marcin Bialoblocki in the DB, but I can't find him in v1.5
He did win Polish ITT and even the ITT in Tour de Pologne (even that was questionable,hmm)
I know you don't have his british team, but should he not be in so that a pro team could sign him in 2016 ??
He rides for ONE Pro Cycling, which is in the db...
Indeed, I found him. The reason not finding him was that searching for him in Fast Editior is his surname is Białobłocki and not Bialoblocki. Slightly different, but Marcin was easy to find. Those strange extra letters in foreign names do mess up things, don't they
And yes I was lazy and didn't search in ONE Pro Cycling, which of course is his correct team.
Hey guys, has anyone thought of updating the stats of Dimitri Claeys, Jose Gonçalves, Robin Stenuit and Stef Van Zummeren?
Right now, Claeys has these stats in the game: FL: 70, MO: 58
DO: 67, CO: 69. TT: 66. PR:70, SP:64, ACC: 69. END: 67, RES:67. and REC: 60.
The stats I believe he should have are:
FL: 72 MO:58 still DO: 67 still CO: 70 TT: 66 (maybe lower, he hasn't shown any results in TT's over 10 km) PR: 70 (maybe 71? He's got one podium in a PR: ST. 1 at Volta a Portugal and a 6th in Tour de Normandie's prologue in March this year)
SP: 69 (He's won a slew of Belgian Races and international continental races in group sprints and like 10 other podiums from group sprints)
ACC: 69 to match his sprint
END: 68-70 mainly on having hung on to Bjorn Leukemans for as long as he did at Grote Prijs Jef Scherens just over a week ago.
RES: 68-70 based on same reasoning above
REC: 66? I'm not really sure, he did win @ Tour de Normandie because he was consistent, but everywhere else I look he showed nothing over multiple days
FTR: No clue, what he has is fine
Jose Gonçalves has these stats:
FL: 68 MO:70 DO: 70 CO: 58 TT: 69 PR:68 SP:65 ACC: 72
END: 68 RES: 67 HIL: 70 FTR: 74
I'd suggest: FL: same MO: 66? (There's been no true mountain @ the Vuelta, and he's shown no results in MO stages this year)
DO: 72? (I have no clue tbh, but he must have recovered well to get a 5th on the 10th stage today)
CO: lol, if he's gotten better I haven't seen it, keep it the same or lower it.
TT: keep the same, or up it to 70, that 2nd place in the TT in the Volta a Portugal looks good considering how strong (or doped ) the field was.
PR: same as PR, I personally like to keep the TT and PR stat close to each other unless the rider is a sprinter or is markedly better in either discipline.
SP: 68-70 maybe? At lowest, 68, but perhaps a 70 given it's not exactly a one off result (Good finishes in reduced sprints at Volta a Portugal and Boucles de la Mayenne)
ACC: Same as the SP, unless you guys have seen him get fast starts in sprints or if he's a punchy type rider.
END: Same as before, he doesn't really have results over long stages AFAIK.
RES: 70 minimum, 72 max., RES, from what I've seen in PCM, is huge to have plus those results he's gotten would be very difficult to get in PCM without a good RES stat or Successive +5 days.
REC: 67 still: He'll fade in the 3rd week unless he takes a few days in the Gruppetto then goes in breaks to get some results
Also, he doesn't have many results in longer stage races without having taken at least one off day.
HILL: 74, maybe 73, but no lower. Has a few top 10's in bumpy stages not in the Vuelta. Those top 5's he got in the Vuelta would not be possible with a Hill stat lower than 72, but since he is likely peaking right now, he can't be better than 74, he'd win races he shouldn't win and get top 15's in the Ardennes.
FTR: 74 is perfect.
Robin Stenuit, as of now, has these stats:
FL: 66, MO: 57, DO: 63, CO:62 TT: 54 PR: 51 SP:69 ACC: 69
END: 65 RES:63 REC: 60 FTR: 58 HIL: 62
I'd suggest:
FL: 68 (I love me some round numbers lol, but in all honesty, he's won 2 1.2 classics (Memorial Van Coningsloo, and GP Nogent-Sur-Oise) and 4 Belgian Amateur/ NE classification races plus one stage at the Tour of Gironde.
MO: 57 still, he's a Belgian sprinter, 'nuff said. (Actually, he has no results in any Mountainous Race)
DO: 66, because why not. (tbh, it's because he did well at the Ronde Van Limburg, which I assume has descents for its hills.
CO: 64 (could actually be higher in all honesty, but since he hasn't been very consistent, I can't really argue for much higher stats.)
TT: at least 58 (Wtf is 54 xD) imo. I'll point out that he has no results in TT's to speak of, not even in the Junior ranks, but my personal opinion says that no professional cyclist is that bad in a TT.
PR: 58-60 (Dear god why 51 :lol Imo. Look, this arguement is based on an 138th placed finish in the 2,1 Driesdaagse West-Vlaanderen, so this is as shaky as a one legged chair. My point is that he did beat quite a few mid-low 60 riders in PR on that stage, so he's got to be better than 51.
SP: 71 (Mostly based on that he's won multiple group sprints this year and that Schaal Sels Victory) I can't argue for anything higher than that because the Schaal Sels Victory came against Sprinters like Oliver Naesen, Kevyn Ista, and Ralf Matzka.
ACC: 71, to match his SP
END: same as before
RES: 65 (because of the Schaal Sels win and 6th place at Ronde van Limburg)
REC: 64 (Frankly just a general improvement for him, nothing more)
FTR: 64 (General Improvement)
HI: 66 (Mostly based on the 6th place finish at Ronde van Limburg, a bumpy 1.1 Belgian classic, won by Bjorn Leukemans)
For the Last Rider, Stef Van Zummeren, I'll just list the Stats he should have like this:
Old Stat ---> New Stat
FL: 63 ---> 68 (For having become a stronger rider this year)
MO: 58---> 63 (16th place in Tour of Croatia's Mountain stage and 16 on GC)
DO: 60---> 66 (General Improvement)
CO: 62---> 65 (General Improvement, plus for Victories in 1,2 Belgian Cobble classics)
TT: 63---> 65 (He's a Vital cog in Veranda's TTT success)
PR: 62---> 67 (Top 15's and 20's in Prologues, is a Sprinter)
SP: 58---> 69(hell, even 70 could work for him mostly because of solid results in 1.1 classics and 1.2 victories)
ACC: 59--> 69-70
END: 62---> 65
RES: 62---> 65 (All three: END, RES, and REC, are General Improvements)
REC: 61---> 65
HIL: 62---> 66-67 (Solid results in bumpy classics)
ATT: 64---> 68 (Has attacked to win 1.2 Classics)
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) the field was.
