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Pro Cycling Manager stat range: 99 vs 85
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| matt17br |
Posted on 30-12-2014 17:47
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Directeur Sportif
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Soooo, in a dark, cold and snowy afternoon me and Jesley didn't know what to do and I don't know why we ended up testing the stat range of Pro Cycling Manager.
I remembered that in PCM 13 I began to do weird kinds of tests to kill time, and especially one catched my attention.
The idea was basically this: is 85 really the maximum stat? As it seems, no, it is just the best stat you can reach in career mode without db editing. Though, you won't even be able to run a career mode that lasts more than 2 seconds 
So, that's it: you can actually play in stage race, classic, and stage mode without crashing (online hasn't been tested yet, but that already crashes itself so it isn't worth a try).
This is db we used for testing (based on the V2 of the Expansion Pack), there are 3286 riders if I'm not mistaken and it's a ladder db with 3 stats ranges: 71; 85 and 99. 1/3 are 71, 1/3 is 85 and 1/3 is 99. The difference between each other is 14 in order to test if actually the time differences are mostly the same.
I'd reccomend to test what happens with the stage Bourg d'Oisans - Glacier Pic d'Lory by NTTHRASH that can be found here: https://pcmdaily.c...d_id=30664
Indeed in a Mountainous time trial with 3000m of gained slope you're gonna have bigger gaps 
This is what happened to me:
In the first screenshot you can see how the gap between the last 99 (Hollenstein) and the first 85 (Marino) is more than 7 minutes, while in the second one the gap betweeen the last 85 (Ista) and the first 71 guy (Petacchi) is more than 6 minutes. So the gaps are mostly the same.
While this is what happened to Jesley in an easier TT, he used 2 guys with all 99's, 2 with all 85's and 2 with all 71's. And that's the outcome with 2 different efforts, 58 in the first screen and 70 in the second one:
Not really a life-depending discovery, but we just wanted to share it with all the other PCMdaily forumites!
Have fun, I'll definitely have
Note that 99 is the highest stat, above that the game will make your riders worse and worse, 250 should be the highest stat you can put BUT not the best one at all.
Edited by matt17br on 30-12-2014 17:53
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 30-12-2014 17:51
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World Champion
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Cool work matt and jesleyh, I tried it myself with 90 and 80 on pcm 14.
Edited by jandal7 on 30-12-2014 18:27
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 30-12-2014 18:17
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Not just Matt, also Jesley
Note that it would cause problems in career, regarding development that is, so it's not an option for career databases to switch to a 50-99 matrix.
It could however be a possibility to experiment with for stage-race or online databases, where progression doesn't make any difference.
It seems that riders that have a stat above the limits always have 1 star potential on that stats. Not a very useful fact to know, but it shows that Cyanide development is truly weird.
Edited by Jesleyh on 30-12-2014 18:32
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 30-12-2014 18:36
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Well you certainly can't naturally train a rider over 85 in a career so 85 is most certainly a career limit on stats. I'd be very interested to see more tests comparing the effects of 86+ stats against other 86+ stats and against the normal 50-85 stat matrix.
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 30-12-2014 18:39
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Sounds interesting
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] Xero Racing
5x x5
2x x2
2x x2 |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 30-12-2014 18:54
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Tour de France Champion
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Well you certainly can't naturally train a rider over 85 in a career so 85 is most certainly a career limit on stats. I'd be very interested to see more tests comparing the effects of 86+ stats against other 86+ stats and against the normal 50-85 stat matrix.
Good to hear, that was exactly what I was just doing.
I gave half of the 99 stats 93 stats and half of the 85 stats 86 stats.
(So 17% 99, 17% 93, 17% 86, 17% 85 and 33% 71).
Now there's the outcome. Only the 4th place has 93 stats, the rest of the Top 20 all has 99 stats. I believe the 93 was someone from the break who held on, so that explains it.
Conclusion is that everything up to at least 99 functions like the normal statmatrix.
Edited by Jesleyh on 30-12-2014 18:54
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 30-12-2014 19:06
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In PCM08 I definitely remember getting a rider to 86 Mountain by using the mountain training camp. It didn't crash the career or anything.
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| polist4ever |
Posted on 01-01-2015 11:32
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Junior Rider
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I played 1 season in PCM13 and 1 seasons in PCM14 with a 99 climber and for me didnt crash the save
What i exactly do is that ... on 10 january i change all the rider stats to that: 70 99 99 70 70 70 70 99 99 70 99 99 99
But in the end i dont recomend to do that because you will kill your satisfaction because you will win all the hill and mountain races even without form (5 or 6)
Edited by polist4ever on 01-01-2015 11:35
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| NTTHRASH |
Posted on 02-01-2015 16:20
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Classics Specialist
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It's a part of the game now? In PCM12 I had to edit the DB to allow upper-range values, then enter said values. That was the whole premise of my DB.
"America. Show a nipple on television and the whole country goes ape-shit." -DubbelDekker
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 02-01-2015 16:26
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valverde321 wrote:
In PCM08 I definitely remember getting a rider to 86 Mountain by using the mountain training camp. It didn't crash the career or anything.
This is true. I'm also pretty sure there's a pic somewhere on this site relating to this phenomenon.
This is fairly interesting stuff here. We already knew that Cyanide development was kind of weird, but not that weird. We also knew that there wasn't an exact limit on the stats, but a limit on stats for carrers. Interesting stuff definetelly matt and Jesleyh. I wonder what can people do with this, especially regarding stories, story game, and even the Man-Game. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 21-11-2024 19:41
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| matt17br |
Posted on 02-01-2015 16:49
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NTTHRASH wrote:
It's a part of the game now? In PCM12 I had to edit the DB to allow upper-range values, then enter said values. That was the whole premise of my DB.
No, you still have to edit the db.
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| NTTHRASH |
Posted on 03-01-2015 16:41
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Classics Specialist
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matt17br wrote:
NTTHRASH wrote:
It's a part of the game now? In PCM12 I had to edit the DB to allow upper-range values, then enter said values. That was the whole premise of my DB.
No, you still have to edit the db.
Ah ok. I did actually make career/stage race work though. Perhaps the new fitness system doesn't allow for the stats to work properly above 85?
"America. Show a nipple on television and the whole country goes ape-shit." -DubbelDekker
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| matt17br |
Posted on 03-01-2015 16:42
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Directeur Sportif
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Well, that's quite normal considering that the top stat is 85, they couldn't think that silly people like us would do this kind of tests
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 03-01-2015 16:51
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
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Miguel98 wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
In PCM08 I definitely remember getting a rider to 86 Mountain by using the mountain training camp. It didn't crash the career or anything.
This is true. I'm also pretty sure there's a pic somewhere on this site relating to this phenomenon.
This is fairly interesting stuff here. We already knew that Cyanide development was kind of weird, but not that weird. We also knew that there wasn't an exact limit on the stats, but a limit on stats for carrers. Interesting stuff definetelly matt and Jesleyh. I wonder what can people do with this, especially regarding stories, story game, and even the Man-Game.
Indeed. I could imagine it could be very interesting for the MG, with all those 85s forming up in the DB. It would need some additional testing I suppose, but it could be interesting.
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| roturn |
Posted on 03-01-2015 17:04
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Jesleyh wrote:
Miguel98 wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
In PCM08 I definitely remember getting a rider to 86 Mountain by using the mountain training camp. It didn't crash the career or anything.
This is true. I'm also pretty sure there's a pic somewhere on this site relating to this phenomenon.
This is fairly interesting stuff here. We already knew that Cyanide development was kind of weird, but not that weird. We also knew that there wasn't an exact limit on the stats, but a limit on stats for carrers. Interesting stuff definetelly matt and Jesleyh. I wonder what can people do with this, especially regarding stories, story game, and even the Man-Game.
Indeed. I could imagine it could be very interesting for the MG, with all those 85s forming up in the DB. It would need some additional testing I suppose, but it could be interesting.
I thought about this as well and this it makes no sense to add anything this related for the Man Game.
We usually switch games every year and just because it is working with the actual version, it`s not said, that it will with future versions.
So what if we add this to make training up to 99 and then a newer PCM only allows 85 again.
Also it would make talents quite useless for at least 7-8 seasons instead of 4 if they can`t be trained for 4 seasons minimum.
Would need far too much changes imo. |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 03-01-2015 17:07
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Yeah, good point, I realised it might not be ideal, but it could be considered.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 20-01-2015 18:11
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Continuing on this, I decided to do a test on the 0-50 and 100+ values.
Hypothesis on this would be that at 100+, the matrix would be reset.
So what I did is play a TT(with everyone on effort 50 so nobody gets tired and influences the result) with riders that all have the same stat values.
2 riders got all 1s, 2 riders got all 50s, 2 riders got all 85s and 2 riders got all 100s.
These were the results:
As you can see, the gaps between 1-50 and 85-100 are both very small. Since the general opinion is that stat differences get higher when the stats are higher(so more difference between 75-85 than 65-75), this would explain the 1-50 smaller gap, but it doesn't explain the small 85-100 gap. Will take a look into that somewhere soon.
But at least it seems the 1-99 matrix is fully working.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 20-01-2015 18:43
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Alright, have to come back to this.
Did this to test it:
After seeing this, I thought that there might be a big gap at 49-50, seeing that 1 and 41 are basically of equal quality.
It seems that behind 50, everything is equal, and the Daily form is all that matters.
Probably still including 50 as well, since I cannot explain the 40-2 finishing higher than the 50-2 & 50-3 in another way.
Furthermore, all that happened is that I got confused.
Conclusion: Don't touch 1-49, it is weird.
Edited by Jesleyh on 20-01-2015 18:44
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