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Expansion Pack: Stat Discussion
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| ppanther |
Posted on 24-04-2013 00:00
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Domestique
Posts: 475
Joined: 25-12-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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TTspecialist wrote:
Thats not fair putting Andys stats down to 76mo and Ballan is still at 78cob. Not fair at all
Yes, i agree. Even his potential is only 5 now, so he has no chance to develop again.
Gesink has potential 6, while still rated very strong. I think that's also odd, because nobody being near as good as him has such a high potential. Rolland, Pinot, Froome, Contador, Nibali, Schleck, ... all have lower potential.
I think it's a good thing too lower some of the potentials, but if so Gesink is very overrated right now. But yeah i know, many Gesink fanboys here.  |
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 24-04-2013 00:02
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4813
Joined: 18-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Contador, Hesjedal and Evans should have their MO stat lowered, whilst Nibali and Aru should have them boosted.
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 24-04-2013 00:04
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 875
Joined: 17-11-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Andy has been crap since the start of 2012. He got injured and returned for the Vuelta, and now 8 months later he is still crap.
Ballan had a great spring 2012 including 8th in MSR, 3rd in RVV, 3rd in P-R. He was also good in the fall classics, winning a stage in Eneco tour. He then got injured and has been injured since.
The two are uncomparable. Andy has been worse than Cunego for the last season and a half, worse than Basso, worse in fact than 90% of the pro peloton.... |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 27-10-2026 18:26
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 24-04-2013 00:08
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4813
Joined: 18-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Oh and Andy should get a higher potential to make sure his stats restore throughout your career.
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| ppanther |
Posted on 24-04-2013 00:10
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Domestique
Posts: 475
Joined: 25-12-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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ShortsNL wrote:
Andy has been crap since the start of 2012. He got injured and returned for the Vuelta, and now 8 months later he is still crap.
This is simply wrong. He wasn't riding the Vuelta and, according to him, his injury didn't let him train properly until January. And if you compare him to Beloki, you can see he was never the same rider again. But i can live with lowering his stats, but with potential 5 he will never be "good" again and you simply can't say that by now. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 24-04-2013 00:13
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 17109
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 17438.70
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fcancellara wrote:
Contador, Hesjedal and Evans should have their MO stat lowered, whilst Nibali and Aru should have them boosted.
I believe we should wait for the Giro...
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 24-04-2013 00:14
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4813
Joined: 18-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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At least Aru deserves higher than 73MO, he was very strong in Trentino. I'd say 74/75-ish.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 24-04-2013 00:15
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18089
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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ppanther wrote:
ShortsNL wrote:
Andy has been crap since the start of 2012. He got injured and returned for the Vuelta, and now 8 months later he is still crap.
This is simply wrong. He wasn't riding the Vuelta and, according to him, his injury didn't let him train properly until January. And if you compare him to Beloki, you can see he was never the same rider again. But i can live with lowering his stats, but with potential 5 he will never be "good" again and you simply can't say that by now.
Andy has finished something like 3 races since June 2012. He hasn't won a stage since July 2011. He hasn't won a stage race ever.
Give him Potential 6-7 and drop his stats to 71-71.
Currently we are saying he is comparable to Tommy Voeckler... hmmm
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| TTspecialist |
Posted on 24-04-2013 00:26
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 752
Joined: 17-02-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Do whatever you want. I just think that you are wrong. I adapted database already how i think it should look alike. No problem there!
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 24-04-2013 00:27
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 875
Joined: 17-11-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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ppanther wrote:
ShortsNL wrote:
Andy has been crap since the start of 2012. He got injured and returned for the Vuelta, and now 8 months later he is still crap.
This is simply wrong. He wasn't riding the Vuelta and, according to him, his injury didn't let him train properly until January. And if you compare him to Beloki, you can see he was never the same rider again. But i can live with lowering his stats, but with potential 5 he will never be "good" again and you simply can't say that by now.
Memorial Frank Vandenbroucke then. 7 instead of 8 months of racing later, still crap. Not being able to train 'properly' is not a valid excuse for his abandoning, especially since the excuse is coming from mr. Excuses Andy Schleck himself.
You indeed can't say he'll never be good again, but will he ever be able to come close to his 2011 level? I don't really think so.
And before I get accused of only looking at things from one perspective, I too feel like Gesink should have a lower potential as well. Both Andy and Robert will probably never get to the level of let's say, Ryder Hesjedal in the 2012 Giro anymore.
Edited by ShortsNL on 24-04-2013 00:28
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| fickman |
Posted on 24-04-2013 01:01
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Sprinter
Posts: 1615
Joined: 25-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Wow Im not an Andy Schleck fan, but hey this guy "won the Tour in 2010 and was 2 times 2". I learned too deal with the overated Gesink over the Years but this is really to much. I cant see why Gesink who has been crap over the Years in Grank Tours with a 6 place 3 years ago in TDF keeps Grand Tour contender stats while a really Grand Tour contender get this massive drop in his stats. Gesink is never in top form, he gives a damn about every race but his main objectiv (where he manage to perform bad or crash) and as a reward he gets a 6 potencial???
Edited by fickman on 24-04-2013 01:25
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| HijoDelDiablo |
Posted on 24-04-2013 01:04
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Stagiare
Posts: 198
Joined: 19-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I think Andrey Amador deserves 72-73 in TimeTrial after his 2nd and 3rd place on the Tirreno TT. And 67-68 in Cobblestone after his top ten in GW.
Betancur on 77-78 in Hills, Henao the same, I think their made a great ardennaise classics 
And I wouldn't down Andy stats under 80 in Mountain, I trust that he will return to his level.. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 24-04-2013 01:08
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 17109
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 17438.70
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fickman wrote:
Wow Im not an Andy Schleck fan, but hey this guy "won the Tour in 2011 and was 2 times 2". I learned too deal with the overated Gesink over the Years but this is really to much. I cant see why Gesink who has been crap over the Years in Grank Tours with a 6 place 3 years ago in TDF keeps Grand Tour contender stats while a really Grand Tour contender get this massive drop in his stats. Gesink is never in top form, he gives a damn about every race but his main objectiv (where he manage to perform bad or crash) and as a reward he gets a 6 potencial??? Schleck didn't win the Tour in 2011. Evans did. 
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| fickman |
Posted on 24-04-2013 01:25
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Sprinter
Posts: 1615
Joined: 25-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Ups 2010  |
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| NTTHRASH |
Posted on 24-04-2013 02:31
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3111
Joined: 09-09-2012
PCM$: 3840.00
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fickman wrote:
Ups 2010
On exclusion by doping, I may add. Sorry, STEAK doping. And also, Andy seems to be good, until "the" injury aforementioned. Since, he has not proven return from it, but the GTs this year will herald if Andy will have a second coming.
"America. Show a nipple on television and the whole country goes ape-shit." -DubbelDekker
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 24-04-2013 07:16
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 9885
Joined: 01-05-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Andy's stats are perfect, imo.
I'm glad he has been dropped at last.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 24-04-2013 07:47
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World Champion
Posts: 14743
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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fickman wrote:
Wow Im not an Andy Schleck fan, but hey this guy "won the Tour in 2010 and was 2 times 2". I learned too deal with the overated Gesink over the Years but this is really to much. I cant see why Gesink who has been crap over the Years in Grank Tours with a 6 place 3 years ago in TDF keeps Grand Tour contender stats while a really Grand Tour contender get this massive drop in his stats. Gesink is never in top form, he gives a damn about every race but his main objectiv (where he manage to perform bad or crash) and as a reward he gets a 6 potencial???
You contradict yourself. Appearently, you didn't learn to deal with Gesink.
Gesink got 6th in the last GT from Cycling. He was not in a great form there, he had a little bit less preparation than the others(crash recovery) and Vuelta wasn't his peake(Conta and Moreno, and also guys like Rodriguez a bit f.e totally peaked here I think)
Yes, he crashes in his peak races, but since there is no 'crash' skill at the moment, that doesn't say anything about one of the PCM abilities. In that case, Andy should be lower than Gesink, because Gesink actually achieved something the last years. And Gesink got 4th times in the Top 7 of a GT, not just the TdF 2009
If Gesink doesn't crash in the Giro & TdF, I think Gesink can make Top 5 in one of them this year, which is good/okay for 79 MO, don't forget that!!!
And about the potential, don't forget that Gesink is about the youngest rider from the best, say, 10 Stage-racers. I think even Froome is a little bit older(they're about the same)
It would be only logical if Gesink develops, he's only 26(27 if he just had his birthday, idk  )
Edited by Jesleyh on 24-04-2013 07:50
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| TTspecialist |
Posted on 24-04-2013 09:00
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 752
Joined: 17-02-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Jesleyh,stop being fanboy and try to speak honestly. Okay, so no "crash at Dauphine" and "bad training" at PCM, so give Schleck 81! He was winner man! I just cant believe that someone puts Gesink , which whole team is working for him and he still cant get top10 in some nonGT races,what the fuck will he search for at GTs? We will see after Giro, i can say that Schleck is way too underrated,and why Evans is still 78-79 and Schleck not? What that good Evans did to get that stats? Seems like this .cdb was made by fanboys....
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| HijoDelDiablo |
Posted on 24-04-2013 09:10
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Stagiare
Posts: 198
Joined: 19-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Jesleyh wrote:
fickman wrote:
Wow Im not an Andy Schleck fan, but hey this guy "won the Tour in 2010 and was 2 times 2". I learned too deal with the overated Gesink over the Years but this is really to much. I cant see why Gesink who has been crap over the Years in Grank Tours with a 6 place 3 years ago in TDF keeps Grand Tour contender stats while a really Grand Tour contender get this massive drop in his stats. Gesink is never in top form, he gives a damn about every race but his main objectiv (where he manage to perform bad or crash) and as a reward he gets a 6 potencial???
You contradict yourself. Appearently, you didn't learn to deal with Gesink.
Gesink got 6th in the last GT from Cycling. He was not in a great form there, he had a little bit less preparation than the others(crash recovery) and Vuelta wasn't his peake(Conta and Moreno, and also guys like Rodriguez a bit f.e totally peaked here I think)
Yes, he crashes in his peak races, but since there is no 'crash' skill at the moment, that doesn't say anything about one of the PCM abilities. In that case, Andy should be lower than Gesink, because Gesink actually achieved something the last years. And Gesink got 4th times in the Top 7 of a GT, not just the TdF 2009
If Gesink doesn't crash in the Giro & TdF, I think Gesink can make Top 5 in one of them this year, which is good/okay for 79 MO, don't forget that!!!
And about the potential, don't forget that Gesink is about the youngest rider from the best, say, 10 Stage-racers. I think even Froome is a little bit older(they're about the same)
It would be only logical if Gesink develops, he's only 26(27 if he just had his birthday, idk )
Sorry but Gesink has finished on 6th position behind Dani Moreno and Froome (without form). Dani Moreno was a Purito team mate so he worked for Purito.. And Gesink has finished over 12 minutes of Contador..
He finished 3 times on the top ten of vuelta.. but a lot of riders can make this..
Andy has finished on the 2nd place in 2009, 2010 and 2011 in the tour, but I think that he was de best climber in 2010 and 2011 but he was really obsessed with Alberto and he forgot Cadel Evans  I think his Mountain stat can't down more than 79-80. Remember that he got a big injury and he is recovering his level.. |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 24-04-2013 09:11
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World Champion
Posts: 14743
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I try to speak honestly, seriously.
I'm not even really a Gesink fanboy, I dislike his personality.
And about the Schleck 'bad training so 81' thing, that's something completely else. He isn't able to finish races the last two seasons. Gesink dÃd do that, and even got decent results.
If Gesink ruins the Tour & Giro this year(preferable because of his abilities, not of a crash), you're totally right, and Gesink should be lowered. But for now, its okay.
And it's not like I want Schleck on 70 on something, his achievements a few ears ago aren't nothing, but stats have to reflect a bit what Cyclists can do at the moment, with past results weighing a lot. So Schleck about 77/78 sounds fine for me(I dunno what he got in the stats update, btw)
And I agree with you about Evans, tbh.
You talk like I made the .cdb file. Well, I didn't, I only optimised some stats for Dutch and Belgian CT teams, which isn't even in the stat update yet btw
And Alakagom is not a Gesink fanboy
Come on, just live with Gesink's stats for now, and start complaining about him again at the end of July
@Hijo Moreno is the only guy with a lower/equal MO than Gesink who finished higher than Gesink in the Vuelta GC.
Add the form Moreno had, and Gesink didn't, and I don't see why you are complaining
Helper role doesn't help, but isn't always a good excuse.
Moreno had top-form though.
Edited by Jesleyh on 24-04-2013 09:19
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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