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The Difficult Topics
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 19-02-2013 09:05
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World Champion
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I never said i am against multiculturalism.
I only raised the question, especially for people living in GB as i met the "problem" there when living there for two years (in London and Norwich). The article was just an entree to a discussion, which unfortunately did not come, instead i was only laught on, because i am so stupid to believe DailyMail. (which i dont). It seems to me they actually dont have the opinion on the matter, so they just insult.
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| Strydz |
Posted on 19-02-2013 09:21
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kumazan wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
You see, one article linked and one paragraph written and i am soon jumped on as the man hiding behind democracy and nationalism, painted as some sort of new Hitler. That is the reason why it is so hard to speak about this topic, because i always find someone screaming Raciiiiist!
So this is my last word on the topic, because nobody is obviously willing to listen what i want to say, instead all read what they want behind my words.
I think i get how baseball feels here most of the time.
Part of the problem here is that all you did was to post a ridiculous article, and to say you're against multiculturalism, but you didn't explain your position, or what your alternative is, so people are forced to, as you say, read behind your words.
I have to agree with what kumazan has said.
Don't stop posting avin it is good to start a discussion, the only thing I suggest is to explain your side when you orinally post then the responses might not be as negative as some have been. I like hearing the opposite view to what I think but it should be explained well and not broad statements.
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| kumazan |
Posted on 19-02-2013 09:22
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Team Leader
Posts: 6662
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
How can one think that all the modern multiculture tendencies are right, when reading something like this :
Well I interpreted this as you being against multiculturalism, and possibly many others did as well.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
I only raised the question, especially for people living in GB as i met the "problem" there when living there for two years (in London and Norwich). The article was just an entree to a discussion, which unfortunately did not come, instead i was only laught on, because i am so stupid to believe DailyMail. (which i dont). It seems to me they actually dont have the opinion on the matter, so they just insult.
Well you got a couple of answers supporting multiculturalism and aknowledging that some problems stem from it (make it three if you want cause that's exactly my position). But right after them you called yourself a racist and insisted in leaving the topic. 
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 19-02-2013 11:57
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Ian Butler wrote:
1. People don't want to share their wealth with people who are worse off. Immigrants tend to be supported by the state. (here, anyways)
Can you actually give any sources and stats to back that up? It's just I've never seen any and had assumed it was hollow political rhetoric... |
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| Crommy |
Posted on 19-02-2013 12:01
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World Champion
Posts: 10018
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
You see, one article linked and one paragraph written and i am soon jumped on as the man hiding behind democracy and nationalism, painted as some sort of new Hitler. That is the reason why it is so hard to speak about this topic, because i always find someone screaming Raciiiiist!
So this is my last word on the topic, because nobody is obviously willing to listen what i want to say, instead all read what they want behind my words.
I think i get how baseball feels here most of the time.
This is ridiculous. In this thread, the only reason it seems hard to have a discussion is you keep on accusing us of calling you racist. None of us have.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 19-02-2013 12:11
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
1. People don't want to share their wealth with people who are worse off. Immigrants tend to be supported by the state. (here, anyways)
Can you actually give any sources and stats to back that up? It's just I've never seen any and had assumed it was hollow political rhetoric...
That makes sense if you consider non-skilled immigrants, they tend to be poorer than the average population, thus in welfare states they probably get more support from the state, based on their wealth, not their (original) nationality though.
What people doing those claims conveniently forget though, is that they're so many more customers or potential workers, so they create growth too. |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 19-02-2013 12:14
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I was misunderstood. The general idea is that immigrants suck the state dry. There are those who live of the state, but there are also "normal" inhabitants who take advantage of welfare. There are many, many immigrants who work hard etc. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 21:10
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 19-02-2013 12:17
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Even those who "suck it dry", where do they put the money ?
Under their mattress ? Unlikely.
Back in their home country ? Unlikely.
Back into the economy ? Most likely. Then if the state commercial balance is more or less even, that's no big deal... |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 19-02-2013 14:40
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No expert on it or something, but I fear much money goes into stolen goods... not sure, though. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 19-02-2013 21:52
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Ian Butler wrote:
I was misunderstood. The general idea is that immigrants suck the state dry. There are those who live of the state, but there are also "normal" inhabitants who take advantage of welfare. There are many, many immigrants who work hard etc.
Taking advantage of welfare is good?
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 19-02-2013 22:00
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
I was misunderstood. The general idea is that immigrants suck the state dry. There are those who live of the state, but there are also "normal" inhabitants who take advantage of welfare. There are many, many immigrants who work hard etc.
Taking advantage of welfare is good?
It obviously isn't, and that's exactly what he's saying?
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 19-02-2013 22:49
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kumazan wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
I was misunderstood. The general idea is that immigrants suck the state dry. There are those who live of the state, but there are also "normal" inhabitants who take advantage of welfare. There are many, many immigrants who work hard etc.
Taking advantage of welfare is good?
It obviously isn't, and that's exactly what he's saying?
That's what I don't understand. It doesn't sound like that's what he's saying.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 19-02-2013 22:50
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
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https://blog.herit...americans/
https://www.forbes...tax-hiker/
https://www.policy...ddle-class
https://beforeitsn...52938.html
https://www.examin...class-hard
https://blog.herit...-tax-hike/
More on the way!
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 19-02-2013 22:55
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
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baseballlover312 wrote:
kumazan wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
I was misunderstood. The general idea is that immigrants suck the state dry. There are those who live of the state, but there are also "normal" inhabitants who take advantage of welfare. There are many, many immigrants who work hard etc.
Taking advantage of welfare is good?
It obviously isn't, and that's exactly what he's saying?
That's what I don't understand. It doesn't sound like that's what he's saying.
He's saying that there are immigrants who live off the state (which he perceives as a bad thing) but there are also 'normal' people (read non-immigrants) who do the same thing. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-02-2013 22:58
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Wow a politician broke a promise! I've never seen that happen before 
But it raises a question of how people would want free health care paid for? The government can't take it all on with the current level of debt and cuts that need to be introduced.
Yes it could have come from higher income earners, but to be honest they are not the ones who need the free health care.
You've got to look at it in a different way. One one hand you've got an increase in tax, but if that means you no longer have to pay health insurance it may mean some groups are better off.
Hard to say without those numbers though
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| Daggen |
Posted on 19-02-2013 22:59
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Sprinter
Posts: 1849
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Before someone starts yelling about that immigrants take all our jobs.
TRY TO BE A FUCKING CLEANING LADY!!!!!!!!
Immigrants does jobs that Americans, Dutchmen, swedes, Belgians don't want to do. A nation can only get better with immigrants who can support themselves. |
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 19-02-2013 23:00
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Maybe some more info than just posting some links would be nice  But just from the headlines, it looks like Obama is raising taxes for the middle class. Probably he promised the contrary before the election? Is it the only tax raise he does or is the whole population affected?
Also, but that may be just my personal preference, but a website that's also doing reports about a covered-up alien invasion in Chile might not be the No 1 source for political stuff But then again, it's only one out of six, so what the hell.
TheManxMissile wrote:
Yes it could have come from higher income earners, but to be honest they are not the ones who need the free health care.
But that's the point. Even though they don't need it, they pay for it in a solidary system. That's how it works (or doesn't, depending on where you live)
Edited by cunego59 on 19-02-2013 23:03
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 19-02-2013 23:04
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That's why I put 6.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-02-2013 23:09
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cunego59 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Yes it could have come from higher income earners, but to be honest they are not the ones who need the free health care.
But that's the point. Even though they don't need it, they pay for it in a solidary system. That's how it works (or doesn't, depending on where you live)
Well obviously. And thats how i want things to work. Those who can pay, pay. Those who can't, don't.
But its America, and they don't do many things "properly/as you'd expect"
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 19-02-2013 23:20
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Well yeah. It's this strange mentality, that implies that those who have money have earned it and don't have to share their wealth and those who are rather poor just haven't tried hard enough and don't deserve better (I know this is may be worded a bit dramatically but isn't that the essence of the liberal politics with as little governmental interference as possible?). What is often forgotten here is, in my opinion, that firstly, many people aren't in a position to gain some wealth because they come from a social sphere from which it's impossible to rise if you doesn't have a special, fantastic talent, which, let's face it, most people haven't. These "from rags to riches"-stories, the "American Dream" happens far to rarely. Secondly, those who've gained wealth didn't do that completely on their own. Sure, they've worked hard and probably clever and deserve a certain reward, but one shouldn't forget that those stories of success are only possible because of a mostly functioning society and the people living in it. And therefore, it doesn't seem too odd to give something back in form of decent taxes.
Correct me if there's some logical flaw or if I didn't get the concept.
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
