|
Le Tour de France 2014 - Stage 10 - Mulhouse - La Planche des Belles Filles
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 00:52
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Jacdk |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:13
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 910
Joined: 20-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
valverde321 wrote:
I wouldn't be against giving him a 13 day timeout
Why not a 13month or 13year?
I love people getting this emotional over a disagreement. |
| |
|
|
| admirschleck |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:15
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6690
Joined: 11-10-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Yeah, I, for once, agree with you Jacdk. Let's give you 13 year timeout! Would be the best option, I think.
|
| |
|
|
| gotlandrules |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:20
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1358
Joined: 07-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
alexkr00 wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
alexkr00 wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
for me winning 3 tours is great but its not "history in the making" great.
Of course it's not. It's very common to see a rider put his name in the list of winners of all 3 Grand Tours.
Right and is that because no one can or because the top riders all set their goal for Tour De France.
You dont need to respond that was incase you haven't heard it before a rhetorical question.
Do you even know what a rhetorical question is?
Seriously, can't someone ban this guy already?
Yes, please someone. |
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:20
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
valverde321 wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
Biggest disappointment to me is Valverde, what about you guys? I'm talking about big GC-contenders ofc. Van den Broeck aswell by the way  .
Ruben: what a classy comment! If Valverde had the legs that Nibali got, Im sure we would see him up the slopes. Unfortunetely he hadn't. You cant seriously blame him for that. And its not like Mollema is the most aggressive rider either when speaking of wheelsucking, is it?
Valverde is a bit of a wheelsucker tbf. He usually just sits in the group and sprints for the line (he was the bonus seconds king, before they got rid of that rule).
Who isnt a wheelsucker then? The absolute best GC-guys arent (Nibali, Conta, Quintana and Froome) but that stems from them being superier to the rest and thus are 'allowed' to attack. You can more or less categorize the rest of the GC_guys like wheelsuckers, simply because they cant rider any faster.
About the bonus secs, you are right. But isnt that ackknowdleding your strenghts more so than it is to be a wheelsucker? Rodriguez is more or less the same story, only difference being that he is better uphill (when iinshape) than Valverde and thus can sprint for 1-2 kms from the finish line and distance the rest.
My point just it, I dont get why ppl categorize riders as wheelsuckers, just because they simply cant ride faster and desperately tries so simply just follow. Sure, they could attack, but what would mean they would blow up and lose even more than they would on a stage today. Not exactly wise.
Regarding Valverdes 'bad luck' in the Tour. He was flying in 2005 and could potentially get a top-5 that year (he was at 5th but was forced to retire due to pain in his knees, as far as i remember). He won the first mountain finish ahead of Lance.
In 2006, he was almost regarded as the biggest favourite after Basso, Ullrich and Vinokourov didnt attend after a fantastic year where with a double in the Ardennes and other very fine results, leading the Pro Tour. He crashed on one of the first stages. That was his chance to win a Tour.
2007 and 2008, he wasnt that great and wasnt forced out, crashing or anything like that. He was one of the best in the Alps in 2007 (he was 2nd after the Alps when Rasmussen caught him on the ITT), but then he somehow cracked in the last part of the race. I think he ended like 5th or 6th or something like that. Same story in 2008, lost bunch of time in the Pyrenees (on the stage to Hautcam) and was one of the best in the Alps. In those two years he simply wasnt consistent.
He didnt ride in 2009 (due to the Tour going into Italy) and 2010 and 2011 due to his penalty.
In 2012, he was on his way back. He was unlucky of the foot of the Planche Bes Filles and lost lots of time and wasnt at any point a real contender at all. He won a stage to Peyresourde (or whatever they called the summit), but finished way down. Quite similar to Rodriguez this year, preparing for the Vuelta, even though the wanted to ride GC from the start.
In 2013, he had been 3 or 4 (not sure) if not for the stage that Cavendish won in the crosswinds where he lost 10 minutes. He was actually pretty strong, but unable to follow the absolute best at any point. Probably his most consistent Tour, even though he lost that time.
-I can be mistaken as I havent doublechecked or anything like that, but purely writing this from my memories as he is the rider I have followed the most. |
| |
|
|
| Jacdk |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:21
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 910
Joined: 20-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
admirschleck wrote:
Yeah, I, for once, agree with you Jacdk. Let's give you 13 year timeout! Would be the best option, I think.
And people wonder why the forums are death for the most part. |
| |
|
|
| Stromeon |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:24
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Jacdk wrote:
Stromeon wrote:
You have a bizarre outlook on life. The whole point is that you aren't annoying in the first place, not that I'm the one to blame for having to sift through your stream of barely tangible consciousness. It's a bit like declaring war on someone and then criticizing them for trying to defend themselves, what else do you expect they're going to do?
I'd quite like to know what your criteria for a rider who creates history is, since in your current definition of a rider who wins three tours not being worthy enough of historical significance you seem to be ruling out people like Gaul, LeMond, Fignon and Bobet who I would probably consider people who were ever so slightly significant in the history of the sport, but I won't as I don't really want to carry on feeding the troll, which as I know from past experience never turns out well.
Are you being serious?
Because im having a hard time taking your nonsense serious and particular your idea that i have to agree with you or else i am "declaring war"
Again feel free to call it history in the making, opposite you i am not demanding that you agree with me.
But again let me point that i agree that it is great and all that Nibali "wins" the tour and have won the giro and vuelta. But when its won not because you're the absolute best, but because you are just better than plan B for most teams it has to be a hollow win.
And please dont respond if you feel it hard to avoid the personal attacks.
Dat rage tho 
Ever heard of something called a simile?
Anyway, I'm not 'demanding that you agree with me', instead just trying to offer my opinion whilst constructively pointing out what I believe are the flaws in your opinion/argument, instead of rubbishing it as 'nonsense' as you are.
|
| |
|
|
| gotlandrules |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:24
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1358
Joined: 07-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Jacdk wrote:
admirschleck wrote:
Yeah, I, for once, agree with you Jacdk. Let's give you 13 year timeout! Would be the best option, I think.
And people wonder why the forums are death for the most part.
I'd rather have a "death" forum then a forum with someone like you in it. |
| |
|
|
| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:26
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7702
Joined: 24-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Anddd thanks to this argument we passed the Arenberg stage in terms of pages! Keep rolling guys and youll beat Giro Week 2 thread |
| |
|
|
| Ian Butler |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:32
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
Guys, please keep it decent. A discussion like that won't serve any use. Either discuss this further between yourselves through PMs, or keep yourself to a decent cycling discussion here.
For those who don't know how to behave at a forum, some easy ground rules:
- don't make an argument personal
- no aggression
- everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Respect that
Edited by Ian Butler on 14-07-2014 19:33
|
| |
|
|
| valverde321 |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:33
|
World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
Biggest disappointment to me is Valverde, what about you guys? I'm talking about big GC-contenders ofc. Van den Broeck aswell by the way .
Ruben: what a classy comment! If Valverde had the legs that Nibali got, Im sure we would see him up the slopes. Unfortunetely he hadn't. You cant seriously blame him for that. And its not like Mollema is the most aggressive rider either when speaking of wheelsucking, is it?
Valverde is a bit of a wheelsucker tbf. He usually just sits in the group and sprints for the line (he was the bonus seconds king, before they got rid of that rule).
Who isnt a wheelsucker then? The absolute best GC-guys arent (Nibali, Conta, Quintana and Froome) but that stems from them being superier to the rest and thus are 'allowed' to attack. You can more or less categorize the rest of the GC_guys like wheelsuckers, simply because they cant rider any faster.
About the bonus secs, you are right. But isnt that ackknowdleding your strenghts more so than it is to be a wheelsucker? Rodriguez is more or less the same story, only difference being that he is better uphill (when iinshape) than Valverde and thus can sprint for 1-2 kms from the finish line and distance the rest.
My point just it, I dont get why ppl categorize riders as wheelsuckers, just because they simply cant ride faster and desperately tries so simply just follow. Sure, they could attack, but what would mean they would blow up and lose even more than they would on a stage today. Not exactly wise.
Regarding Valverdes 'bad luck' in the Tour. He was flying in 2005 and could potentially get a top-5 that year (he was at 5th but was forced to retire due to pain in his knees, as far as i remember). He won the first mountain finish ahead of Lance.
In 2006, he was almost regarded as the biggest favourite after Basso, Ullrich and Vinokourov didnt attend after a fantastic year where with a double in the Ardennes and other very fine results, leading the Pro Tour. He crashed on one of the first stages. That was his chance to win a Tour.
2007 and 2008, he wasnt that great and wasnt forced out, crashing or anything like that. He was one of the best in the Alps in 2007 (he was 2nd after the Alps when Rasmussen caught him on the ITT), but then he somehow cracked in the last part of the race. I think he ended like 5th or 6th or something like that. Same story in 2008, lost bunch of time in the Pyrenees (on the stage to Hautcam) and was one of the best in the Alps. In those two years he simply wasnt consistent.
He didnt ride in 2009 (due to the Tour going into Italy) and 2010 and 2011 due to his penalty.
In 2012, he was on his way back. He was unlucky of the foot of the Planche Bes Filles and lost lots of time and wasnt at any point a real contender at all. He won a stage to Peyresourde (or whatever they called the summit), but finished way down. Quite similar to Rodriguez this year, preparing for the Vuelta, even though the wanted to ride GC from the start.
In 2013, he had been 3 or 4 (not sure) if not for the stage that Cavendish won in the crosswinds where he lost 10 minutes. He was actually pretty strong, but unable to follow the absolute best at any point. Probably his most consistent Tour, even though he lost that time.
-I can be mistaken as I havent doublechecked or anything like that, but purely writing this from my memories as he is the rider I have followed the most.
I agree with you for the most part. I was just saying ruben hasn't exactly pulled something out of thin air about Valv. Valv sprinting at the end is indeed playing to his strengths.
And yeah, all of that is correct. I've followed him the most as well, although only since 2008 the most, but I've watched his other races now. 2012 his stage win was awesome, beating Lance was special too though.
|
| |
|
|
| Shonak |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:47
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
|
Valverde beating Lance was one of the best things in this sport I have experienced. Man, I was all ups until he dropped out. Back then, it was only a question of time until he'd win le Tour for me. But well, times are changing and I'm still glad for that Vuelta win of his.
Hm, about Nibali's possible triple: I think Jacdk has actually a valid point. Nibali is/was riding at all three GTs against sub-par competition if I recall correctly. Now that doesn't dimish the feat in the history books, but neither does the triple put him on the same level as the other guys who have accomplished it, most recently Contador - at least not for me. But yes, history in the making of course, but so is every win on every sunday history for someone.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
|
| |
|
|
| Jacdk |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:53
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 910
Joined: 20-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
Stromeon wrote:
Dat rage tho
Ever heard of something called a simile?
Anyway, I'm not 'demanding that you agree with me', instead just trying to offer my opinion whilst constructively pointing out what I believe are the flaws in your opinion/argument, instead of rubbishing it as 'nonsense' as you are.
What rage? oh you mean the others, well you cant blame them, fan
But yeps i know what a smiley  <----- See
Oh, and thank you so much for giving out constructive criticism.
I particular like that you think its a flaw that i dont consider winning a Tour when everyone who could compete with you are either out by crash or not starting. The greatest thing in cycling or History in the making (well everything is kinda history in the making, but you get my point)
It reminds me of FIFA and them giving the golden ball to Messi, amazing right but when you only win it because the leaders are more corrupt than a famous guy called Berlusconi, well then i don't think i need to say anything more.
Edited by Jacdk on 14-07-2014 20:03
|
| |
|
|
| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:56
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7702
Joined: 24-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
|
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 14-07-2014 19:58
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
I mean, potentially he can still win this year (if Nibali abandons or have a seriously bad day), but even then, he would still have to beat Porte and those guys he rode along at the Belles Filles. It wont be easy, but Im sure he also would be content with a podium. I would be as well.
But as I said, 2006 was the year if he realistically was to win the Tour as a result of the weak field and Valverde being at his best, allthough it had 2 long ITTs. Gettin nostalgic now. 
Edit: But its all good. I have found my boy(s) on the same team, so I'll have someone to root for in the future as well. Hopefully they will perform better in July than Valverde who most of the times has left me disappointed, lol.
Edited by Riis123 on 14-07-2014 20:05
|
| |
|
|
| Squire |
Posted on 14-07-2014 20:22
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1404
Joined: 24-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Being a Valverde fan is a rather frustrating thing nowadays. It seems as if he's lost some of that killer instinct after his ban. He's usually happy with a podium in big races. He's more consistent, but less clinical.
I agree that 2006 was his big chance. Imagine having THAT Pereiro as your domestique.
For this Tour, I hope he's peaking in the 3rd week, but it doesn't usually work that way with Valverde. He's either fading or consistent throughout. Let's hope he's tried something new. Not riding the Dauphiné or Suisse is interesting though.
|
| |
|
|
| TimoCycling |
Posted on 14-07-2014 20:42
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1765
Joined: 27-08-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Kirchen_75 wrote:
Awesome guy, he is truly an awesome guy. |
| |
|
|
| Atlantius |
Posted on 14-07-2014 20:43
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6795
Joined: 21-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
deek12345 wrote:
deek12345 wrote:
so how long does a fractured tibia keep you out for ?is that end of season
bump 
Depends on the complexity of the fracture. Guess we'll just have to wait and see until more details are revealed.
|
| |
|
|
| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 14-07-2014 20:48
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
alexkr00 wrote:
Not really. Valverde doesn't have exactly what you'd call a good record when it comes to the Tour 
he is like Menchov vol.2. Not the same man at tour...at least so far. I believe he will make to the podium after all. Wheelsucker or not..he has been smart so far. |
| |
|
|
| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 14-07-2014 20:50
|
World Champion
Posts: 11971
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
when Rasmussen caught him on the ITT
wait what? are you saying that Michael Rasmussen overtook somebody in a time trail? did that really happen? please tell me that I misunderstood.
|
| |
|
|
| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 14-07-2014 20:54
|
World Champion
Posts: 11971
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
lol at Eddy Planckaert. in a dutch cycling talkshow, they compare the Dutch cyclist and Belgium cyclist. he said "well we're going to come back with Van den Broeck and (akward silence) uuuh (another akward silence) yeah with Van den broeck"
|
| |
|
