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Best climber last 20 years.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 30-07-2015 13:28
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dark_x2012 wrote:
Strydz wrote:
If we are ignoring everything then Pantani straight up! Massive distance to 2nd
I'm not ignoring anything and I know he was doped as hell but would still put him way before all cyclists. He was perhaps one of the most talented guys on earth. And I'd definitely put him in front of guys like Lance, Ulle, Schleck, Alberto, Froome, Heras, Mayo, Sastre, Quintana, etc.
Well, that is worth nothing, as we know jackshit about who was doped how much, so you have to ignore it widespread. He also could be the best responder, although i also see him as extreme talent. All things aside, he was the best pure climber in recent history.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 30-07-2015 13:29
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| Forza-Diavolo |
Posted on 30-07-2015 13:29
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trekbmc wrote:
Raises an interesting idea for something PCM (story? database?), where the very best riders (either overall or past 20 years) are sorted into 22 teams (national based or made to be equal ability) to race a GT. It would be an interesting type of comparison, you could sort each team to have 9 of the top 198 riders, based on who is (in dailys opinion?), the top climbers, sprinter, roleurs, etc. Would be interesting to be able to compare all these riders, especially on equal teams.
Although having an agreeable list of riders in the race or agreeable stats would be a challenge.
It's for my own database I change little in |
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| Forza-Diavolo |
Posted on 30-07-2015 13:29
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trekbmc wrote:
Raises an interesting idea for something PCM (story? database?), where the very best riders (either overall or past 20 years) are sorted into 22 teams (national based or made to be equal ability) to race a GT. It would be an interesting type of comparison, you could sort each team to have 9 of the top 198 riders, based on who is (in dailys opinion?), the top climbers, sprinter, roleurs, etc. Would be interesting to be able to compare all these riders, especially on equal teams.
Although having an agreeable list of riders in the race or agreeable stats would be a challenge.
It's for my own database I change little in |
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 30-07-2015 13:35
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Strydz wrote:
If we are ignoring everything then Pantani straight up! Massive distance to 2nd
Giro clip reprisal anyone?
https://www.youtu...Im92Pg1qLE
Mechanical to stage win - no problem! |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 30-07-2015 13:44
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The best climber would definitely have to be some sort of fast-growing vine.
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 30-07-2015 14:20
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Forza-Diavolo wrote:
Can see there is someone who believes Heras was better climb than Armstrong.
how can it be?
Heras was certainly one of the better climbers if not the best from his time.
Even more when you are looking for a pure climber. Armstrong was't really a pure climber in my opinion.
VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO
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| Strydz |
Posted on 30-07-2015 14:44
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CountArach wrote:
The best climber would definitely have to be some sort of fast-growing vine.
So something like a Bougainvillea? Or are you more of a Star Jasmine type of guy?
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 30-07-2015 15:05
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Results wise it's clearly Armstrong. You don't win 7 tdfs if you are not among the very very elite of all time. He was a great tt rider but he blasted rivals in the mountains just as often.
Pantani as well from the late 90s. Brilliant climber and a real hard fighter.
Though the last 20 years (1995-2015) has really been dominated by more all round style stage racers like Ullrich, Armstrong, Kloeden, Contador, Evans, Wiggins, Froome, Nibali etc etc. Even one off wonders like Mosquera, Sastre and Landis have never been horrible against the clock or also benefited from over doses of drugs, massively beneficial routes, lack of competition etc.
The best pure climbers were longer ago. People like Gaul or Bahamontes who'd be untouchable by anyone else in the high mountains.
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| Forza-Diavolo |
Posted on 30-07-2015 19:56
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Heras has probably never run from Lance up, and Lance has probably never met one who was better than him in the mountains? |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 30-07-2015 20:09
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Forza-Diavolo wrote:
Heras has probably never run from Lance up, and Lance has probably never met one who was better than him in the mountains?
From 1999-2005, I would say Basso was the best climber Armstrong faced, also slightly better than Heras. Mayo was in few spurts incredible, Ullrich was very good in the final week, Heras was incredible in 2002 and in Vuelta, Beloki probably on par.
So in my opinion:
Armstrong
Basso
Heras
Beloki/Ullrich
etc. |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 30-07-2015 20:16
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Heras was more dominant uphill in la Vuelta those years than Armstrong was in le Tour.
Contador is also a better climber as Armstrong. In 2009 they were exactly the same prepared. Armstrong knew that his TT'ing was not good enough during his comeback but he was very confidant he would win le Tour because of his climbing. Didn't happen.
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 30-07-2015 20:24
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Spilak23 wrote:
Heras was more dominant uphill in la Vuelta those years than Armstrong was in le Tour.
Contador is also a better climber as Armstrong. In 2009 they were exactly the same prepared. Armstrong knew that his TT'ing was not good enough during his comeback but he was very confidant he would win le Tour because of his climbing. Didn't happen.
Yep, I remember I saw a documentary and Armstrong said his numbers were better than they were before his first retirement, and he came back in 2009 fully expecting to win the Tour.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 30-07-2015 20:30
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Spilak23 wrote:
Heras was more dominant uphill in la Vuelta those years than Armstrong was in le Tour.
Contador is also a better climber as Armstrong. In 2009 they were exactly the same prepared. Armstrong knew that his TT'ing was not good enough during his comeback but he was very confidant he would win le Tour because of his climbing. Didn't happen.
Well the Vuelta was predominantly a spanish affair at that point. Can't really compare that. Armstrong was just, more or less, the best climber in the race 7 years in a row and was at his peak, no doubt for me, the better climber than Heras.
I was just answering his question about Armstrong in the period he mentioned, but yes, Contador was surely the better climber in 2009, no doubt about that. But the better climber overall than Armstrong? I don't know. if you include Contador in 'riders Armstrong have faced' (which I didnt since I pretty much discount 2009 and 2010), then Contador probably is the best, although 2005 Basso was godlike as well |
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 30-07-2015 20:30
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Spilak23 wrote:
Contador is also a better climber as Armstrong. In 2009 they were exactly the same prepared. Armstrong knew that his TT'ing was not good enough during his comeback but he was very confidant he would win le Tour because of his climbing. Didn't happen.
Well, Armstrong actually was really old by then, 37 or 38 I think. You can't make a parallel. It might have been just that Lance was like Bjarne Riis:Great with doping, only good without it. It might have been that his shape declined from the age. |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 30-07-2015 20:44
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You won't convince me Heras was a better climber than Armstrong. His dominance just seemed much better because he always took a couple more minutes in the timetrials.
We'll have to agree to disagree I think. 
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 30-07-2015 22:24
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TheManxMissile wrote:
The best pure climbers were longer ago. People like Gaul or Bahamontes who'd be untouchable by anyone else in the high mountains.
Well once you go all-time then there is Ocaña, Pottier, Jiminez and van Impe, real pure climbers as well as Gaul and Bahamontes, also some GC riders such as Poulidor, Coppi, Bobet, Merckx, Gimondi, Thevenet, Idurain, Hinault, Bartali, Maes, etc. were very good in the mountains.
@Forza
Do you mean you are making a db/story like that?
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 31-07-2015 07:05
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Results wise it's clearly Armstrong. You don't win 7 tdfs if you are not among the very very elite of all time.
Armstrong has not won any TdF. 
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 31-07-2015 07:08
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Well, he won 7 TDF, he just doesn't have any TDF title
slight difference, but important.
Like Schleck has 1 TDF title, but hasn't won a TDF. Contador actually won 3 TDF, but only has 2 to his credit.
Try explaining cycling to someone with this shit |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 31-07-2015 07:13
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Talking about shit, i refuse to even call that piece of shit from Texas a sportsman. Mobster is a better suited title for him and he does not have any Tour titles, which means he does not won any.
Cheating and bullying yourself to victory is not a winning in my eyes.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 31-07-2015 07:14
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Talking about shit, i refuse to even call that piece of shit from Texas a sportsman. Mobster is a better suited title for him and he does not have any Tour titles, which means he does not won any.
Cheating and bullying yourself to victory is not a winning in my eyes.
Arguably true 
Though he was on the podium in Paris, and for most riders, this seems to be winning a Tour. Except for Schleck, who was only too happy to accept his victory  |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
