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News in March
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-03-2013 08:57
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valverde321 wrote:
I think not only is it performance enhancing, but also a masking agent. It helps lose weight as well as oxygen intake for asthma patients I think.
No rider is stupid enough to take performance enhancing drugs, because they will get caught......funny it still happens then.
Yes and the cases you bring up about clenbuterol in sports, where very widespread. Many people tested positive at a time so it was deduced that it actually came from food. As far as I know, Contador was the only one to test positive for clenbuterol in his team, and the Tour de France for that matter, making it more unlikely that it was food.
Correct.
Also, it's likely it was an echo positive. From the plasticizers found in his sample it's clear he had a blood transfusion during the Tour - which itself is doping.
In other words, he took the clenbuterol pre-tour to lose weight - even at the time journalists were commenting that his performance improvement from Dauphiné to Tour was unnatural - had the blood taken out at the time, then when he re-infused it during the Tour the clenbuterol went back in and he tested positive.
Same way Landis tested positive in 2006.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 09-03-2013 08:59
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Bikex wrote:
I think clenbuterol is not performance enhancing
If you think it that must be true.
If you think it it's not a fact or something proven, because it's an opinion. And opinions are like a*******...
Thankfully there's that obscure hobby of some named science which can go a little bit beyond opinions and says that clenbuterol is performance enhancing.
Bikex wrote: and the clenbuterol found in Contadors blood was just as much that it can be found.
Yeah, he was allowed zero and was caught with less than what could be found in the previously available tests. Still he was allowed zero and was caught with some. Which makes it a positive test no matter how you look at it.
Bikex wrote:I actually believe him, that he didn't took the clenbuterol on purpose because I don't think he is that stupid to take a drug that can be found and isn't performance enhancing.
I think (I'm entitled to have an opinion after all) that EPO is not performance enhancing. No rider would be stupid enough to take something that is not performance enhancing. All those riders caught with EPO have thus been unfairly treated.
Same logic as yours. Flawed logic.
Bikex wrote:After a trip in China the entire German table tennis team had clenbuterol in their blood. They were found innocent, Contador wasn't, I think just because it is cycling and the justices wanted to show a sign that they not let everything through after Armstrong etc.
How about the fact that Contador miserably failed to prove how clenbuterol could ever make its way into his body ?
In China it's used to help cattle grow more flesh, so it's logical that eating local beef meat can result in a positive. But in Contador's case there's no explanation like that.
How about that one ?
Clenbuterol is a steroid and helps losing weight. It has a very short detection time, but its effects last quite a long while. Usually it is taken in December or January intensive altitude training sessions, preferably on islands that are difficult to reach for UCI or WADA controllers.
Those moments of the season are also those when blood is extracted from riders who'll perform blood transfusions later in the season.
Bad timing resulted in some clenbuterol remaining in Contador's blood at the time his blood was extracted and stored in a small plastic bag.
During the Tour de France they can't do massive 500 ml transfusions during every rest day any more, because of the bio passport, it'd mess with blood values too much. So they do 150 ml ones (4 % of the total blood), but more frequently (every other day or so).
What happened when Contador got his January blood injected again ? He tested positive for a very tiny amount of clenbuterol. Bummer. He had not even taken it during that Tour de France. And some plasticizers were found too. How did they get there if he had no injection ? Those particles are too big to make their way into blood through the digestive system.
edit : Zabel'ed
Edited by Aquarius on 09-03-2013 09:02
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Posted on 25-11-2024 13:17
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 09-03-2013 09:01
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issoisso wrote:
In other words, he took the clenbuterol pre-tour to lose weight - even at the time journalists were commenting that his performance improvement from Dauphiné to Tour was unnatural - had the blood taken out at the time, then when he re-infused it during the Tour the clenbuterol went back in and he tested positive.
I reckon clenbuterol is rather a January product. If you need to lose weight and gain muscles come the Dauphiné you're very late on schedule for a Tour de France peak (I bet Ullrich would have done that, but not Contardor). |
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| ppanther |
Posted on 09-03-2013 09:14
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Bikex wrote:
I think clenbuterol is not performance enhancing and the clenbuterol found in Contadors blood was just as much that it can be found.
Clenbuterol is a β2 agonist with some structural and pharmacological similarities to epinephrine and salbutamol, but its effects are more potent and longer-lasting as a stimulant and thermogenic drug. It causes an increase in aerobic capacity, central nervous system stimulation, and an increase in blood pressure and oxygen transportation. It increases the rate at which body fat is metabolized while increasing the body's BMR. It is commonly used for smooth muscle-relaxant properties. This means it is a bronchodilator and tocolytic.
Source: wikipedia.com
So yes, its performance enhancing. |
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| Bikex |
Posted on 09-03-2013 09:36
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Okay you convinced me should have informed myself about it a little more and should not have trusted on what I have heard  |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 09-03-2013 10:45
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Not really "news" but I stumbled upon the list of fastest ascends of Alpe d'Huez, and comments if they doped or not. Damn...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpe_d%2...ez_ascents |
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 10:47
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World Champion
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From top 25, only Samu seems to be the cleaner. |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 09-03-2013 12:02
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Miguel98 wrote:
From top 25, only Samu seems to be the cleaner.
Nah. Lucho should ask for his record back. 
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 09-03-2013 12:19
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I believe that table is not reliable for guys like Coppi because the measurement point and the road within the ski resort may have changed.
Also, many riders from the 2004 TT are left out of the table. Moncoutié managed 40 or 41 minutes that day.
When you see Hinault did 48 minutes, at his peak he'd be crushed by the thirty best French climbers nowadays. Yet he never miss an opportunity to go on a rant about how they're lazy, don't train enough or hard enough, etc. Moron.
Where's my 1h15'15" in 2006 on that table, btw. ?  |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-03-2013 12:23
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[quote]Aquarius wrote:
I believe that table is not reliable for guys like Coppi because the measurement point and the road within the ski resort may have changed.
Also, many riders from the 2004 TT are left out of the table. Moncoutié managed 40 or 41 minutes that day./quote]
Not really fair to compare a TT up just a climb with a time done after a 200km stage over many cols
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 09-03-2013 13:06
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I was making different points, I should have made it clearer.
First one was that the table is not complete, as shown by Moncoutié 2004 not being in (among others).
Second was that Hinault is a moron because dozens of French guys nowadays can climb better than Hinault did in his days. Of course he'd have achieved better than 48:00 on a climbing TT à la 2004, and Moncoutié never managed to climb it that fast on a normal stage. |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 09-03-2013 13:26
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Aquarius wrote:
I believe that table is not reliable for guys like Coppi because the measurement point and the road within the ski resort may have changed.
Also, many riders from the 2004 TT are left out of the table. Moncoutié managed 40 or 41 minutes that day.
When you see Hinault did 48 minutes, at his peak he'd be crushed by the thirty best French climbers nowadays. Yet he never miss an opportunity to go on a rant about how they're lazy, don't train enough or hard enough, etc. Moron.
Where's my 1h15'15" in 2006 on that table, btw. ?
Just wait a couple of years. With all those ancient doping cases being solved now, you'll be right up there!  Though my dad had 53 or something in his time without doping  |
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 09-03-2013 14:00
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Ian Butler wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
I believe that table is not reliable for guys like Coppi because the measurement point and the road within the ski resort may have changed.
Also, many riders from the 2004 TT are left out of the table. Moncoutié managed 40 or 41 minutes that day.
When you see Hinault did 48 minutes, at his peak he'd be crushed by the thirty best French climbers nowadays. Yet he never miss an opportunity to go on a rant about how they're lazy, don't train enough or hard enough, etc. Moron.
Where's my 1h15'15" in 2006 on that table, btw. ?
Just wait a couple of years. With all those ancient doping cases being solved now, you'll be right up there! Though my dad had 53 or something in his time without doping
If your dad can do 53' without doping, it must be possible for a professional climber to do 43' without doping. See, they aren't all doped.
Edited by fosforgasXIII on 09-03-2013 14:01
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 14:01
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
I believe that table is not reliable for guys like Coppi because the measurement point and the road within the ski resort may have changed.
Also, many riders from the 2004 TT are left out of the table. Moncoutié managed 40 or 41 minutes that day.
When you see Hinault did 48 minutes, at his peak he'd be crushed by the thirty best French climbers nowadays. Yet he never miss an opportunity to go on a rant about how they're lazy, don't train enough or hard enough, etc. Moron.
Where's my 1h15'15" in 2006 on that table, btw. ?
Just wait a couple of years. With all those ancient doping cases being solved now, you'll be right up there! Though my dad had 53 or something in his time without doping
If your dad can do 53' without doping, it must be possible for a professianal to do 43' without doping. See, they aren't all doped.
How do you know your dad wasn't doping?
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 10-03-2013 09:56
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baseballlover312 wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
I believe that table is not reliable for guys like Coppi because the measurement point and the road within the ski resort may have changed.
Also, many riders from the 2004 TT are left out of the table. Moncoutié managed 40 or 41 minutes that day.
When you see Hinault did 48 minutes, at his peak he'd be crushed by the thirty best French climbers nowadays. Yet he never miss an opportunity to go on a rant about how they're lazy, don't train enough or hard enough, etc. Moron.
Where's my 1h15'15" in 2006 on that table, btw. ?
Just wait a couple of years. With all those ancient doping cases being solved now, you'll be right up there! Though my dad had 53 or something in his time without doping
If your dad can do 53' without doping, it must be possible for a professianal to do 43' without doping. See, they aren't all doped.
How do you know your dad wasn't doping?
Because he was a major sporting talent and he should've gone pro but his dad wouldn't let him. (for example, when he was 16 years old, he ran 5km in 16 minutes, also a nice time)
And, because he's my dad. I know him, he's no Armstrong. He's intelligent, so he doesn't screw around with chemicals |
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| dienblad |
Posted on 10-03-2013 10:02
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Ian Butler wrote:
And, because he's my dad. I know him, he's no Armstrong. He's intelligent, so he doesn't screw around with chemicals
So thought Michael Boogerd's 8-year-old son
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| issoisso |
Posted on 10-03-2013 10:10
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Ian Butler wrote:my dad had 53 or something in his time without doping
Better than Froome a few years ago. Get him on marginal gains and he'll be winning everything in sight.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 10-03-2013 10:22
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dienblad wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
And, because he's my dad. I know him, he's no Armstrong. He's intelligent, so he doesn't screw around with chemicals
So thought Michael Boogerd's 8-year-old son
True, but in all fairness, not all people are alike, I know my father and I'm not an 8-year old kid
issoisso wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:my dad had 53 or something in his time without doping
Better than Froome a few years ago. Get him on marginal gains and he'll be winning everything in sight.
Yeah but he did his top time just form the foot, not with 200km racing before the climb. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 10-03-2013 10:56
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Posts: 22918
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No Bouhanni for MSR.
Shame, his climbing ability is very Freire-like, he'd be a contender.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 11-03-2013 20:50
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Laurent Jalabert is in hospital at this time, undergoing several surgery operations to his arms and legs, as he's suffering from many fractures after being hit by a car whilst training today.
His life is not at stake reports say. |
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