Ollfardh wrote:


I'm not talking about his results, I'm talking about his skills. Of course he knows how to take cobbles and certainly deserves a high stat, but his results would argue he's the best cobbler at the moment, while in my opinion guys like Stybar, Vanmarcke, Vandenbergh, Terpstra etc are all better on the cobbles, but Thomas destroys them on the sections after the cobbles.

fidjim2013 wrote:


I understand what you are saying but those riders unlike thomas are pure classicsmans while thomas is more of an all rounder. He can do everything.

Ollfardh wrote:


Absolutely! That's why I'm saying I'm not a big fan of putting him with the best cobblers. He does deserve a good upgrade in FL and STA in my opinion. And well, I guess MO as well, but that's a different discussion

SportingNonsense wrote:
Is it right to be going beyond final results in a cobbled race, to actual performance on the cobbled sections vs the flat sections, when looking at the Cobbles stat?

While it may be realistic, I've never felt that 'Flat' and 'Cobbles' stat are equally weighted in a cobbled race in game - with the Cobbles stat being more important. So even if Thomas, or whoever, might not be gaining his time specifically on the cobbled sectors, won't a higher cobbled stat be necessary for the game to end up reflecting reality?

Tafiolmo wrote:
At the moment Thomas has this:

Flat- 78
Cobble- 79
Hill- 74
Endurance- 76

I don't see too much wrong with his flat and cobble stats. But he could go to 79 in flat, but that would put him +1 above teammate Stannard and I see Thomas no better than Stannard on the flat. His cobble I'd say is right BUT wait until the next two races.

But I see a problem with his hill stat, because I think Thomas is the best hill climber of the leading cobblers. Stybar has 76 but he's the type of rider that bulldozes like Degenkolb to the top of a short hill, rather than ride them comfortably like Thomas.
Thomas seems to have the best recovery at the top of these climbs which is why he can then put a big effort on the flat in. He also has the best mtn stat of 76 which indicates that he is comfortable climbing.

Endurance needs to go up to match the other big cobblers as well, as he seems to be the freshest out of them all as well.

But we'll see for sure on Tour of Flanders in 6 days.

Tafiolmo wrote:
At the moment Thomas has this:

Flat- 78
Cobble- 79
Hill- 74
Endurance- 76

I don't see too much wrong with his flat and cobble stats. But he could go to 79 in flat, but that would put him +1 above teammate Stannard and I see Thomas no better than Stannard on the flat. His cobble I'd say is right BUT wait until the next two races.

But I see a problem with his hill stat, because I think Thomas is the best hill climber of the leading cobblers. Stybar has 76 but he's the type of rider that bulldozes like Degenkolb to the top of a short hill, rather than ride them comfortably like Thomas.
Thomas seems to have the best recovery at the top of these climbs which is why he can then put a big effort on the flat in. He also has the best mtn stat of 76 which indicates that he is comfortable climbing.

Endurance needs to go up to match the other big cobblers as well, as he seems to be the freshest out of them all as well.

But we'll see for sure on Tour of Flanders in 6 days.

In Jesley DB Thomas is 73 Hill I don't know where you got 74?
But he's definitely more than that in my opinion

TankNL wrote:
to fuel the discussion. My stats matrix provides;

nr	CyclistName	FLA	MOU	HIL	TT	PRO	COB	SPR	ACC	DWN	FTR	STA	RES	REC	POP
1	CANCELLARA	82	69	74	81	83	83	75	73	82	69	79	79	69	81
2	VANMARCKE	80	69	74	66	69	83	75	74	80	75	78	78	70	80
3	TERPSTRA	82	70	72	73	71	83	73	73	82	74	79	79	72	81
4	BOONEN	79	64	70	69	69	82	76	76	79	74	77	77	69	79
5	SAGAN	82	70	79	72	79	81	82	81	82	73	82	80	77	87
6	VAN AVERMAET	79	70	80	70	77	81	76	75	80	79	79	80	72	82
7	STYBAR	79	69	76	66	68	80	73	72	79	75	78	78	71	80
8	VANDENBERGH	78	60	69	58	57	80	70	70	78	66	77	77	65	50
9	DEGENKOLB	80	69	75	69	76	79	82	80	79	73	81	78	74	85
10	BOOM	77	69	72	72	77	79	71	71	78	74	73	77	73	79
11	THOMAS	79	74	74	75	78	79	73	72	80	75	78	77	75	80
12	KRISTOFF	80	69	74	68	71	78	83	81	79	73	82	78	75	85
13	LANGEVELD	76	67	69	69	71	78	69	69	76	73	74	75	70	39
14	STANNARD	77	68	70	70	69	78	70	70	76	74	72	76	70	51
15	PAOLINI	78	69	71	64	57	78	73	71	78	74	77	77	70	74
16	TURGOT	76	64	70	64	69	78	70	70	76	71	73	75	69	36
17	DEMARE	78	69	70	64	70	77	80	79	77	71	77	75	73	81
18	WALLAYS	75	60	70	69	50	77	73	73	74	73	72	74	69	46
19	LEUKEMANS	75	65	77	53	52	77	71	71	76	74	76	77	69	70
20	CHAVANEL	78	72	77	79	78	77	73	72	79	77	77	77	75	81

In the upload for my db, I altered 3 riders, just because of personal preference;

nr	CyclistName	FLA	MOU	HIL	TT	PRO	COB	SPR	ACC	DWN	FTR	STA	RES	REC	POP
3	TERPSTRA	82	70	72	73	71	82	73	73	82	74	79	79	72	81
5	SAGAN	80	70	79	72	79	81	80	81	82	73	82	80	77	87
12	KRISTOFF	80	69	74	68	71	78	82	81	79	73	82	78	75	85

matt17br wrote:
@fidjim, yes but we're discussing PCM.Daily db stats, not Jesgd's
Also, I would advise you to take a look at Tank's thread. That matrix is based on FINAL RESULTS and can't be completely perfect and as good as a person watching a cycling race.

@Flat stat "weight" in cobbled races discussion: taking a look at sta_type_rider, that until PCM 12 affected the average of a certain type of rider, turns out that the flat stat affects the average for the 15%, while cobbles for 70% and endurance for 15%. Given that it shouldn't have changed that much since then, we should base the updates on that

AiZaK wrote:
I think Lobato need a push in cobbles. Actually is 63, and last year fantastic race in Tour de la Région Wallonne and yesterday in Gante Wevelgem was 13th.

What do you think for him in cobbles??? 72?? more?? less??