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ICL15 - General Discussion | Riders Development
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 17-11-2014 10:48
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
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Thieves! Filthy little thieves! They stole our precious!
But hang on, when do we know if out steals worked? Cause those might cause a big gap in the budget.
Edited by Ollfardh on 17-11-2014 11:03
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 17-11-2014 19:36
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
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Ollfardh wrote:
But hang on, when do we know if out steals worked? Cause those might cause a big gap in the budget.
Well,Navardauskas stays with Liberty Seguros. 
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Bikex |
Posted on 17-11-2014 21:28
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Team Leader
Posts: 7255
Joined: 25-08-2012
PCM$: 600.00
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It's not possible to reveal the results of the steals before the renewals are done
I'm away until Friday now so I can't give you reponses for your renewals until then.
Edited by Bikex on 17-11-2014 21:29
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| The Rider |
Posted on 19-11-2014 20:42
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4543
Joined: 29-02-2012
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1. After thinking it over I am not a fan of those steals. Main reason: You have allowed people with very few posts to join, someone new could have put in a crazy high bid on a rider and then shortly disappear, potentially ruining it for the active guys.
2. The renewal system looked to be very well thought out, with a few small tweaks there will be no need for steals, as stifling wages for the top riders should prevent hoarding of the best.
3. When will the research packages, from last season, be available to use?  |
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| knockout |
Posted on 19-11-2014 21:10
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7735
Joined: 21-12-2010
PCM$: 400.00
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The Rider wrote:
1. After thinking it over I am not a fan of those steals. Main reason: You have allowed people with very few posts to join, someone new could have put in a crazy high bid on a rider and then shortly disappear, potentially ruining it for the active guys.
2. The renewal system looked to be very well thought out, with a few small tweaks there will be no need for steals, as stifling wages for the top riders should prevent hoarding of the best.
3. When will the research packages, from last season, be available to use?
1. For future seasons I would only allow existing teams to try to steal. Beside that reason The Rider stated I also dislike that new teams have so much freedom of wage that they can overbid every existing wage - even of guys like Froome - while that should be impossible for (new) CT teams.
2. The renewal system was great. (Although last year's wage could have been a bit more important for the new requested wage).
Steals are a decent idea but i would limit it further to only one or two attempted steals per team. But let us see the results first before discussing whether this should be reused for the next season. If only one or two steals in total were done we should scrap the idea.
The advantage of the steals is that smaller teams can grow quicklier so that there should be a larger rotation at the top of the ranking - at least in theory.
(Reading the last sentence: I should be more against the idea  )
3. Did not noticed until now but: Should not we have used the mediators by now? Or will that come in effect after the "normal renewal part" has ended as a discount to the wage of a rider?
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| Silvio Herklotz |
Posted on 19-11-2014 21:29
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1246
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knockout wrote:
The Rider wrote:
1. After thinking it over I am not a fan of those steals. Main reason: You have allowed people with very few posts to join, someone new could have put in a crazy high bid on a rider and then shortly disappear, potentially ruining it for the active guys.
2. The renewal system looked to be very well thought out, with a few small tweaks there will be no need for steals, as stifling wages for the top riders should prevent hoarding of the best.
3. When will the research packages, from last season, be available to use?
1. For future seasons I would only allow existing teams to try to steal. Beside that reason The Rider stated I also dislike that new teams have so much freedom of wage that they can overbid every existing wage - even of guys like Froome - while that should be impossible for (new) CT teams.
2. The renewal system was great. (Although last year's wage could have been a bit more important for the new requested wage).
Steals are a decent idea but i would limit it further to only one or two attempted steals per team. But let us see the results first before discussing whether this should be reused for the next season. If only one or two steals in total were done we should scrap the idea.
The advantage of the steals is that smaller teams can grow quicklier so that there should be a larger rotation at the top of the ranking - at least in theory.
(Reading the last sentence: I should be more against the idea )
3. Did not noticed until now but: Should not we have used the mediators by now? Or will that come in effect after the "normal renewal part" has ended as a discount to the wage of a rider?
I support all of that, but let's face it we can also just take those steals out of the next season's transfers. Because it just increases the wages of the riders which you got cheap. Remember last year everybody, when there was a big discussion about overpaid riders? When a big rider with a super-high wage was less interesting than a little less good rider on a perfect wage? When we paid money to the other to compensate weaker wages from the other party?
I found that system very fund and it was kind of the whole spirit. With steals all the good well-paid riders are getting increased wages, not because anybody really wants to steal them, but because people want to try and up the wage. You basically destroy the system of that wage-struggle and take away the fun.
That's why I didn't like it from the beginning. On my example, nobody tried a steal on Froome or Kwiatkowski [correction: Nizzolo], the riders you would have thought somebody would really like on his team. However, I got a steal on Kristoff, who is also nice, so that I won't let him go but his good wage is destroyed for me. That, from my point of view, is proof that the whole steal system will not make people get the riders they would like for the team and therefore enforce rotation, but will just destroy the whole fun system of good/bad-wages.. (I'd really like to know how many good riders changed teams and how many just got their wages upped)
Edited by Silvio Herklotz on 19-11-2014 23:37
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 07:55
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 19-11-2014 22:14
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World Champion
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Silvio Herklotz wrote:
On my example, nobody tried a steal on Froome or Kwiatkowski.
I must be mistaken then, because I'm pretty sure I placed a bid on Kwiatkowski. and I'm also pretty sure that he considered it 
edit: stop ignoring me :'(
Edited by SSJ2Luigi on 19-11-2014 22:15
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| Silvio Herklotz |
Posted on 19-11-2014 22:19
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1246
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SSJ2Luigi wrote:
Silvio Herklotz wrote:
On my example, nobody tried a steal on Froome or Kwiatkowski.
I must be mistaken then, because I'm pretty sure I placed a bid on Kwiatkowski. and I'm also pretty sure that he considered it
edit: stop ignoring me :'(
Damn, sorry, I meant Nozzolo. Really sorry I misremembered
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 19-11-2014 22:23
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World Champion
Posts: 11971
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Silvio Herklotz wrote:
SSJ2Luigi wrote:
Silvio Herklotz wrote:
On my example, nobody tried a steal on Froome or Kwiatkowski.
I must be mistaken then, because I'm pretty sure I placed a bid on Kwiatkowski. and I'm also pretty sure that he considered it
edit: stop ignoring me :'(
Damn, sorry, I meant Nozzolo. Really sorry I misremembered
well I should have known because well you know
SSJ2Luigi wrote:
Silvio Herklotz wrote:
That somebody tried to steal Kwiat didn't hurt so much as you bid waaaay too less on him, stupid stealer! 
 well nothing ventured, nothing gained |
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| Smowz |
Posted on 20-11-2014 16:34
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Team Leader
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I think the word 'steal' is a little bit misleading really. Actually as the riders are all on fixed term contracts it is more like an 'outside offer'.
As a noob, I quite liked the idea of attempting to bid on contracted riders. Why not really?
That said I was sensible and only went for riders I realistically wanted for my team and that would not break the bank. I can see how some may think the worst and that some new manager may make unrealistic bids, but I guess that is where BikeX can come in a veto any stupid stuff like that.
To be honest a lot of the complaints from existing managers sound a little like sour grapes, if you don't want to pay increased wage let the rider go and get a new one at a better wage?
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| Shonak |
Posted on 20-11-2014 21:29
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
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I think Bikex has put enough thought into the "steal" system in order to allow people to have a solid way of getting a rider by paying bigger sums. If you want a rider or you want to keep him, you gotta pay for it. Simples. I looked through some steal offers, nothing extraordinary. 1095 for Gilbert to sign instantly, that's like... nothing considering the season he had honestly.
Also, people havn't misused the system. At least I havn't seen any outrageous bids. Smowz said it pretty good: it's an outside offer for a rider and I think it adds another layer to the complex, thorougly planned transfer & signing period in ICL.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Bikex |
Posted on 21-11-2014 12:15
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Team Leader
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Smowz and Shonak are completely right with everything they say.
Especially pointed at Silvio Herklotz. You should know that I'll jump in if the wages are about to get to high. I remember you bidding at the beginning 3000 on a british-kenyan stage racer last season. So if someone who can't really get an idea on how high wages should be would have made a crazy bid I would have asked them rethink their bid. That's only hypothetic as there was no team who made bids like that. The highest one was 1170 for Gilbert.
There was noone who only made bids to increase the wage of a rider for another team. The teams that tried steals on Gazprom riders both made it on one that would have fitted perfectly in their team. Of course it's more tempting to try a steal a rider with a rather low wage, but I don't see the problem if the wage of a rider that's more popular goes up, imo that's quite realistic.
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| Silvio Herklotz |
Posted on 21-11-2014 14:00
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Protected Rider
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Well, first of all, I really had no idea of wages when the game started 
However, my point is not exactly that people don't want to get the riders they try to steal and please don't say I would only argue that way because I am biased since Kristoff's wage increased. I just meant that wage differences are equaled out - not because people are abusing the system, but because it is a direct consequence of the steal system.
Of course, when you step in if somebody makes ridiculous steal offers, that makes it better, but I just liked the wage-struggle-system a lot and I'm kinda sad that it won't be existing anymore as all the wages will be equaled. But if I'm the only one who thinks like this, I'll be ok with it...
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| OZrocker |
Posted on 21-11-2014 14:35
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Protected Rider
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FWIW, I think bikex is right. The more I think about it, it's pretty unrealistic to keep basically all the riders in a WT squad from one year to another. Admittedly, as a continental team with plenty of free riders of interest and a decent budget, this doesn't really affect me but the steal system does seem to be implemented quite nicely and balances out that all of your riders are potentially prepared to stay at the team (depending on salaries obviously).
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| Silvio Herklotz |
Posted on 24-11-2014 17:38
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@bikex: how is it going with the renewals and when are we gonna start the next round? So excited.. 
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| Bikex |
Posted on 24-11-2014 17:43
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Team Leader
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Silvio Herklotz wrote:
@bikex: how is it going with the renewals and when are we gonna start the next round? So excited..
They are about to finish tomorrow (maybe even today) and I'll have some time on wednesday so the next round will be then (if not earlier). |
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| The Rider |
Posted on 25-11-2014 19:03
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4543
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Looking forward to the next step, I reckon people have had more than enough time for the renewals now.
Bikex - Are you going to be producing another calendar thread?
Any news on the potential of ICL getting its own sub section, story games section is getting a bit crowded now? |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 25-11-2014 19:10
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
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The Rider wrote:
Any news on the potential of ICL getting its own sub section, story games section is getting a bit crowded now?
Well it's certainly not gonna happen any time soon. EPIC is more likely to get one, but it won't. Full stop.
ICL has the Sticky for important announcements/files/whatever Bikex wants to use it for. Doesn't need more than that.
Although yes i would like to expand the Story Games section at some stage there are other site things being worked on.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 25-11-2014 19:29
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
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Pffft, Man Game has 12 section on its own
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Bikex |
Posted on 26-11-2014 15:34
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Team Leader
Posts: 7255
Joined: 25-08-2012
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I had some weird issues with my computer so I'm not sure if I can finish the files for the first round of transfers already today, sorry for slowing the game even more down now. So probably this has to wait till Friday, as I don't have much time tomorrow.
I'll however open a ICL15 - Teams thread now. |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
