PCM.daily banner
24-05-2022 19:32
PCM.daily
Users Online
· Guests Online: 22

· Members Online: 0

· Total Members: 150,568
· Newest Member: tommy112233
Donate
View Thread
PCM.daily » PCM.daily's Management Game » [Man-Game] General
 Print Thread
Ronde van Nederland Discussion
cunego59
.
Ronde van Nederland
--
Preview

The Ronde van Nederland is a relatively new race on the calendar, now going into its fourth edition. It’s the last PT stage race before the Giro d’Italia, and as such, it’s a good test of form for sprinters and puncheurs that have that on their season schedule, and the last opportunity for some of the others to show themselves for a few weeks.

Profile
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Profiles/mg_nederland.jpg

The course is short but intense. We open with two nominally flat stages, but stage one is especially tricky with a pretty steep final kilometer - we’ve seen puncheurs in the Top 5-10 on that one before. The second stage should be a more straightforward sprint, even with the small hill inside the final 10 kilometers.

The final stage is more suitable for puncheurs, but considering the somewhat easy approach to the finish, punchy sprinters are strong contenders here as well - in 2018 and 2020, when the exact profile was featured as well, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/pum.png Arnaud Demare (who ended up winning the whole thing) and then-Evonik rider pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/evo.png Michael Van Stayen came out on top, respectively. However, last year, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/isa.png John Degenkolb was just barely able to hang on and win the GC after two strong results in the sprints. So, there are a few possible outcomes in play.


Top Sprinters
FLSPACHIRS
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/iso.png Gaviria7683847276
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/fes.png Coquard7384836774
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/isa.png Degenkolb7684816971
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/map.png Ahlstrand7483826773
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/pum.png Demare7382818072
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/hsk.png Grosu7383807370
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/eav.png Van der Lijke7382797671
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/evo.png Eislers7982786778

Most of the cream of the crop of PT sprinting is here. pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/iso.png Gaviria, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/fes.png Coquard, defending champion pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/isa.png Degenkolb and pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/map.png Ahlstrand are probably the best pure sprinters, but the others on this list aren’t far behind.

pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/pum.png Demare and pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/eav.png Van der Lijke obviously stand out for their puncheur abilities and have to be considered for stage three, as does to a slightly lesser extent pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/hsk.png Grosu. pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/evo.png Eislers meanwhile has arguably the biggest motor of any sprint contender, which could help him on all three stages.


Tier II Sprinters
FLSPACHIRS
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/zpc.png Swift7282796667
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/tti.png Samolenkov7481796471
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/min.png Vesely7381806868
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/amc.png Enger7381786973
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/yor.png Cullaigh7380816670
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/fpc.png Kemboi7880806377
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/xr0.png Houle7879787571
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/kng.png Hsu7580796770
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/mol.png Petit7680786572
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/eav.png Holloway7678796774
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/mos.png Bertilsson7379776971

As is often the case, lines between tiers are blurry and to some extent arbitrary. pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/zpc.png Swift might have a case to be considered a top tier sprinter, but his combination of flat, hill and resistance is just a bit worse than those with similar sprint stats in tier one.

In addition, as per usual, the sprinting field is very deep. pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/tti.png Samolenkov, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/min.png Vesely, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/amc.png Enger, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/yor.png Cullaigh and pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/fpc.png Kemboi can all be considered as solid stage win contenders if things break just right for them.

Then there is a slight drop to the second half of this tier. pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/xr0.png Houle stands out due to his strong hill stat, if he’s able to collect a few bonus seconds in the first two days, he’s certainly in play for a top GC result. But it would be a surprise to actually see him win one of those sprints, and the same is arguably true for pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/kng.png Hsu, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/mol.png Petit, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/eav.png Holloway and pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/mos.png Bertilsson. Then again, at this point, it might just be considered a surprise if there are no surprises, so we’ll see what happens.


Puncheurs
FLHISPACRS
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/aeg.png De Bie7384727576
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/iso.png Lutsenko6983728173
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/mos.png Sagan7283737674
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/min.png Hagen7583717671
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/kng.png Mohoric7283677772
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/pum.png Demare7380828172
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/fes.png Koretzky7381717970
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/isa.png Vakoc7181717471
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/yor.png McCarthy7081657475
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/mol.png Waeytens7080667370
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/eav.png Ulissi7579737470
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/fpc.png Turgis7379707778
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/eav.png Gastauer6780657367
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/tti.png Trakhov6879697574
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/hsk.png Gerts7778727080

We also have many top puncheurs in the peloton here, specifically targeting stage three. In terms of pure puncheur skills, there’s a pretty clear Top 5 that includes pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/aeg.png De Bie, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/iso.png Lutsenko, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/mos.png Sagan, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/min.png Hagen and pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/kng.png Mohoric. All of them are pretty quick as well and can be considered threats for stage 1, even if pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/iso.png Lutsenko stands out with his elite acceleration and pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/kng.png Mohoric lags behind in pure sprint speed.

Speaking of pure sprint speed, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/pum.png Demare is the obvious outlier, being listed both here and in the sprinters list, which probably makes him the top favorite overall.

More quick puncheurs include pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/fes.png Koretzky, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/isa.png Vakoc, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/eav.png Ulissi, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/fpc.png Turgis and pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/hsk.png Gerts, who also is sort of the Eislers of the puncheurs with his elite flat-resistance combination thanks to his classics-oriented build.

On the other side of the spectrum, the likes of pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/yor.png McCarthy, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/mol.png Waeytens, pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/eav.png Gastauer and pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Micros/tti.png Trakhov will hope for as selective a final stage as possible, or maybe have to rely on an attack for a top result on day three.


As mentioned earlier, the race is wide open, with many possible outcomes both for individual stages as well as the GC. To conclude, here’s a full overview of all riders involved:

Startlist
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2021/Reports/PT/Nederland/Startlist.jpg
.
 
SotD
Oh man what a startlist. Impressive stuff!

That said, where the F is S. Yates? Possibly one of the best suited races for him in all the calender I'd say.
i.imgur.com/R8WieIm.png

pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2016/manager.png
pcmdaily.com/images/awards/2015/Manmanager.png
pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2016/teamhq.png
 
roturn
Had to come here with De Bie as 3 rd were worth it...but not sure the small bumps are enough to really get rid of sprinters and their bonus seconds...let`s see.

No Groenewegen here to avoid a tactical desaster but well well. Not sure about it at all.
 
Marcovdw
Hagen and Vesely, the two disappointments of the season so far, together in a race where we cannot score points. Watch them suddenly win everything.
Manager of Minions
 
SotD
roturn wrote:
Had to come here with De Bie as 3 rd were worth it...but not sure the small bumps are enough to really get rid of sprinters and their bonus seconds...let`s see.

No Groenewegen here to avoid a tactical desaster but well well. Not sure about it at all.


I went for the exact opposite Pfft

Coquard because I hope the hills are not very hard, AND Koretzky because - Well, screw it! Grin
i.imgur.com/R8WieIm.png

pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2016/manager.png
pcmdaily.com/images/awards/2015/Manmanager.png
pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2016/teamhq.png
 
jandal7
Would be amazing if Houle can repeat his wildcard performance last year of 4th on GC. Hope we're visible in breakaways and he does a decent job in the sprints and GC is all I can really ask for though Smile
30/12/14 - matt17br said "Sutty's birthday is more important than [Jesus' Birthday]"
24/2/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don’t drink famous people.”
22/07/21 - quadsas said "I admire you [jandal] so much as a manager, squad builder and a person"

[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | The Life And Times | [For real doomed] i.imgur.com/c85NSl6.png Xero Racing
[CX] Listerijns & Kiwis

i.imgur.com/PdCbs9I.png
i.imgur.com/RPIlJYr.png
4x i.imgur.com/wM6Wok5.png x4
i.imgur.com/olRsxdu.pngpcmdaily.com/images/mg/Awards2021/funniest21.png
 
knockout
Love the profile of the race as one for the tougher sprinters mostly. This is one of the moments where i miss having Van Stayen anymore for the old Demare vs Van Stayen duels. Ideally Eislers can step in and replace him.

Sick puncheur startlist here. Looks stronger than some proper hilly races Pfft
 
tastasol
Decided to not send our strongest team on paper here, and allocate them to other races instead. With Pedersen winning a stage in Qatar and Wisniowski getting on the podium together with the rest of the team in Copenhagen-Malmo, I don't regret it. So hopefully we can try to be a bit aggressive here. We did very well in the first edition of this race, but we were woeful last year. Serrano could do something on the last stage, and I hope some of our roleurs can do something. Let's see how it goes!

Like SotD, suprised to not see Yates here, but a really strong startlist nevertheless. Should be a fun race to watch, and hopefully we can play an active role.
 
cunego59
So, it turns out I made a bit of a blunder: I thought I had prepared everything for the reports before I travelled for the holidays, but I forgot to include the full results. I could offer you the reports "in time", so tomorrow through friday, with all the screenshots and everything except for the full results list (the Top ~15 of every stage and the final GC are gonna be reported in text form), and then I'd add the full results in about a week or so when my flatmate returns and can access my computer.

Alternatively, I'll wait until then to have everything at once. I suppose there's no real time pressure, the only downside would be that one of the reports would then coincide with the RVV, and some riders would ride twice in one day. Let me know what you prefer.

This does not affect Colombia btw, as those reports are indeed fully prepared.
 
SotD
cunego59 wrote:
So, it turns out I made a bit of a blunder: I thought I had prepared everything for the reports before I travelled for the holidays, but I forgot to include the full results. I could offer you the reports "in time", so tomorrow through friday, with all the screenshots and everything except for the full results list (the Top ~15 of every stage and the final GC are gonna be reported in text form), and then I'd add the full results in about a week or so when my flatmate returns and can access my computer.

Alternatively, I'll wait until then to have everything at once. I suppose there's no real time pressure, the only downside would be that one of the reports would then coincide with the RVV, and some riders would ride twice in one day. Let me know what you prefer.

This does not affect Colombia btw, as those reports are indeed fully prepared.


I'm absolutely fine with a short writeup of the results - but obviously gaps can play a vital role in the results, but assuming those are to some degree handled in the report I'm absolutely fine with getting the reports now and waiting for the ultimate results.

I'm also fine with waiting though, if the above is very time consuming Smile
i.imgur.com/R8WieIm.png

pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2016/manager.png
pcmdaily.com/images/awards/2015/Manmanager.png
pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2016/teamhq.png
 
Ad Bot
Posted on 24-05-2022 19:32
Bot Agent

Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09

IP: None  
tastasol
First of all, thanks to you and the other reports for all the effort, even during a time when many travel for holidays. For my sake it would certainly be fine with the reports now and full results in a week or so, but no need to overload yourself with work when on holiday Smile
 
cunego59
SotD wrote:
I'm absolutely fine with a short writeup of the results - but obviously gaps can play a vital role in the results, but assuming those are to some degree handled in the report I'm absolutely fine with getting the reports now and waiting for the ultimate results.

I'm also fine with waiting though, if the above is very time consuming Smile

To clarify what it would look like with a hypothetical example (no spoilers as it's of course not exactly like this): There might be a Top 15-20 with some gaps which are all reported in text form, but then there's a group of around 25 riders maybe a minute behind the stage winner and a minute ahead of the big peloton, and I can't give you every name that's in there, so you might not know exactly what your depth scoring looks like, or if your leader who has missed the cut is in there (though I would certainly mention if a really big name has fallen even further behind).

All bonus seconds are always included (this goes for any potential bunch sprints that may or may not be happening as well of course), but if there are riders on equal time in the backend of the Top 20 or Top 30, you won't know who's in what place exactly until I post the full results.

This is no additional work as those write-ups are already in the reports anyway.
 
SotD
I am fine with both scenarios :-)
i.imgur.com/R8WieIm.png

pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2016/manager.png
pcmdaily.com/images/awards/2015/Manmanager.png
pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2016/teamhq.png
 
knockout
I'm slightly leaning towards delaying it a week since there will be little PT related racing for the rest of the month if we continue to stick closely to the rest of the schedule (Eritrea and HC-C2 classics basically). Bonus points if the Vlaanderen report would be ready to be posted earlier instead (not meant to pressure anyone there)

Generally i dont think we have to follow the calendar as closely as we do this year.
Spoiler
I think there are actually cases where I'd prefer going against it more e.g. when the calendar is built to create clashes for certain divisions (good thing!), one could split the reports up so that each division has some races going on at most times). Example: Praha and Colombia happening at the same time after a week of no PT related races



But I'm fine with it either way.
 
SportingNonsense
I hope this race works as well in this PCM, especially the final stage which has provided a nice balance between puncheurs and punchy sprinters previously.

It can be a good race for Van der Lijke, but any good race for him can also be an invisible race for him, so we will see.

Since the discussion thread is up, I'd be inclined towards earlier reports, without full results. Knockout makes a good point though about spreading PT reports about.
farm8.staticflickr.com/7458/9357923136_f1e68270f3_n.jpg
 
alexkr00
Last time Gerts and Grosu has a shared leadership it did not end well for us. Hopefully this time it will be better.

I don't have a preference between earlier reports or full reports. Either way is fine by me.
i.imgur.com/S1M3OtV.png
i.imgur.com/wzkfv39.png
i.imgur.com/Uhicj1C.png
i.imgur.com/Ie56lsQ.png
pcmdaily.com/images/mg/Awards2021/avatar21.png
 
cunego59
knockout wrote:
Bonus points if the Vlaanderen report would be ready to be posted earlier instead (not meant to pressure anyone there)

The tricky thing is that I have done the Vlaanderen report, too, which has the same issue Pfft That one should, as it happens, arrive pretty much on time, but can't be moved forward.

I think SN's argument that since the preview is up already, might as well do the reports now, makes sense, and as everyone seems to be fine either way, I posted S1 now. Again, sorry for the slight inconvenience, but we'll get through it Wink
 
SotD
Looking at the finish (I think it was difficult to read how difficult it was from the pictures) I can’t complain with 7th here. Vila was a monster on the course, just like he was in Praha, and Farantakis and Koretzky played the leadout perfectly. I suspect both of them are fairly high in the Stage result too, which could be important for minor points if Stage 3 isn’t too difficult.
i.imgur.com/R8WieIm.png

pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2016/manager.png
pcmdaily.com/images/awards/2015/Manmanager.png
pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2016/teamhq.png
 
knockout
Great start to the race. Eislers proves to be a top sprinter and finished very strong on such a tough finish. Lots of bonus seconds already including the one in the intermediate sprint so he looks set to finish nicely in the gc if he avoids any time losses which should be possible with his res and climbing stats. Fingers crossed.


Good report and without any important time gaps near the front, the lack of full results is nearly invisible Smile
 
Roman
Oh, what a start! Banana

After 3 years of a disappointment with me sending Sagan here again only because he did not really have a better use of the last 3 available days he had - an unexpected win in a sprint. Now if only Sagan can build on this and somehow get home a great result after stage 3, that would be such a superb result from here that we really need after the difficult start of our journey without the legendary Samuel. Grin

Thanks a lot for the report, cunego!
Manager of Moser - Sygic
 
Jump to Forum:
Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Tour of America - Discussion [Cont-Man-Game] General 147 24-05-2022 14:44
Tour of Northern Europe - Discussion [Man-Game] General 21 24-05-2022 09:32
ICL21 - Transfer Discussion Story Games 60 22-05-2022 10:52
Euskal Bizikleta Discussion [Cont-Man-Game] General 40 22-05-2022 08:12
PCM.daily Stat Discussion PCM 21: PCM.daily Projects 132 22-05-2022 07:43
Login
Username

Password



Not a member yet?
Click here to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one here.
Latest content
Screenshots
Chit-Chat
Chit-Chat
PCM06: Funny screenshots
Fantasy Betting
Current bets:
No bets available.
Best gamblers:
bullet nobeer 2,325 PCM$
bullet jaxika 1,700 PCM$
bullet jseadog1 1,652 PCM$
bullet dominox 1,625 PCM$
bullet fighti... 1,505 PCM$

bullet Main Fantasy Betting page
bullet Rankings: Top 100
ManGame Betting
Current bets:
No bets available.
Best gamblers:
bullet Ollfardh 2,800 PCM$
bullet SotD 2,155 PCM$
bullet baseball... 1,936 PCM$
bullet Marcovdw 1,800 PCM$
bullet jseadog1 1,700 PCM$

bullet Main MG Betting page
bullet Get weekly MG PCM$
bullet Rankings: Top 100
Render time: 6.44 seconds