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TdF'13 Stage 18 - Gap to Alpe-d'Huez (July 18)
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:33
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Roman wrote:
It's good that I didn't have time to watch this stage, as I would be really angry with the way like Kreuziger had to work for Contador once again.......
Kreuziger was dropped before Contador 
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:34
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TimoCycling wrote:
Pellizotti2 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
Lol Movistar is one bad team when it comes to tactics...
What exactly do you think they should've done differently?
To me, it looks like the stage played out incredibly well for them.
Well when they rode on the flat is was clearly pointless, as the win was clearly out of reach and it looked to me like they were going to try and get a win for Quintana.
By doing so they didn't gave Froome time to eat. And Froome didn't eat and cracked
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| Ad Bot |
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:34
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Roman wrote:
It's good that I didn't have time to watch this stage, as I would be really angry with the way like Kreuziger had to work for Contador once again.......
I agree, Kreuziger seems better than Contador but lost a lot of energy trying to escape. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:34
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
Lol Movistar is one bad team when it comes to tactics...
What exactly do you think they should've done differently?
To me, it looks like the stage played out incredibly well for them.
Well, to me they should have paced the peloton the last 20-40 kms before the first ascent of the Alp, keeping the breakaway at 6.00 with riders as Rojas and Erviti, as Quintana along with Froome clearly being the best climbers, now joined by Rodriguez. And a stage win in the mountains and especially at the Alp would have been a massive win, but unfortunately, as Rolf Sørensen also said - commentator at the danish TV2 - they were too late |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:40
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TimoCycling wrote:
Pellizotti2 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
Lol Movistar is one bad team when it comes to tactics...
What exactly do you think they should've done differently?
To me, it looks like the stage played out incredibly well for them.
Well when they rode on the flat is was clearly pointless, as the win was clearly out of reach and it looked to me like they were going to try and get a win for Quintana. Also they helped the yellow jersey when Contador and Kreuziger tried to escape. They should've let Froome and his team do the work.
They were trying to get Quintana onto the podium/into 2nd overall. How hard is it for people to realise this.
Also, if only Valverde hadn't broken his wheel.  He'd have a good 45 second gap over Contador.
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:42
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valverde321 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
Pellizotti2 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
Lol Movistar is one bad team when it comes to tactics...
What exactly do you think they should've done differently?
To me, it looks like the stage played out incredibly well for them.
Well when they rode on the flat is was clearly pointless, as the win was clearly out of reach and it looked to me like they were going to try and get a win for Quintana. Also they helped the yellow jersey when Contador and Kreuziger tried to escape. They should've let Froome and his team do the work.
They were trying to get Quintana onto the podium/into 2nd overall. How hard is it for people to realise this.
Also, if only Valverde hadn't broken his wheel. He'd have a good 45 second gap over Contador.
That doesn't explain the riding on the flat, that was clearly to get the breakaway. |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:43
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Roman wrote:
It's good that I didn't have time to watch this stage, as I would be really angry with the way like Kreuziger had to work for Contador once again.......
do you noticed that he also get droped early |
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| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:45
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Ok, so I've heard it actually is Froome getting the 20 sec penalty, which is totally ridiculous. Rules are rules. Porte made the illegal pickup, so he should get the penalty.
If your going to bend them then either don't punish them at all since it didn't break the spirit of the rule (Which isnt there to make people bonk, but to stop dangerous car driving/people drafting cars in the finish) or give him a meaningful bonk penalty of 2mins if you want to make the rule something to "make the race interesting" by randomly bonking people at the end if they forget to load up enough.
Giving a 20 second penalty to Froome is an entirely empty gesture to try and keep everyone happy. |
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:45
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4 different methods for Quintana's performance (hope the first is the most accurate...):
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:48
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BritPCMFan wrote:
Ok, so I've heard it actually is Froome getting the 20 sec penalty, which is totally ridiculous. Rules are rules. Porte made the illegal pickup, so he should get the penalty.
If your going to bend them then either don't punish them at all since it didn't break the spirit of the rule (Which isnt there to make people bonk, but to stop dangerous car driving/people drafting cars in the finish) or give him a meaningful bonk penalty of 2mins if you want to make the rule something to "make the race interesting" by randomly bonking people at the end if they forget to load up enough.
Giving a 20 second penalty to Froome is an entirely empty gesture to try and keep everyone happy.
It's the Tour they can do what they want. They knew they were breaking the rules they made the choice (fair enough think I'd do it too), obviously Froome benefitted, 20 seconds seems fairly insignificant in the long run, I'm moving on 
Edited by ianrussell on 18-07-2013 17:50
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| Chons07 |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:48
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BritPCMFan wrote:
Ok, so I've heard it actually is Froome getting the 20 sec penalty, which is totally ridiculous. Rules are rules. Porte made the illegal pickup, so he should get the penalty.
If your going to bend them then either don't punish them at all since it didn't break the spirit of the rule (Which isnt there to make people bonk, but to stop dangerous car driving/people drafting cars in the finish) or give him a meaningful bonk penalty of 2mins if you want to make the rule something to "make the race interesting" by randomly bonking people at the end if they forget to load up enough.
Giving a 20 second penalty to Froome is an entirely empty gesture to try and keep everyone happy.
The fact that this isn't the first time Sky broke feeding rules this tour probably played a strong part in this. It was also clear that Sky felt arrogant enough to keep Froome away from time penalties by sending Porte back. This is just as bad imo |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:50
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valverde321 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
Pellizotti2 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
Lol Movistar is one bad team when it comes to tactics...
What exactly do you think they should've done differently?
To me, it looks like the stage played out incredibly well for them.
Well when they rode on the flat is was clearly pointless, as the win was clearly out of reach and it looked to me like they were going to try and get a win for Quintana. Also they helped the yellow jersey when Contador and Kreuziger tried to escape. They should've let Froome and his team do the work.
They were trying to get Quintana onto the podium/into 2nd overall. How hard is it for people to realise this.
Also, if only Valverde hadn't broken his wheel. He'd have a good 45 second gap over Contador.
Exactly, a very good possibility for 2-3 overall. Shame. Especially since the Belkin guys cant cant keep up from the 2 first weeks. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:52
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TimoCycling wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
Pellizotti2 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
Lol Movistar is one bad team when it comes to tactics...
What exactly do you think they should've done differently?
To me, it looks like the stage played out incredibly well for them.
Well when they rode on the flat is was clearly pointless, as the win was clearly out of reach and it looked to me like they were going to try and get a win for Quintana. Also they helped the yellow jersey when Contador and Kreuziger tried to escape. They should've let Froome and his team do the work.
They were trying to get Quintana onto the podium/into 2nd overall. How hard is it for people to realise this.
Also, if only Valverde hadn't broken his wheel. He'd have a good 45 second gap over Contador.
That doesn't explain the riding on the flat, that was clearly to get the breakaway.
... and what's so odd about that? Clearly, there was a possibility to catch them and Quintana was the best uphill. Cant see what youre complaining about |
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:53
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:53
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TimoCycling wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
Pellizotti2 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
Lol Movistar is one bad team when it comes to tactics...
What exactly do you think they should've done differently?
To me, it looks like the stage played out incredibly well for them.
Well when they rode on the flat is was clearly pointless, as the win was clearly out of reach and it looked to me like they were going to try and get a win for Quintana. Also they helped the yellow jersey when Contador and Kreuziger tried to escape. They should've let Froome and his team do the work.
They were trying to get Quintana onto the podium/into 2nd overall. How hard is it for people to realise this.
Also, if only Valverde hadn't broken his wheel. He'd have a good 45 second gap over Contador.
That doesn't explain the riding on the flat, that was clearly to get the breakaway.
Theres nothing wrong with riding hard just before a climb. It sometimes reduces the chances of big attacks from the bottom of the climb.
Also, so what if they were going for the win? It wasn't pointless, I think the gap went down very quick, and it became reachable if it had kept going down at the same rate it was. Secondly, I think the plan was for Valverde to go for the stage, as he was the first Movistar rider to make a move, but Froome made a move too soon after Valverde's.
Since you're Dutch what about Belkin now though? Ruins Valverde's chances, and it turns out, they barely have a legitimate podium contender anyway.  That should seem like a waste as well then?
Edited by valverde321 on 18-07-2013 17:55
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| Biathlon |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:55
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Conta needs to get back with Bruyneel 
Words to live by
"What would Lance do?"
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:56
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I'm not talking about that echelon stage anymore, we won't agree anyways. And 7 minutes in 25km was never reachable, and they only rode 2mins away on the flat so no, not reachable. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:58
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TimoCycling wrote:
I'm not talking about that echelon stage anymore, we won't agree anyways. And 7 minutes in 25km was never reachable, and they only rode 2mins away on the flat so no, not reachable.
Of course it wasnt out of reach. Would you stop yourself, please? Seems like youre just pissed that Belkin chokes when it really matters |
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| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:59
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Chons07 wrote:
BritPCMFan wrote:
Ok, so I've heard it actually is Froome getting the 20 sec penalty, which is totally ridiculous. Rules are rules. Porte made the illegal pickup, so he should get the penalty.
If your going to bend them then either don't punish them at all since it didn't break the spirit of the rule (Which isnt there to make people bonk, but to stop dangerous car driving/people drafting cars in the finish) or give him a meaningful bonk penalty of 2mins if you want to make the rule something to "make the race interesting" by randomly bonking people at the end if they forget to load up enough.
Giving a 20 second penalty to Froome is an entirely empty gesture to try and keep everyone happy.
The fact that this isn't the first time Sky broke feeding rules this tour probably played a strong part in this. It was also clear that Sky felt arrogant enough to keep Froome away from time penalties by sending Porte back. This is just as bad imo
Then do it properly. That was my point. Also, its not arrogance its just playing the rulebook. Everyone will play the rulebook when they need too.
The rule was never brought in to cause people to bonk, it was to keep them safe and stop them drafting. Hence in a way, everyone complaining is playing the rulebook.
The funny thing about this whole situation is that, I am 99% sure it should have been worse. I think Froome was faking a mechanical to get the car up to get food on the quiet rather then actually calling for food. Porte didn't realise, asked whats the problem and figured it would be easier for him to just obviously take the penalty.
Edited by BritPCMFan on 18-07-2013 18:00
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 18-07-2013 17:59
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Riis123 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
I'm not talking about that echelon stage anymore, we won't agree anyways. And 7 minutes in 25km was never reachable, and they only rode 2mins away on the flat so no, not reachable.
Of course it wasnt out of reach. Would you stop yourself, please? Seems like youre just pissed that Belkin chokes when it really matters
No, i'm not pissed at all, this is where they should be and it's a pity they couldn't continue it, but their riding has impressed me so far.
And how can you say it's reachable with TVG and Riblon in front? Come on... |
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