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Mountain stages strategy
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| Intangibil |
Posted on 28-06-2016 21:08
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Junior Rider
Posts: 27
Joined: 21-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I am not sure if I am doing something totally wrong or not, but the exact same playstyle I used in PCM2015 feels impossible in PCM2016.
On mountain stages, it mainly involves the following:
- never lead the race or be aggressive with setting the pace (never use Relay mode)
- always pair riders in a one-protects-another fashion until they are exhausted (as riders get exhausted, I lower their effort and let them recover while updating the pairs with the riders left)
- prioritize using Maintain Position mode as much as possible
- raise effort in increments of 2-3 as riders lose position (with switching back to Maintain Position mode)
- use Effort Cursor mode when riders losing position cannot make up while in Maintain Position mode
- lower effort to 50 or below on descents
To give a context, I played Carrer Mode one full season with a custom team at Pro Continental Level. My riders core for GC races are: S.Reichenbach, S.Morabito, E.Sepulveda, J.Polanc, P.Poljanski, L.Vervaeke.
While implementing the above guidelines, I was able to place 2nd on GC in races like Paris-Nice (S.Reichenbach), Tour de Suisse (S.Reichenbach) and Tour of Poland (S.Reichenbach) and win Liege-Bastogne-Liege (S.Morabito) in PCM2015 on Hard difficulty.
I am currently playing PCM2016 with the same context, Pro Continental team, going for UWT GC races. My riders core are: M.A.Lopez, S.Morabito, E.Sepulveda, J.Polanc, P.Poljanski, L.Vervaeke (S.Reichenbach is injured).
Using the same general guidelines, I find it impossible to keep up with most of the other GC riders. I am not talking about C.Froome level here, I am talking being unable to finish in the top 30 of a stage. Riders seem go exhausted a lot faster, and I am consistently getting dropped in the second part of climbs.
Granted, M.A.Lopez is not on par with S.Reichenbach as GC rider, but it seems to me that the difference is way too much. It may very well be that some core mechanics have changed that I may not be aware of and my playstyle is somehow drastically flawed.
(I did not get into details about rider form/fitness etc, as I do not believe that is the issue. Feel free to consider that almost the same fitness curves where implemented in the two cases described.)
I would sincerely appreciate tips about what I am doing wrong and such. Feel free to give examples or share info on game mechanics.
Thank you.
~ Intangibil |
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| Intangibil |
Posted on 30-06-2016 05:51
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Junior Rider
Posts: 27
Joined: 21-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Really, no replies whatsoever? |
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| ced0072 |
Posted on 30-06-2016 08:17
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Under 23
Posts: 63
Joined: 23-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Hi, I'm just starting with PCM16, coming from PCM12 
I have not tested my mountain tactics yet but I will soon.
Let's say you have at least 3 mountains in the stage:
In PCM12, my 3/4 worth climber riders lead the peloton (relay at 70) during the first of the 3 last climbs while my leader and other best climber are protected by 3rd and 4th best climbers respectively.
In the next climb, 3rd and 4th best climbers take the relay in the front of the peloton at 75. My leader is then protected by the other best climber.
In the final climb, the leader, still protected by the other best climber, uses effort cursor at 80 and that's all... often finishes with a victory or a good ranking.
I'm sure that kind of tactic could work on PCM16, the only thing I need to test is the effort values to use at each of these 3 steps (70 / 75 / 80) as a lot have changed on this since PCM12. |
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| tylerl690 |
Posted on 30-06-2016 17:41
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Under 23
Posts: 50
Joined: 11-01-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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you can ride away from people if you have a high mountain skill using 70 or 75 free effort |
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| Rasmusen |
Posted on 30-06-2016 21:29
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 340
Joined: 25-06-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I understand you play with a lower stat climber, be sure you dont use keep position, because when froom or his friends start to put up the pace you screwed, so keep an eye n your heartbeat, as soon it start to keep up, use dot. then if you find a guys with your pace stay a bit in their wheel. let him get back a bit energy. then use dot again t move up. Its not easy.
Also i tried to atack at the start of a climb, ride your pace, the big guns will come but you might hang on.
i tried this with 79Climber. I still figering out tactics.
be also sure dont lose your yellow bar to far before the finish. |
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| Intangibil |
Posted on 01-07-2016 07:43
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Junior Rider
Posts: 27
Joined: 21-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Rasmusen wrote:
I understand you play with a lower stat climber, be sure you dont use keep position, because when froom or his friends start to put up the pace you screwed, so keep an eye n your heartbeat, as soon it start to keep up, use dot.
So, if I use Keep Position, and they push, my riders tries to keep up, regardless of his effort level? My understanding is that when his effort number blinks to red, it means his effort is not enough to fulfill his command, meaning he will not use more than that exact effort level.
Rasmusen wrote:
then if you find a guys with your pace stay a bit in their wheel. let him get back a bit energy. then use dot again t move up. Its not easy.
So, the only way to get energy back is to use Keep Position behind a rider whose pace allows your rider to use a lower energy level, something like 50-60?
Rasmusen wrote:
be also sure dont lose your yellow bar to far before the finish.
I am not exactly sure what the relationship between the yellow bar, rider attributes and current order is, but, what I am experiencing is my riders do tend to get pretty low yellow bar values towards the end. |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 01-07-2016 10:57
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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When using 'keep position' your rider will not disregard the effort level but he might still use more energy compared to riding at constant speed. Like Rasmusen wrote: Look at the heart rate and react if it goes too high.
The energy (yellow bar) consumption is directly related to the heart rate. A rider will lose energy at high heart rate and recover when riding at low heart rate. If he is protected from the wind (by an own rider or others) the heart rate is lower. Bigger groups give better protection but protection has less effect at slower speeds like in mountains.
Once the yellow bar (and the red bar) are empty your rider will suffer and the speed will drop drastically. I recommend to never fully deplete the yellow bar at the last climb because recovering at low speeds is just no reasonable alternative (your rider will lose more positions at low effort than he gained at too high effort).
One important thing to notice: Make sure that your rider and his helpers start the climbs at the front of the peloton, you don't want to waste energy because of bad positioning. This will also reduce the rubber-band effects (the front riders are speeding up on a flatter road and everybody behind tries to maintain their position wasting energy.) |
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| Intangibil |
Posted on 01-07-2016 14:43
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Junior Rider
Posts: 27
Joined: 21-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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So, basically, I should be a bit more reactive with regards to heart rate.
Another thing I noticed (yesterday, I believe it was a patch or hotfix), is that rider order icons now have different colors (red to orange, to yellow, to green).
Is that some kind of indicator of the effect the order has on the rider? (red being 'bad' and green being 'good' ). |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 01-07-2016 14:44
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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No, that's just to distinguish the order you give to a rider from the one you give to another.
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| Intangibil |
Posted on 01-07-2016 14:52
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Junior Rider
Posts: 27
Joined: 21-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
No, that's just to distinguish the order you give to a rider from the one you give to another.
I understand it being that way for the Protect order (an order that links 2 riders), but why would I need a Keep Position order for a certain rider have a different color than a Keep Position order for another? It only makes sens when the order implies collaboration (pairing riders); not really much use when the order is individual.
Edited by Intangibil on 01-07-2016 15:01
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| Rasmusen |
Posted on 02-07-2016 08:13
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 340
Joined: 25-06-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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When protecting the 2nd order is not active. Lets say maika protect contador
Contador is in keep position maika protects
Put conta on dot maika still protects
Let say you give maika now the order to get water he gets water and after that he again protects conta. Now 2nd orde maika is keep position or dot 80
At the moment you give conta an atack order, maika falls back on the 2nd order. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 22:42
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Bot Agent
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| camouflage |
Posted on 12-07-2016 06:18
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Amateur
Posts: 10
Joined: 08-07-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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Intangibil wrote:
So, basically, I should be a bit more reactive with regards to heart rate.
Another thing I noticed (yesterday, I believe it was a patch or hotfix), is that rider order icons now have different colors (red to orange, to yellow, to green).
Is that some kind of indicator of the effect the order has on the rider? (red being 'bad' and green being 'good' ).
I think thats indicates the team-mates works for their leader. I guess orange for team leader, green for sprinter, red is maybe for best in overall standing. |
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| Deviances |
Posted on 14-09-2016 02:06
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Amateur
Posts: 1
Joined: 25-03-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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Hey everyone, I'm using this post because I'm also experiencing difficulties with the moutain stages :/ I'm not a "pro" but I used to do well in older PCM. But it seems like now I'm getting beaten by riders with lower notes in moutains.
So does anyone have a good/solid strategy in order to have the best result in the moutain stages ? |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 17-09-2016 14:56
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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I think the most important advice is to start the mountain at the front of the peloton and not falling back. Of course your rider should never ride in the wind so protect him or follow other riders. If you cannot keep up with weaker riders either your daily form is very bad or your fitness is low. In those cases, just try to reduce the time loss by riding your own pace to arrive at the finish before your energy runs out. |
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