|
The most gifted cyclist?
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 01:38
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 28-07-2015 21:22
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
I have been following cycling the last 12 years or so and since I watched the Pantani-documentary yesterday, I have thought to myself: Who has been the most gifted rider for, say, the last 10-15 years? I have come up with a list and have probably forgotten someone. God given talent is extremely hard to quantify, especially since cycling was and still is infected with doping, so I may be totally wrong here. Its all quite hypothetically, but I have based it a lot on how early and when the broke through, thus why fx. Froome isnt included. Please, lets have a debate!
10. Paolo Bettini
More or less only know him from PCM and the early stages of when I started to watch cycling when he won a couple of WCs. Could climb very decently in form and pretty much won all kind of races with one of the best sprints in smaller groups. Godlike puncheur and one day racer.
9. Petacchi
Most dominating sprinter I have ever come across. He literally swept the first week when in form of all the 3 GT's, although with lesser success in the Tour compared to the Giro.
8. Quintana
One of the present two best climbers with an uncanny ability to get better throughout the race (which is the reason he gets this spot). Already showed his incredible talent the first season at Movistar, winning various stages and climbing with the best a some stages in his first GT, Vuelta 2012.
7. Cancellera
Probably the best rider in the peloton at some point in the late 00's or early 10's, sweeping prologies, ITT's and classics. Godlike talent.
6. Boonen
Could probably have won a lot more than he has done and probably deserves a higher spot, even top-3. In form with focus, without a doubt the best classics rider in the peloton from a very young age and was at some point probably also the fastest man in the world.
5. Alberto Contador
Couldnt show of in 2006 due to Puerto, so had to settle for the year later, winning Paris - Nice and Tour de France at a very young age due to his extremely explosive climbing ability. And who doesnt remember Verbier, storming up the mountain and winning his second Tour? Outstanding talent who definetely had the potential, but not the luck, to match Indurain's 5, if not eclipse them.
4. Valverde
The unbeatable won an extreme amount of bike races when young, due to his explosive finish and climbing abilities, but did manage to transition that into the pros as well which many havent succeeded in, dominating classics, winning stages and competing for the overall GC in the big Tours.
3. Andy Schleck
Honestly wanted to put him higher. One of the most gifted riders ever who just didnt seem to care all that much about it. All he cared about was the Tour and to some extent L-B-L, but alá Ullrich, simply did not put that much work in it at some points. Still, an outstanding climber, who broke through in 2007 with a 2nd overall in the Giro and promised all cycling fans of duel between him and Contador for the next 6-8 years.
2. Sagan
I cant believe this man sometimes. Broke through as a 20-year old who didnt know jackshit about who he was competing against and couldn't say a word in English either, but was and is so extremely talented that not even half of it is fair. 2 years later, stormed onto the Tour de France, dominating the Green Jersey for 4 years in a row, with 3 victories in the first week.
1. Ullrich
Talent-wise, far and beyond the better rider (at least stage racing-wise) than Lance. A domestique for Riis in 1996, humiliated him in the TT as 22-year finished 2nd, winning easily next year and got ambushed by the best climber in history due to a sugar crisis in 1998, finishing 2nd again, which would prove to be his destiny. From that point on, didnt seem to care as Schleck and was often ill prepared to face off against Armstrong, always showing up with some extra kilos. What could it have been if not for that mentality (or Amstrong, for that matter).... 5,6,7, even 8 Tour de Frances? |
| |
|
|
| tsmoha |
Posted on 28-07-2015 21:26
|
Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11819
Joined: 19-07-2010
PCM$: 300.00
|
Ullrich, I agree 
|
| |
|
|
| Paul23 |
Posted on 28-07-2015 21:30
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
|
No Betancur?
|
| |
|
|
| Spilak23 |
Posted on 28-07-2015 21:31
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7357
Joined: 22-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
|
| |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 28-07-2015 21:32
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
Schleck
He should have won at least 3 TdF's
But he didn't care about anything and after his injury it was over
Edited by Forever the Best on 28-07-2015 21:33
|
| |
|
|
| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 28-07-2015 21:33
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 857
Joined: 13-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Meh man I think you should put Pantani here somewhere. Doper or not this guy is a legend, perhaps the best climber ever. Doped or not he set up times on climbs that even nowadays with the extremely advanced bikes compared to then are more then 3 minutes behind. He might not have been the best TT-ist but was definitely one of the greatest of this sport and one of the most aggressive and entertaining riders of all time. No matter how much EPO he was on, I dare say he would still be the best climber without the EPO if he was born 15-20 years later and was riding in a cleaner peleton. |
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 28-07-2015 21:35
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Remember, said earlier my list list only included riders from the last 10-15 years, can only speak for riders I witnessed myself. Pantani for sure would have taken one of the top spots there, but I didnt wanna include riders from the 90's that I dont know jackshit about.
Betancur is a good one, I also considered Løfkvist, Hagen, Gesink etc. |
| |
|
|
| Spilak23 |
Posted on 28-07-2015 21:41
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7357
Joined: 22-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
Roberto Heras also fits in the last 10-15 year time frame and I also think of him as a truly gifted climber. Very underrated. One of the 10 best climbers of all time in my book. Shame he never returned to pro cycling after his suspension. He was only 33 when he could've come back.
|
| |
|
|
| valverde321 |
Posted on 28-07-2015 21:41
|
World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
|
Ricco maybe.
Wiggins could be debated. Amazing on the track. Great at TTs first and eventually a TDF winner.
Cavendish
Cough....Armstrong....Cough
Freire
If Schleck is on the list, so could so many others....
Vino
Rebellin
|
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 28-07-2015 21:45
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Yeah, Armstrong deserves a spot here. No doubt. I considered Heras and Mayo as well, but yeah, there are only so many spots... Bettini probably doesnt fit in here? |
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 28-07-2015 21:50
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Wiggins also. But how much of that transition is due to the presumed unlevelled playing ground in 2012 (and to some extent, I guess also now)? Its all assumptions. But either way, extremely talented, yes. Schleck was just in another league, wouldnt dump him a spot. |
| |
|
|
| Spilak23 |
Posted on 28-07-2015 21:54
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7357
Joined: 22-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
Me personally I rate Bettini over Cancellara. Petacchi probably would be the first one out but those 3 years after he met his wife were so dominant. That 3 year stretch was truly incredible. Shame he blew out his knee cause he was not slowing down yet.
(lol I love all these guys from the past  )
|
| |
|
|
| mascered |
Posted on 28-07-2015 21:59
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 30
Joined: 28-05-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
I definitely think that Bettini deserves to be on your list. He was so extremely allround but not "allround enough" to just be a water carrier. Tactically he was the best in the peloton at the time and could win any race basically.
I think Kwiatkowski could be someone close enough to make it into this list. |
| |
|
|
| trekbmc |
Posted on 28-07-2015 22:00
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
PCM$: 700.00
|
Was halfway through the list and thought Ullrich first, Sagan second (even in lists), so pretty funny to see it right, I definetly agree, 
Although IMO in all time Flice Gimondi would make the top 3.
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
|
| |
|
|
| Dee-Jay |
Posted on 28-07-2015 22:01
|
Free Agent
Posts: 129
Joined: 20-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
If you're gonna have some of those guys who got busted for doping then you might as well have Lance in there too!
Wiggins in there for track successes, TdF and GT placings, World TT, top 10 in Paris-Roubaix.
Cavendish for being the most succesful sprinter of last 10 years.
Dare I say Froome?
What about Nibali? How many other riders have won all 3 GTs in their careers in recent times?
Sagan - he's great but he's now basically an expert in finishing top 5 or so but not winning. I'd like to see him start winning Monuments like we expected him to do. But i fear the rise of Degenkolb and Kristoff may prevent that.
Freire? |
| |
|
|
| Waghlon |
Posted on 28-07-2015 22:01
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7694
Joined: 18-08-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
He absolutely does. Olympic gold, five monuments, three World Cups and two rainbow jerseys. He was gifted beyond words.
I also think Óscar Freire is an honorable mention. Skilled in a number of different types of classics.
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
 |
| |
|
|
| valverde321 |
Posted on 28-07-2015 22:02
|
World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
Wiggins also. But how much of that transition is due to the presumed unlevelled playing ground in 2012 (and to some extent, I guess also now)? Its all assumptions. But either way, extremely talented, yes. Schleck was just in another league, wouldnt dump him a spot.
True, Schleck and Contador together were in another league. I was more going off results. Conta always seemed to have Schleck in his back pocket, for his only goal of every season after 2009.
And yeah, first to go off the list would be Petacchi.
Mayo is a good suggestion as well.
|
| |
|
|
| trekbmc |
Posted on 28-07-2015 22:04
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
PCM$: 700.00
|
I think it means on raw talent, which the riders on the list had a lot, even if it was wasted. Riders such as Armstrong, Froome, Wiggins, Nibali, etc. Weren't some amazing super talent at the start of there careers.
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
|
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 28-07-2015 22:17
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
trekbmc wrote:
I think it means on raw talent, which the riders on the list had a lot, even if it was wasted. Riders such as Armstrong, Froome, Wiggins, Nibali, etc. Weren't some amazing super talent at the start of there careers.
Yup, raw talent in its purest definition. Thats why is pretty hard.. So, what I have come across so far maybe deserving to get on to the list:
Wiggins, Heras, Vino, Freire, Nibz, Betancur, Kwiatek, Cav (I think the general consensus should be Petacchi > Cav, right), Zabel, Hagen (I mean, those first years....). Lance is the obvious no-brainer here. Maybe even Tony, Hushovd, Gilbert, Gesink? Mayo and Basso as well.
Edited by Riis123 on 28-07-2015 22:19
|
| |
|
|
| valverde321 |
Posted on 28-07-2015 22:17
|
World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
|
trekbmc wrote:
I think it means on raw talent, which the riders on the list had a lot, even if it was wasted. Riders such as Armstrong, Froome, Wiggins, Nibali, etc. Weren't some amazing super talent at the start of there careers.
TBH, the only one that wasn't very talented as a young rider that you mention is Froome.
Armstrong was a great one day racer, he won LBL, a stage at the TDF and the WC at 21.
Wiggins was a great TT rider and track rider
And Nibali had good results in U23 TT events before finishing 19th in his first ever Grand Tour at 22 years of age.
Froome finished 84th at his first GT at age 22 for comparison.
|
| |
|
