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Le Tour de France 2015 | Stage 19: Modane / Alpe d' Huez
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:28
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Domestique
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clamel wrote:
Ybodonk I agree that the knowledge is a bit various.
I think I have seen the most (also as active long ago) since mid-70's and it has always been the biggest stars of their age that has been the one taken the critic. Then when they have been caught in the net and exposed the scandal has been terrible. Lance is the major case I think. Remember that even long before cycling was such a global event, the supreme Merckx was in the net too. I lived in Denmark at the time Bjarne Riis was caught. After being hailed as National Icon after his TDF win he dropped to the cellar and folks was just furious as hell. That has later slowly turned back to some sort of acceptance. But it took time.
Other that was dropped with the hammers and not mentioned so much, adding to your list, Rasmussen, Vinokorov, Tylor Hamilton and from the golden years Joop Zoetemelk, Michel Pollentier, Jean-Luc van den Broucke, Francesco Moser, Pedro Delgado, Erik Zabel and so many more.
Even great French like Thevenet used cortisone for a number of years and Fignon used amphetamines and Virenque too
The list is terrible and seems to be endless.
https://en.wikipe...in_cycling
Reading that so many sad memory returned.
However one has to think about that doping is a very wide area, and sometimes certain stuff is in and out of the list. Also it's from steroids, EPO down to cough mixture. A mistake or systematic use of stuffs too.
Just know that asthma is really common among many riders, at least in the past and in the past one was not really sure what medicine for it included.
It has always been there and will always be. So better enjoy what one sees on the road and on the screens. (without spitting)
As you mentioning one better enjoy the riders as of now and then just scream SHIT-- him too, if the hammer drops.
A good and nuanced point of view and i can see we are on the same page.
The hypocricy surrounding Hamilton Landis and Rasmussen, was and still is a big shame. They got in the "blacklisted book", and never got the chance to compete at the highest level. |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:28
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Tour de France Champion
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Ian Butler wrote:
Guido Mukk wrote:
we can say froome has it..no way Quintana can take every 10km. 1min. back..
Yeah, also Valverde was too weak. If Valverde had been better, Quintana and he could've reached the top without Froome and things would've been different.
Froome had to catch up before the top and he did.
Say what you will, but Froome really did everything perfect this Tour and I have lots of respect for him during this Tour.
It is perfect tour for him. I would like to really know how he is inside a team..how he kicked out Wiggins from team what was almost built around him was one big example.
He is more and more agressive in peloton..kicking raiders who is riding he's "place"..verbally attacking rival when ever has reason..this man is changed.
Like Lance..you need to be quite a dick to be Tour winner |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:28
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World Champion
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Jacdk wrote:
Yep, at least its not a french rider winning that one...
Chris, you shouldn't be on your phone on a downhill.
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| Strydz |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:28
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Team Leader
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I really hope they back off enough so Geniez can hold on up the Alpe, he's a great little climber and I still have fond memories of him winning atop of the Angliru
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:28
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
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Spilak23 wrote:
IF the favourites don't fight for the stage win it will suck big time
Agreed! Dno why they put Anacona up in here, but they have one more helper. Astana should have Scarponi and Kangert or Fugel as well and I hope Sky wants to chase, I mean, why not? They have the personnel |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:29
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8290
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Kirchen_75 wrote:
Turbo Thomas has been downgraded below Roche in the Skyborg ranks. From hero to zero 
I get the feeling he burned himself out trying to hold on for GC. He really shouldn't have done that.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:29
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Tour de France Champion
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Strydz wrote:
I really hope they back off enough so Geniez can hold on up the Alpe, he's a great little climber and I still have fond memories of him winning atop of the Angliru
That was Elissonde
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:30
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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Guido Mukk wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Guido Mukk wrote:
we can say froome has it..no way Quintana can take every 10km. 1min. back..
Yeah, also Valverde was too weak. If Valverde had been better, Quintana and he could've reached the top without Froome and things would've been different.
Froome had to catch up before the top and he did.
Say what you will, but Froome really did everything perfect this Tour and I have lots of respect for him during this Tour.
It is perfect tour for him. I would like to really know how he is inside a team..how he kicked out Wiggins from team what was almost built around him was one big example.
He is more and more agressive in peloton..kicking raiders who is riding he's "place"..verbally attacking rival when ever has reason..this man is changed.
Like Lance..you need to be quite a dick to be Tour winner
I think it's the other way around.
Riding the Tour to win and enduring the constant attacks, both verbally, phisically, form the press, from the "fans", from opponents... makes you cautious and even overly cautious into aggressive. Well, some people. Froome was dropped in this world coming out of nowhere quickly.
Guys like Valverde are used to winning from when they were young and can handle it better.
That's what I think, at least. |
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:30
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
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Geniez won at Peyragudes that Vuelta
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 10:26
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:30
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Strydz wrote:
I really hope they back off enough so Geniez can hold on up the Alpe, he's a great little climber and I still have fond memories of him winning atop of the Angliru
The guy is huge. Theres a reason he wins Tro-Bro Leon. 
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:31
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7702
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Its funny that everyday different Skyborg rider has a good day. Yesterday it was Poels today its Porte other days its König or Thomas.
Its almost like they play rock paper scissors who uses the margins gains every day because theres not enough for all |
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| Dusen |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:31
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Protected Rider
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Ian Butler wrote:
Guido Mukk wrote:
we can say froome has it..no way Quintana can take every 10km. 1min. back..
Yeah, also Valverde was too weak. If Valverde had been better, Quintana and he could've reached the top without Froome and things would've been different.
Froome had to catch up before the top and he did.
Say what you will, but Froome really did everything perfect this Tour and I have lots of respect for him during this Tour.
I disagree. He made a lot of crucial mistakes imo, but luck have been on his side this whole Tour. He is a strong rider, but he is stupid as fuck when it comes to tactics |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:32
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
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CountArach wrote:
Kirchen_75 wrote:
Turbo Thomas has been downgraded below Roche in the Skyborg ranks. From hero to zero
I get the feeling he burned himself out trying to hold on for GC. He really shouldn't have done that.
Ehm, why? Yeah, he probably isnt as strong now (like it matters, I mean... they are still hella solid), but you gotta test your limits, its his first GT he rides in the top GC. He will be back for sure next year, stronger and more experienced due to this year. |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:33
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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Kirchen_75 wrote:
Its funny that everyday different Skyborg rider has a good day. Yesterday it was Poels today its Porte other days its König or Thomas.
Its almost like they play rock paper scissors who uses the margins gains every day because theres not enough for all
Well it actually makes a lot more sense than all their riders being supergood every day. These exploits are quite plausible. Save yourself 3 days, then a stage where you give it your all and switch it around.
Makes more sense than be there every single day. And also a good tactic to give the guys some rest here and there. |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:35
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8290
Joined: 14-07-2008
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Kirchen_75 wrote:
Its funny that everyday different Skyborg rider has a good day. Yesterday it was Poels today its Porte other days its König or Thomas.
Its almost like they play rock paper scissors who uses the margins gains every day because theres not enough for all
They should give Motoman a call
Riis123 wrote:
CountArach wrote:
Kirchen_75 wrote:
Turbo Thomas has been downgraded below Roche in the Skyborg ranks. From hero to zero
I get the feeling he burned himself out trying to hold on for GC. He really shouldn't have done that.
Ehm, why? Yeah, he probably isnt as strong now (like it matters, I mean... they are still hella solid), but you gotta test your limits, its his first GT he rides in the top GC. He will be back for sure next year, stronger and more experienced due to this year.
Sure, I get that. But in my opinion (and it is just an opinion), you shouldn't be doing that if you are there solely to be a domestique, particularly one that was never tipped to be the team's plan B. It is all about riding for the team and there is not much room for individuals in that, particularly not riders who are third or fourth in the pecking order.
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| Strydz |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:35
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Team Leader
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Spilak23 wrote:
Strydz wrote:
I really hope they back off enough so Geniez can hold on up the Alpe, he's a great little climber and I still have fond memories of him winning atop of the Angliru
The guy is huge. Theres a reason he wins Tro-Bro Leon.
Haha! Yeah I realise that, it was more that he isn't a big name than his actual size 
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:35
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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Dusen wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Guido Mukk wrote:
we can say froome has it..no way Quintana can take every 10km. 1min. back..
Yeah, also Valverde was too weak. If Valverde had been better, Quintana and he could've reached the top without Froome and things would've been different.
Froome had to catch up before the top and he did.
Say what you will, but Froome really did everything perfect this Tour and I have lots of respect for him during this Tour.
I disagree. He made a lot of crucial mistakes imo, but luck have been on his side this whole Tour. He is a strong rider, but he is stupid as fuck when it comes to tactics
Don't see where he made any big mistake considering he's always been firmly in the lead.
And luck... There are those who say that you force your luck. Though I'm not one of them, and Froome has been lucky on a few occasions, but then again, every rider has a bit of luck every now and then. Can't do anything without some luck. |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:35
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
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fun ta watch Navardauskas..he is strong fellow..turning such a hard iron for Hesjedal |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:37
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Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
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CountArach wrote:
Kirchen_75 wrote:
Its funny that everyday different Skyborg rider has a good day. Yesterday it was Poels today its Porte other days its König or Thomas.
Its almost like they play rock paper scissors who uses the margins gains every day because theres not enough for all
They should give Motoman a call
Riis123 wrote:
CountArach wrote:
Kirchen_75 wrote:
Turbo Thomas has been downgraded below Roche in the Skyborg ranks. From hero to zero
I get the feeling he burned himself out trying to hold on for GC. He really shouldn't have done that.
Ehm, why? Yeah, he probably isnt as strong now (like it matters, I mean... they are still hella solid), but you gotta test your limits, its his first GT he rides in the top GC. He will be back for sure next year, stronger and more experienced due to this year.
Sure, I get that. But in my opinion (and it is just an opinion), you shouldn't be doing that if you are there solely to be a domestique, particularly one that was never tipped to be the team's plan B. It is all about riding for the team and there is not much room for individuals in that, particularly not riders who are third or fourth in the pecking order.
Well said Count, that's exactly what I was thinking yesterday
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| SotD |
Posted on 25-07-2015 14:37
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World Champion
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What's up with the Portechkin name?
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