RaboStory feat. The Flemish Missile
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pcm2009fan |
Posted on 02-07-2012 19:34
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Intro
Hello and welcome to my new story. This is my fourth attempt at the story on the site, after "Neutral Story" 1 & 2, and a failed 2007 FDJ attempt. I've really not been very active on the site since then because of school stuff, but with the summer holidays beginning (and laptop-health dependant) im back to have another taste at writing.
And unlike neutral story, I actually learned how to play the game for myself this time! (albeit on an undisclosed difficulty level ) and will be taking charge of the orange men of Rabobank.
Spoiler ps maybe you can tell I hate sprinting in this game... Freire, Brown and Leezer have been mysteriously magicked away before I took over.. Stetina was brought in during January
Now a couple of notes before we begin. The database as you can maybe tell from the squad has been updated by myself to rough 2012 stats. The year remains 2009 as do the actual squads, just to add a little fun into the fray. A few other tidbits have been altered but otherwise resembles the original db.
Oh yeah and, although followers and comments would be greatly appreciated, I'll probably only be doing very short reports on only the big races due to time constraints and personal preference.
So I'm not guaranteeing this will be a great story with immaculate presentation and integrity, more of a report on me messing around on the game, so don't take things to seriously. Because of the Tdf and my summer job, I can't say for sure when I will next post, but I'll see you then with my next update!
Edited by pcm2009fan on 05-07-2012 22:39
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mpardo |
Posted on 02-07-2012 19:47
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Sprinter
Posts: 1738
Joined: 06-09-2011
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Nice to know I'm not alone in this forum anymore. Good luck with the story!
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alexanderlens |
Posted on 02-07-2012 19:58
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 990
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Yeah good luck!
Guess who's back?
Lets see how many friens are still around...
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pcm2009fan |
Posted on 03-07-2012 16:42
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thanks for the support! I will try to get back up to date with your story mpardo.
It's my birthday today! In other news the season's racing has begun:
Australian Championships
Road Race: Hilton Clarke (Fuji-Servetto)
Time Trial: Cadel Evans (Silence-Lotto)
Matthew Hayman was our only rider here, but he finished outside the top 20 in both races.
The first race reports will be up next. We will be staying in Australia as we prepare for the new season in the Tour Down Under.
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lluuiiggii |
Posted on 03-07-2012 17:23
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
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Happy birthday Nice to see a new story with PCM 09
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sutty68 |
Posted on 04-07-2012 11:21
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 34654
Joined: 22-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Good Luck with this Rabobank story, hope this one lasts
BTW - A belated Happy Birthday
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pcm2009fan |
Posted on 04-07-2012 19:16
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Startlist
Spoiler COLUMBIA
1. E.Boasson Hagen
2. M.Barry
3. B.Grabsch
4. A.Hansen
5. G.Henderson
6. M.Renshaw
7. V.Reynès
BARLOWORLD
11. C.Froome
12. D.Caccia
13. S.Cummings
14. D.Impey
15. M.Merlo
16. C.Scognamiglio
17. G.Thomas
FUJI
21. J.Cobo
22. H.Clarke
23. J.Del Nero
24. J.Jufre Pou
25. B.Shpilevsky
26. A.Tonti
27. D.Vigano
CERVELO
31. S.Gerrans
32. R.Hammond
33. J.Hunt
34. A.Klier
35. B.Lancaster
36. D.Lloyd
37. G.Rasch
QUICK STEP
41. S.Chavanel
42. T.Boonen
43. S.De Jongh
44. S.Devolder
45. J.Pineau
46. M.Tosatto
47. M.Velo
LAMPRE
51. A.Ballan
52. M.Bandiera
53. F.Gavazzi
54. D.Loosli
55. D.Righi
56. S.Spilak
57. V.Zagorodny
SAXO BANK
61. S.O'Grady
62. J.Bellis
63. M.Goss
64. M.Ljungqvist
65. M.Mørkøv
66. A.Rasmussen
67. N.Sørensen
KATUSHA
71. O.Freire
72. A.Colom
73. A.Markov
74. G.Mikhailov
75. B.Swift
76. N.Trussov
77. S.Vandenbergh
ASTANA
81. Y.Popovych
82. A.Bazayev
83. R.Kireyev
84. D.Muravyev
85. B.Raimbekov
86. M.Schär
87. A.Zeits
C.EPARGNE
91. P.Lastras
92. A.Amador
93. A.Coyot
94. M.Drujon
95. J.Gutierrez
96. V.Kiryienka
97. L.Sánchez
VACANSOLEIL
101. M.Carrara
102. B.Bozic
103. B.Cooke
104. W.De Vocht
105. M.Marcato
106. B.Traksel
107. L.Westra
SILENCE
111. G.Van Avermaet
112. W.Cretskens
113. M.Elijzen
114. P.Jacobs
115. M.Lloyd
116. J.Roelandts
117. R.Sentjens
F.D. JEUX
121. S.Casar
122. M.Chérel
123. A.Geslin
124. A.Gérard
125. G.Meersman
126. J.Roy
127. W.Sulzberger
LIQUIGAS
131. F.Pellizotti
132. M.Bodnar
133. K.Carlström
134. C.Corioni
135. M.Fischer
136. J.Guarnieri
137. F.Sabatini
BBOX
141. P.Fédrigo
142. Y.Arashiro
143. W.Bonnet
144. S.Chainel
145. Y.Gene
146. R.Martias
147. S.Turgot
RABOBANK
151. N.Nuyens
152. L.Boom
153. B.De Groot
154. D.Kozontchuk
155. S.Langeveld
156. B.Tankink
157. M.Tjallingii
COFIDIS
161. C.Kern
162. A.Blain
163. G.Blot
164. M.Buffaz
165. S.Dumoulin
166. N.Sijmens
167. A.Usov
EUSKALTEL
171. E.Martinez
172. K.Fernandez
173. M.Irizar
174. I.Isasi
175. A.Lafuente
176. R.Pérez
177. P.Urtasun
GARMIN
181. S.Tuft
182. S.Cozza
183. T.Farrar
184. W.Frischkorn
185. T.Lowe
186. C.Meyer
187. K.Patour
LPR
191. D.Pietropolli
192. C.Cucinotta
193. R.Ferrari
194. S.LaganÃ
195. M.Montaguti
196. A.Ongarato
197. A.Spezialetti
SERRAMENTI
201. A.Bertolini
202. M.Belletti
203. R.Bertogliati
204. F.Ginanni
205. A.Loddo
206. L.Mate
207. L.Solari
AG2R
211. L.Mondory
212. J.Arrieta
213. A.Clerc
214. V.Efimkin
215. R.Mandri
216. C.Pineau
217. S.Poulhies
MILRAM
221. G.Ciolek
222. L.Barla
223. M.Eichler
224. R.Förster
225. R.Scholz
226. M.Velits
227. P.Voss
Preview
Well we have a great team here in Australia. Early season form makes this race hard to predict, but we will be looking to be behind Nuyens on that stage up to Willunga in an effort for an overall placement, whilst Langeveld and perhaps Boom could provide alternatives. The other main contenders include Chavanel and Ballan, but I would maybe place my bets on homeboy Gerrans. Watch out for Ciolek, Freire, and the Columbia duo of EBH and Renshaw in the sprints.
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pcm2009fan |
Posted on 04-07-2012 19:40
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Stage 1
Norwood - Mawson Lakes : 140km
Today's break consists of Schar, Klier, Corioni, Isasi, Irizar, Elijzen, Gavazzi and Trussov. They are all brought back with 7km to go but Schar will take the first mountain's jersey
Matthew Goss makes it a fitting start to the season in Australia by winning the sprint and taking the leader's jersey. All Rabo riders make it home intact as planned.
Results
1 | Matthew Goss | TEAM SAXO BANK | 3h39'34 | 2 | Manuel Belletti | SERRAMENTI PVC DIQUIGIOVANNI | s.t. | 3 | William Bonnet | BBOX - BOUYGUES TELECOM | s.t. | 4 | Tyler Farrar | GARMIN - SLIPSTREAM | s.t. | 5 | Tom Boonen | QUICK STEP | s.t. | 6 | Borut Bozic | VACANSOLEIL PRO CYCLING TEAM | s.t. | 7 | Oscar Freire | TEAM KATUSHA | s.t. | 8 | Gerald Ciolek | TEAM MILRAM | s.t. | 9 | Greg Van Avermaet | SILENCE-LOTTO | s.t. | 10 | Ben Swift | TEAM KATUSHA | s.t. |
Picture quality plus layout doesn't look great, ill look into that.
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pcm2009fan |
Posted on 04-07-2012 20:18
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Stage 2
Hahndorf - Stirling : 148km
A more challanging stage, and an uphill finish which we will have to ensure Nuyens is alert to.
The Aussie's are certainly looking to make this tour their own - Adam Hansen rode much of the day alone at the front of the race.
On the final hill Nuyens was well positioned. No sprint trains had formed on such steep slopes and it was unclear as to how the finish would pan out...
...so Nuyens decided to go for it! But although the sprinters were too tired to contest against the puncheurs, Spilak also had the same idea and just pipped Nuyens to the line.
Obviously were gutted for Nick but he showed really good legs today and this sends out a warning to the likes of Ballan and Gerrans plus he moves to 3rd in the GC.
Results
1 Simon Spilak LAMPRE - N.G.C 4h01'06
2 Nick Nuyens RABOBANK s.t.
3 Greg Van Avermaet SILENCE-LOTTO s.t.
4 Luis León Sánchez CAISSE D'EPARGNE s.t.
5 Oscar Freire TEAM KATUSHA s.t.
6 Marco Marcato VACANSOLEIL PRO CYCLING TEAM s.t.
7 Maarten Tjallingii RABOBANK s.t.
8 Alessandro Ballan LAMPRE - N.G.C s.t.
9 Pablo Lastras CAISSE D'EPARGNE s.t.
10 Yaroslav Popovych ASTANA s.t.
GC
1 Matthew Goss TEAM SAXO BANK 7h40'34
2 Simon Spilak LAMPRE - N.G.C s.t.
3 Nick Nuyens RABOBANK + 2
4 Manuel Belletti SERRAMENTI PVC DIQUIGIOVANNI s.t.
5 Nikolai Trussov TEAM KATUSHA + 3
6 Greg Van Avermaet SILENCE-LOTTO + 4
7 William Bonnet BBOX - BOUYGUES TELECOM s.t.
8 Francesco Gavazzi LAMPRE - N.G.C s.t.
9 Oscar Freire TEAM KATUSHA + 6
10 Luis León Sánchez CAISSE D'EPARGNE s.t.
Hopefully I can put a couple more updates out tommorow so see you then!
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sutty68 |
Posted on 04-07-2012 23:52
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 34654
Joined: 22-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Great squad you sent to Australia
And Nuyens showing good form already
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mattie524 |
Posted on 05-07-2012 00:32
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Domestique
Posts: 578
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PCM$: 400.00
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no sprinter? Sorry but that puts me off a bit.
Manager of Team Lamborghini - Monster
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Posted on 23-11-2024 20:21
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sutty68 |
Posted on 05-07-2012 01:52
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 34654
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Who needs a sprinter when Nuyens is showing them how to do it
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pcm2009fan |
Posted on 05-07-2012 09:38
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haha yes Nuyens is a missile once he gets going... which might take a while.
But seriously, I did say this was more about fun than a serious, well-presented story so I understand some people might be put off by it
Besides I just found a "future great" sprinter from Holland, maybe next year could see a change of direction..?
Ill post the next stage in a short while.
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pcm2009fan |
Posted on 05-07-2012 09:45
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Comment
Thanks to bonus seconds Nuyens has slipped down to 6th, but he will be making that up in a couple of days on the "queen" stage. Tommorow we will be conserving energy on another easy flat stage in preperation for the Assault On Willunga.
Results
1 Greg Van Avermaet SILENCE-LOTTO 3h21'40
2 Mark Renshaw TEAM COLUMBIA - HIGH ROAD s.t.
3 Matthew Goss TEAM SAXO BANK s.t.
4 Manuel Belletti SERRAMENTI PVC DIQUIGIOVANNI s.t.
5 Edvald Boasson Hagen TEAM COLUMBIA - HIGH ROAD s.t.
6 Tom Boonen QUICK STEP s.t.
7 Gerald Ciolek TEAM MILRAM s.t.
8 Borut Bozic VACANSOLEIL PRO CYCLING TEAM s.t.
9 Tyler Farrar GARMIN - SLIPSTREAM s.t.
10 Oscar Freire TEAM KATUSHA s.t.
GC
1 Matthew Goss TEAM SAXO BANK 11h02'12
2 Greg Van Avermaet SILENCE-LOTTO s.t.
3 Simon Spilak LAMPRE - N.G.C + 2
4 Manuel Belletti SERRAMENTI PVC DIQUIGIOVANNI + 4
5 Mark Renshaw TEAM COLUMBIA - HIGH ROAD s.t.
6 Nick Nuyens RABOBANK s.t.
7 Nikolai Trussov TEAM KATUSHA + 5
8 William Bonnet BBOX - BOUYGUES TELECOM + 6
9 Francesco Gavazzi LAMPRE - N.G.C s.t.
10 Daniele Righi LAMPRE - N.G.C s.t.
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sutty68 |
Posted on 05-07-2012 13:53
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Tour de France Champion
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Not a great stage for the team today
But Nuyens is still in the mix on the GC
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pcm2009fan |
Posted on 05-07-2012 17:02
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yes well as mattie pointed out not having a sprinter certainly has it's cons, so the best tactic we can do on the flat is to keep quiet in the pack. Maybe in other races where we have less aspirations we can send men in the break and look for KOM points though
Playing the next stage as we speak!
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pcm2009fan |
Posted on 05-07-2012 17:26
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Comment
Our guys did our job well today, particuarly Lars Boom who did a good job of protecting Nuyens today. Expect fireworks tommorow on the race's most difficult stage. We will hope to be at the fore of the race when the display begins, and hope to challange the jersey sitting upon Van Avermaet's shoulders.
Results
1 Edvald Boasson Hagen TEAM COLUMBIA - HIGH ROAD 3h25'45
2 Geraint Thomas BARLOWORLD s.t.
3 Greg Van Avermaet SILENCE-LOTTO s.t.
4 Nico Sijmens COFIDIS, LE CREDIT EN LIGNE s.t.
5 Anthony Geslin FRANÇAISE DES JEUX s.t.
6 Marco Marcato VACANSOLEIL PRO CYCLING TEAM s.t.
7 Tom Boonen QUICK STEP s.t.
8 Matthew Goss TEAM SAXO BANK s.t.
9 Borut Bozic VACANSOLEIL PRO CYCLING TEAM s.t.
10 Manuel Belletti SERRAMENTI PVC DIQUIGIOVANNI s.t.
GC
1 Greg Van Avermaet SILENCE-LOTTO 14h27'55
2 Matthew Goss TEAM SAXO BANK + 2
3 Edvald Boasson Hagen TEAM COLUMBIA - HIGH ROAD + 4
4 Simon Spilak LAMPRE - N.G.C s.t.
5 Jérémy Roy FRANÇAISE DES JEUX + 5
6 Manuel Belletti SERRAMENTI PVC DIQUIGIOVANNI + 6
7 Mark Renshaw TEAM COLUMBIA - HIGH ROAD s.t.
8 Geraint Thomas BARLOWORLD s.t.
9 Nick Nuyens RABOBANK s.t.
10 Murilo Fischer LIQUIGAS + 7
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pcm2009fan |
Posted on 05-07-2012 18:43
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Stage 5
Snapper Point - Willunga : 148km
Comment
It's the "big" one.. our gameplan is simple: protect Nuyens and get him to the foot of the second climb in a position to counter the big names such as Gerrans and Chavanel. Meanwhile Van Avermaet and even Boasson Hagen should definitely not be discounted as contenders in 1st and 3rd place (GC) respectively.
A 15-man break decides to make its mark on the race. Infact as we begin the main climb a few of them are still out in front to complicate matters.
Surprisingly it is EBH who attacks first with Thomas on his wheel. The early attack catches us by surprise but we decide to stay alert to any further moves.
Thankfully, soon Gerrans attacks and Nuyens decides to mark the Australian. Langeveld is feeling good so decides to accampony his leader up the road, but soon drops back.
[picture lost]
Soon we have made our way up to EBH and Thomas with a bunch of other attackers.
Over the top, Vladimir Efimkins from the break is still ahead.. Surprisngly the puncheurs could make little advance on the peleton but Froome makes a late attack at the top which Nuyens must respond to.
Froome and Nuyens are making their way up to Efimkim on the descent and things are looking good for Nick...
...But the big guns have had enough and Nuyens is told through his earpiece that the race leader (Van Avermaet) has attacked behind - a move which the other contenders feel obliged to respond to.
Nuyens is spent from following Froome's attack and with 3km to go these attackers have made there way up to Nuyens and Froome. Van Avermaet and Chavanel are at the back of the gourp.
Spilak and Lastras make a final dash for the line with just over 1km to go! Nuyens deperately tries to follow but he has the yellow jersey on his wheel..
Lastras' late burst proves the decisive one and he holds off Chavanel and a very relieved Van Avermaet to take the stage. Spilak fends off an exhausted Nuyens who must settle for 5th.
Comment
And further misery follows as we hear soon after that despite starting the day ahead of Chavanel and Lastras, the two of them move ahead of him in the GC thanks to the bonus seconds Still a 5th place is a nice reward for Nuyens and we must now look to conserve that on the dangerous flat finale tommorow before we can congratulate him properly.
Results
1 Pablo Lastras CAISSE D'EPARGNE 3h36'05
2 Sylvain Chavanel QUICK STEP s.t.
3 Greg Van Avermaet SILENCE-LOTTO s.t.
4 Simon Spilak LAMPRE - N.G.C s.t.
5 Nick Nuyens RABOBANK s.t.
6 Stuart O'Grady TEAM SAXO BANK + 46
7 Gianni Meersman FRANÇAISE DES JEUX s.t.
8 Chris Froome BARLOWORLD s.t.
9 Edvald Boasson Hagen TEAM COLUMBIA - HIGH ROAD s.t.
10 Vladimir Efimkin AG2R LA MONDIALE s.t.
GC
1 Greg Van Avermaet SILENCE-LOTTO 18h03'58
2 Pablo Lastras CAISSE D'EPARGNE + 6
3 Simon Spilak LAMPRE - N.G.C s.t.
4 Sylvain Chavanel QUICK STEP + 8
5 Nick Nuyens RABOBANK s.t.
6 Matthew Goss TEAM SAXO BANK + 50
7 Edvald Boasson Hagen TEAM COLUMBIA - HIGH ROAD + 52
8 Jérémy Roy FRANÇAISE DES JEUX + 53
9 Mark Renshaw TEAM COLUMBIA - HIGH ROAD + 54
10 Manuel Belletti SERRAMENTI PVC DIQUIGIOVANNI s.t.
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pcm2009fan |
Posted on 05-07-2012 19:43
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no sprinter? Sorry but that puts me off a bit.
Stage 6
Adelaide-Adelaide - 90km
Comment
A simple stage on paper, but I'm sure we're all aware of the dangers of these fast-paced street circuits... Sticking near the front with Nick is our best bet, and we might even try something in the final sprint with him in the smallest offchance he can grab vital bonus seconds. Maybe after his 2nd in stage 2's sprint he might be willing to give it a go, although admittedly that time the finish was a little tougher than 0%..
Kozontchuk decides to go up into the day's break to stretch his legs and gain some TV time, but none of the attackers get far.
5km from the line and we have set up a nice sprint train for Nuyens.. who says you need a sprinter to make things interesting?!
Lars Boom is one of the strongest riders on the flat and he does an incredible leadout for Nuyens as we turn into the final corner.. where on earth are the sprinters???
Ah right there they are. Yep. A certain Tom Boonen takes the sprint in the end and it looks like Nuyens has unfortunately been edged out of the bonus seconds there.
Results
1 Tom Boonen QUICK STEP 2h02'31
2 Gerald Ciolek TEAM MILRAM s.t.
3 Borut Bozic VACANSOLEIL PRO CYCLING TEAM s.t.
4 Manuel Belletti SERRAMENTI PVC DIQUIGIOVANNI s.t.
5 Greg Van Avermaet SILENCE-LOTTO s.t.
6 Nick Nuyens RABOBANK s.t.
7 Tyler Farrar GARMIN - SLIPSTREAM s.t.
8 Matthew Goss TEAM SAXO BANK s.t.
9 Edvald Boasson Hagen TEAM COLUMBIA - HIGH ROAD s.t.
10 Oscar Freire TEAM KATUSHA s.t.
Comment
With that 6th place there and a 2nd place on stage 2 Nuyens certainly confirms himself as one of the fastmen of the peleton in this tour, and can add a neat 5th GC placement to his palmares. Actually make that a 4th place - Nick actually moved ahead of poor old Chavanel in the standings - our efforts seem to have paid off and moved Nick ahead on his average placing or something? Regardless of the technicalities of his "victory" Nick was more than happy to accept a nice 4th place here and the congratulations that came with it on the team bus afterwards.
GC
1 Greg Van Avermaet SILENCE-LOTTO 20h06'29
2 Pablo Lastras CAISSE D'EPARGNE + 6
3 Simon Spilak LAMPRE - N.G.C s.t.
4 Nick Nuyens RABOBANK + 8
5 Sylvain Chavanel QUICK STEP s.t.
6 Matthew Goss TEAM SAXO BANK + 50
7 Edvald Boasson Hagen TEAM COLUMBIA - HIGH ROAD + 52
8 Tom Boonen QUICK STEP s.t.
9 Jérémy Roy FRANÇAISE DES JEUX + 53
10 Manuel Belletti SERRAMENTI PVC DIQUIGIOVANNI + 54
Points
1 Greg Van Avermaet SILENCE-LOTTO 113
2 Matthew Goss TEAM SAXO BANK 71
3 Edvald Boasson Hagen TEAM COLUMBIA - HIGH ROAD 71
Mountain
1 Daniele Righi LAMPRE - N.G.C 4
2 Svein Tuft GARMIN - SLIPSTREAM 3
3 Vladimir Efimkin AG2R LA MONDIALE 2
Youth
1 Greg Van Avermaet SILENCE-LOTTO 20h06'29
2 Simon Spilak LAMPRE - N.G.C + 6
3 Matthew Goss TEAM SAXO BANK + 50
Team
1 RABOBANK 60h21'35
2 QUICK STEP + 0
3 LAMPRE - N.G.C + 0
Look! -That finish also seemed to somehow bolster us up ahead of the other teams to win the teams classification - so combined with our GC 5th I think we can go home quite happy!
Join us next time in the Paris-Nice as we look to "Nick" further accolades with cheap sprinting tactics and prove the pre-season cynacists wrong!!!
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pcm2009fan |
Posted on 05-07-2012 20:54
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Interview
Amongst the post race celebrations in Adelaide, Rabobank Times caught up with the self-proclaimed "Flemish Missile" himself following his astonishing 4th place in the Tour Down Under.
Q. Nick, first of all - what an achievement! How does that 4th place in the rank amongst your palmares?
A. It was incredible! Crossing that finish line in 5th place to deny Chavanel 4th overall tasted so sweet!
Q. Your best yet?
A. Absolutely - every pro rider dreams of such a high placing in this race since they are little, so to see that come true is just... yeah!
The joy was evident as Nick celebrated his TDU 4th place with his wife at the finish line on Tuesday
Q. Was there any love lost between you and Chavanel after taking the placement in - some might say - questionable terms?
A. Chavanel had some words with me after the stage, but I let him know that if you can't match the pace of the Flemish Missile on stages like this you're never going to get anywhere within the pro peleton.
Q. "The Flemish Missile" - catchy! So, after proving your sprinting legs are up and running this season, what are The Missile's main goals this season?
A. Obviously taking the green jersey on the Champs-Elysees is the ultimate goal, but for the time being I'll probably look to build up a little form in those cobbled races in April... uhh the Tour of Flemishland for example..
Q. The Tour of Flanders you mean?
A. Oh yeah sorry. All this "Flemish Missile" hype is making me go loopy...
Q. Ehh I don't remember anyone else mention the "Flemish Missile" before you took up the name yourself, but whatever...
A. ...
Q. Moving on, with a young talented sprinter reportedly being monitered by Rabobank, do you fear for your position as one of the great sprinters not just within your team, but maybe even in the peleton as a whole?
A. *pointing finger at interviewer* You think....! Not a chance... not a chance! *spluttering with laughter*
Q. .........
A. *frothing as his manic laughter continues*
Q. Ok well, we look forward to see you out on the roads in April, Nick, and we will especially wait to see you coming up the Champs-Elysees come July, hopefully in Green!!
A. *Regains composure* Thanks! -hehehe- I can assure you.... oh boy!....... that The Missile won't dissapoint! *Rolling on Floor Laughing*
Hmm...
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