I'm interested in how the stats can make the riders mirror their real life versions.
For example some sprinters are quick at accelerating with a high top speed but their speed drops off quickly. Others can put out a slightly lower top speed but for a longer period of time. Some climbers ride by launching lots of fast attacks, others will do best by time trialling up the climb at a steady pace.
So some questions, if anyone can answer them, please:
1. Does the Sprint stat govern the top speed of a sprinter rather than anything else?
2. I'm sure I recall reading in the forum that Accel determines how long a rider can sprint for, rather acceleration/rate of change of speed as the name suggests - is this true?
3. Does the Sprint stat have any effect in mountains during attacks?
4. With a database with Froome on higher Res, lower Accel than Contador I've played races as Sky where Contador has attacked and I've had to let him go and use the infamous Sky train and/or Froome at a high non-sprinting pace to eventually catch him and even pass him by 10-20 secs. Is this evidence of a steady pace rider and an attacking rider showing different styles with simple stat differences? Some riders seem simply incapable of shaking off the bunch when attacking, even with having a high climbing stat.
For the classics, it's much more obvious on how to model a rider's style as they're either the type who can sprint (Degenkolb, Sagan) the type who can't (Terpstra, Vandenbergh) or a bit of both (Boonen, Cancellara).
1. Yes this seems to be the case.
2. That used to be the case, I think it changed from PCM 13. Acceleration is now actually acceleration.
3. Interesting question, but I think not. It would be mountain(or a mountain/hill combination depending on the heavyness of the whole stage) defining that I think.
4. Shaking off riders is indeed an effect of the ACC stat(although to be fair, Froome isn't that terrible at accelerations in real life). Although I think that riding solo needs RES as well.
Wouldn't Sprint play a role in any sprint, even at a 5%+- gradient, but instead of flat giving a boost it would be hill/mon/dh? Sounds like something for my tests...
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jandal7 wrote:
Wouldn't Sprint play a role in any sprint, even at a 5%+- gradient, but instead of flat giving a boost it would be hill/mon/dh? Sounds like something for my tests...
Yeah - great idea! Nice.
Jesleyh
01-07-2015 08:41
Let's see.
1. Yes this seems to be the case.
2. That used to be the case, I think it changed from PCM 13. Acceleration is now actually acceleration.
3. Interesting question, but I think not. It would be mountain(or a mountain/hill combination depending on the heavyness of the whole stage) defining that I think.
4. Shaking off riders is indeed an effect of the ACC stat(although to be fair, Froome isn't that terrible at accelerations in real life). Although I think that riding solo needs RES as well.
The Acc stat being set to "actual" acceleration would certainly make sense - maybe I've answered my own question! In that db (I think it was a PCM Focus one) Contador had accel of 80+ something, Froome about 76 I think. When Bert attacked I simply couldn't hold on, yet I could gradually reel him in on the HC climb with Froome's high Res, simply by riding at a high dot value. It took a bit of nerve to let him go, but if I counter attacked, Froome would've blown out and lost the stage big time.
I think the stats determine the speed of a rider in a certain terrain. Let's take a flat 0% gradient track:
The only important stat is obviously the flat value. If you put a rider on 70% effort and dot, he will ride at a certain speed determined by his value. The heart rate always corresponds to the actual effort according to my experience and understanding of the game.
If you have a rider with 80 flat in the scenerio above, he will ride at say 50km/h.
If you order a rider with 60 flat to do the same, he might only be able to ride 44km/h, yet both have the same heart rate, because they use the same effort.
The speed at which the yellow bar decreases is determined by the heart rate and (maybe/probably) the resistance stat.
Now, for different circumstances, different values play a role. I read somewhere that the length of a climb and the gradient determine what other stats (mountain for length and gradient / hill for shorter and steep ascents / also downhill with it being more important the steeper the descent) are important for the speed a rider rides with at a certain effort level. Now it gets tricky: ideally the game takes the actual state of a rider into account: on what kind of climb is he right now, what is the actual angle of ascent/descent. I don't know whether the game works like this or whether it follows a defined number/multiplier in the stage file for the entire stage. Stagemakers should know more about this.
The sprint stat only has an effect if the player is in sprint-mode. Acceleration has an effect if the player is in sprint or in attack mode and determines how much time he needs to hit full speed.
I think you drew the right conclusions, at least I do it the same: I handle riders in the mountains differently depending on their stats. I would never attack with a rider with low acceleration, as his heart rate goes up pretty fast as soon as he is in attack mode but his speed picks up quite slowly (I actually don't attack often anyway, I prefer a steady pace in the mountains). If I had an explosive rider like Sagan on my team, I would attack with him especially since the AI likes to counterattack and therefore can be destroyed rather easily.
Edited by skylax on 02-07-2015 11:40
Cool. Anyone find it difficult to win classics with the non-sprinting classics guys like Terpstra, as they'd not have the acceleration to break from a final group. I did win many a race with Spartacus simply by going high dot and burning riders away, but that was in PCM13
Dee-Jay wrote:
Cool. Anyone find it difficult to win classics with the non-sprinting classics guys like Terpstra, as they'd not have the acceleration to break from a final group. I did win many a race with Spartacus simply by going high dot and burning riders away, but that was in PCM13
I had that problem with my Pro, who had 82 flat and 85 cobble stats, but low sprint ability. I just couldn't get enough separation from other top riders before the finish, and would lose the sprint.
jandal7 wrote:
Wouldn't Sprint play a role in any sprint, even at a 5%+- gradient, but instead of flat giving a boost it would be hill/mon/dh? Sounds like something for my tests...
I believe there is a ratio in the stage editor for which one matters more, the sprinting vs climbing. At least I remember that from a couple of years back.
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Dee-Jay wrote:
Cool. Anyone find it difficult to win classics with the non-sprinting classics guys like Terpstra, as they'd not have the acceleration to break from a final group. I did win many a race with Spartacus simply by going high dot and burning riders away, but that was in PCM13
I had that problem with my Pro, who had 82 flat and 85 cobble stats, but low sprint ability. I just couldn't get enough separation from other top riders before the finish, and would lose the sprint.
That's just it. Realistic you might think, however classics don't really have cobble sections close to the finish, so you can't attack and solo from range. You have to hope that the other contenders are worn out when you go for the break, but does the game still have the collaborative AI where they work as a team to stop your guy winning anything but a sprint?
