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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| matt17br |
Posted on 13-08-2015 21:43
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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baseballlover312 wrote:
I think 76 mtn for Dan martin is fair. Maybe 75. Also his hill is way too high. 78 or so should work.
Don't forget you are the one who made pressure on Jesley to make him 78, you can't appear from nowhere in the stat discussion and ask for 75 mtn like this 
https://pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread....st_1102847
Nice to see you changing your mind so easily, being open-minded is good in 2015!
Edited by matt17br on 13-08-2015 21:47
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 13-08-2015 21:46
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Dan martin is nothing more than a 77 in mtn |
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| robinhoox3 |
Posted on 13-08-2015 21:53
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Amateur
Posts: 4
Joined: 06-07-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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fidjim2013 wrote:
dark_x2012 wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
robinhoox3 wrote:
i think Quintana is the best Climber in the game/real life and than froome.
quintana 84/83
froome 83/82
Quintana fans...
No Froome is the world's best. Quintana is the best to REC, but Froome is better than Quintana to everything else and therefore Quintana never has beaten Froome in a stage race.
@Froome fans...(if any )
They are equally good. Froome is always a beast in 2nd week cuz he aims for peak shape then. Quintana peaks for 3rd week. Spoken on PCM language. Froome in second week 100 fitness and starts decreasing by the end of the week towards 92-93 and until the end of the race towards 86-87, whereas Quintana(somewhat due to REC) is Quite the opposite. Looking only at times in the mountains. Quintana didn't loose to Froome in 2015 Tour and only lost 30-40 seconds on Froome in 2013, mainly due to BADLY PLACED attacks. They're fine on the same level.
It has nothing to do with peak shape it's just that froome and Quintana are different riders, Quintana is a typical 3rd week rider and froome is not but limit the losses during the third week while he has done a lot of damage during the 2nd week. They all have their own riding styles. Quite honestly froome is more a complete rider than Quintana,
how are they equally good ? froome can climb, sprint for a climber, he's good in timetrial and showed that he can hold is own during tour de france coobles, it's not the case of Quintana who is only known for climbing skills.
I think Quintana is the better climber .. BUT froome is the best ryder in overall that's for sure. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-08-2015 21:54
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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Listen, I've just had an enlightened experience. It's very hard to comprehend and explain.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 23:59
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| IP: None |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 13-08-2015 22:23
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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robinhoox3 wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
dark_x2012 wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
robinhoox3 wrote:
i think Quintana is the best Climber in the game/real life and than froome.
quintana 84/83
froome 83/82
Quintana fans...
No Froome is the world's best. Quintana is the best to REC, but Froome is better than Quintana to everything else and therefore Quintana never has beaten Froome in a stage race.
@Froome fans...(if any )
They are equally good. Froome is always a beast in 2nd week cuz he aims for peak shape then. Quintana peaks for 3rd week. Spoken on PCM language. Froome in second week 100 fitness and starts decreasing by the end of the week towards 92-93 and until the end of the race towards 86-87, whereas Quintana(somewhat due to REC) is Quite the opposite. Looking only at times in the mountains. Quintana didn't loose to Froome in 2015 Tour and only lost 30-40 seconds on Froome in 2013, mainly due to BADLY PLACED attacks. They're fine on the same level.
It has nothing to do with peak shape it's just that froome and Quintana are different riders, Quintana is a typical 3rd week rider and froome is not but limit the losses during the third week while he has done a lot of damage during the 2nd week. They all have their own riding styles. Quite honestly froome is more a complete rider than Quintana,
how are they equally good ? froome can climb, sprint for a climber, he's good in timetrial and showed that he can hold is own during tour de france coobles, it's not the case of Quintana who is only known for climbing skills.
I think Quintana is the better climber .. BUT froome is the best ryder in overall that's for sure.
For me I consider that they are actually on the same level in mountain because Quintana is not good in mountain during the 2nd week while froome is, during the 3rd week it's the inverse |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 13-08-2015 22:53
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Dan Martin is only a 77 MTN which is enough to scrape him into top 10's in a Giro or Vuelta BUT he is a fantastic hill climber and easily worth 81 Hill.
The guy has won two monuments in the last couple of seasons the pinnacle for any hilly classics man, but he's not going to get a monument every year and has just suffered from bad luck and crashes this year. Gerrans has crashed even more times this year than Martin and I don't see anybody wanting his stats put down.
Guys like Rodriguez have been around much longer and he's only managed two monuments and riders like Valverde and Gilbert have only captured three monuments in total and when they've had lean years their stats have only gone down a bit, so there's no need to punish Martin for a lean year.
The stats don't allow for poor bike handling, because if the did Martin would get a poor stat in that. |
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 13-08-2015 23:00
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World Champion
Posts: 11392
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Morganho wrote:
Dan Martin is overrated in MO. I think 76 would be perfect.
Okay, try getting 7th in the Vuelta behind only Contador, Froome, Valverde, Rodriguez, Aru and Sanchez with 76 mtn.
But with 75, anything is possible, eh baseball ?
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
2x  x2 |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-08-2015 23:10
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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Everyone has said stupid things in their past. I was young and stupid.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 13-08-2015 23:13
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Why don't you support BMC from now on, because with Porte next season they're going places. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-08-2015 23:15
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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Why don't you support BMC from now on, because with Porte next season they're going places.[/quote
I'm not exactly a Porte fan, and his presence sure doesn't help Tejay.
And I'm certainly not going to stop supporting Garmin because one of my formerly favorite riders left. They didn't push him out, he left. I'll follow them as they crash and burn. I still like the team.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 13-08-2015 23:19
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World Champion
Posts: 11392
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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I'm younger (cyclinghub reference ) and stupider but I didn't spaz out when Clarke left OGE.... yet
Spoiler Obviously bad comparison, dumb jandal, etc.
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] Xero Racing
5x x5
2x x2
2x x2 |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 14-08-2015 01:26
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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bbl, I really, really hate Dan, you know me. I also hate that he joins Etixx. But thats cycling. He leaves a team, he joins another one. When Tony leaves Etixx at some day, I will still be an Etixx Fan and a Tony Martin Fan(even if he moves to Sky). If you really like the rider, don't let you put down, because "cycling happened".
Dan will still be Dan at Etixx. It isn't that he is now a different evil Dan.
Just calm down and take it easy on him. He just probably did whats best for him(at least he thinks so), and thats ok. If he's happy, you're happy, thats the logic. So if he's happy at Etixx, be a real fan and support that. Or didn't you scream and jump, because of pure joy when he won LBL? At least I did when Tony won the damn yellow jersey.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 14-08-2015 01:40
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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First off, is Dan confirmed to Etixx? 
It's hard for me to really support him now. A move like this, I just can't understand, and it makes me think of the kind of person he is. I don't want to support that anymore.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 14-08-2015 01:44
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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baseballlover312 wrote:
First off, is Dan confirmed to Etixx?
It's hard for me to really support him now. A move like this, I just can't understand, and it makes me think of the kind of person he is. I don't want to support that anymore.
What? If Dan joins Etixx(I thought, by the posts above, that it would be stig) then what kind of person do you think he is? I would also love to ride for Etixx, if I ever had the chance, also $$$ which, you cant deny, is pretty important. No-one does their job for nothing. Maybe he just needs a new team, Etixx needs a Kwiatek replacement and BOOOM! there's the deal.
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 14-08-2015 01:44
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World Champion
Posts: 10891
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Most likely yes, with few big names leaving Etixx money is there for Dan as ''marquee'' signing, plus 50% of salary at Trek is taken by Cance, and since he's staying surely not much money for him there.
And his move away, well sometimes riders need different setup, different teammates, different team, different managers to rejuvenate their career, you rarely see one rider staying in one team his whole professional life.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 14-08-2015 01:50
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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Well, I don't know if a new language barrier is gonna stop him from crashing, cause that's the only problem he has. he hardly needs to rejuvenate his career.
But anyway, it's no sue fighting about my right to hate him.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 14-08-2015 08:13
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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baseballlover312 wrote:
I think 76 mtn for Dan martin is fair. Maybe 75. Also his hill is way too high. 78 or so should work.
Butthurt? 
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 14-08-2015 08:14
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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fidjim2013 wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
I think 76 mtn for Dan martin is fair. Maybe 75. Also his hill is way too high. 78 or so should work.
Are you kidding me now ? You want Dan Martin to be lowered by 2 in mountain and by 3 in hill that would be stupid
He's done shit all this season. All he does is crash. The stats he has are ludicrous.
You've got bad reasoning it's like if I was saying marcel kittel doesn't deserve 83 sprint and 83 acc because he hasn't done shit this year to keep it.
Well, that is actually true. 
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| cosmic |
Posted on 14-08-2015 16:36
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Stagiare
Posts: 171
Joined: 28-06-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Problem with PCM stats is that they lack some properties, in particular mental abilities. Often you see riders do races as training for their season goals, and perform "badly" (Nibali's Dauphine performance vs Tour performance last year for instance), some crash more frequently than others, some are more motivated for smaller races than others, some are more aggressive/take more chances/attack more frequently and so forth. This sort of thing doesn't work very well in PCM atm cause it lacks any stats for it.
If you compare to Football Manager, you have stats like consistency, injury proness, important matches, pressure etc that dictate how the player performs within their maximal physical/technical ability, so you can have players that are extremely good at their best, but also very poor on bad days.
The most sane way of doing PCM stats atm is to make some considerations and look over a longer perspective to determine a stat. Dropping a rider 2-3 points cause he's been unfortunate and crashed out the past couple of months wouldn't be a good solution as it doesn't reflect the rider's real potential.
Edited by cosmic on 14-08-2015 16:48
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 16-08-2015 21:32
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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If we have had consistency stat Porte would be 55-60 in that |
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