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The Difficult Topics
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 12-02-2013 20:55
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They will if you let them. Those children may be bullied because gay marriage may not be accepted by some, and your conclusion is to stop the process of gaining more acceptance because it may become a little inconvinient? Sorry, but I don't think that's the way to go 
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 12-02-2013 20:56
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I have never won a debate on here and I never will. Good Day. I'm out.
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 12-02-2013 20:58
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baseballlover312 wrote:
I have never won a debate on here and I never will. Good Day. I'm out.
Come on man, this is not about winning (and it's surely not about you either, if that's what you're implying). It's about exchanging arguments and broadening your horizon. Don't retreat just because your opinion may not be the one of the majority
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 12-02-2013 20:58
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I'm not a guy for difficult topics, but I feel that I have to say something here.
It's possible. Here in the Netherlands, there are a lot of gay marriages etc, and it works.
I'm not say that there isn't bullying at all here about being gay, but it isn't as bad as you(baseball) say it is.
There are a lot of Dutch celebreties who are (openly) gay, I've got multiple teachers at my school who are gay, multiple pupils on my school who are etc.
It's just being respected here. Yes, there is a bit bullying at the start, but after every one get used to it, it just stops.
And there is of course still bullying here in the NL, it's everywhere. Sometimes, being gay is used as an excuse to bully, but it's not the reason why.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 12-02-2013 20:59
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Don't try to bring mye back into this, just leave me be.
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 12-02-2013 21:02
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The parents of kids who are doing the bullying are shit parents. It's not the responsibility of the kid who has gay parents to teach a bully respect for your fellow human being.
I have quite a few friends, family and acquaintances who are gay, including some with whom I am quite close who have gay parents, and I can't say I wouldn't trust them to raise kids in a satisfactory way. They're just normal people. Treating gay people as normal people is the next step, and it's really not a particularly strenuous step.
The law probably has to precede universal recognition of gays as normal. Once those people who believe gays are incapable of raising kids or being monogamous couples see that the world isn't going to end with equal protection they will be won over, and all that will be left in the opposition column are the people who think the South Will Rise Again, and still believe that interracial marriage should be banned, the sort of people who die off in a generation or two later.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 01:38
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 12-02-2013 21:03
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This is the way the world works; you make a claim and you gotta stand by it or say you were wrong. This is a place for debate which means you are free to post your own opinions, but you also have to deal with those opinions being discussed.
There's a fine line between "psychotherapist" and "psycho the rapist"
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 12-02-2013 21:03
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cactus-jack wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
What about the fact that they will always be singled out and bullied for it?
You do realise you have no way of backing up such a statement?
It's been statistically proven that obese parents more often then not have obese children. They will also be singled out and bullied, so therefor overweight people shouldn't be allowed to get married. Neither should colored people because they're children also risk being bullied.
Studies do show, though, that kids with same sex parents are bullied more than the average. However, as you say, the same goes for obese kids, coloured kids etc.
What's interesting is that the same studies show that the LGBT kids are better equipped at handling the bullying, meaning that the effects of the bullying do not carry on into their adult lives.
Why children from lesbian households seem to do better in some aspects is not entirely clear, however, Nanette Gartrell, professor of psychiatry at the University of California, is of the opinion that these differences may be due to the fact that gay parents tend to be more involved in their children's lives. They are also well-aware of the difficulties their children face as a result of their upbringing and may spend more time educating their children about these issues.
More info:
https://www.myalternativefamily.com/it...llied-more
https://news.yahoo.com/elementary-lgbt...00024.html
Edited by CrueTrue on 12-02-2013 21:05
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 12-02-2013 21:04
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Don't try to bring mye back into this, just leave me be.
Not trying to make you do anything. And frankly, I'm pretty sure I don't have that much power over you (at least I hope so  ). I was just trying to express that I like these kinds of discussions and that I find it's a pity when someone else who is actively participating leaves Also, but that was more generally than towards you, I don't like to think of discussions as a contest for the win. You can't really lose in a polite and factual discussion. You can only, as I said, broaden your horizon.
That said, I don't mean to judge you if you don't want to discuss this any more. That's your decision only
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 13-02-2013 06:13
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cactus-jack wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
What about the fact that they will always be singled out and bullied for it?
You do realise you have no way of backing up such a statement?
It's been statistically proven that obese parents more often then not have obese children. They will also be singled out and bullied, so therefor overweight people shouldn't be allowed to get married. Neither should colored people because they're children also risk being bullied.
Well, these should at least think about it a lot, because their kid will have with high probability health problems right from the birth and that is much worse than bullying (of course i am speaking here about like 200kg people, not a bit fat).
I am not anywhere near against the gay marriages (despite i confess to fact that seeing two men kissing each other is vomit time for me, but that is their love and life).
Where i am not so sure, is child adopting, but i did not read any psychological studies (and i doubt many of you did), so we are only guessing here. I still think the child shouild have mother and father, which is in my opinion best for their development, but as world is not black and white, maybe having two loving mothers/fathers is better than being beated by father,while the junkie mother is looking....but still i can say it is not "natural" for my mind and i would still prefer "traditional" families to place unwanted babies.
But is not big deal for me, whatever is the best for the little man is best. ( i think gay couples are not adopting babies for long historic period, are there any of this way raised people old enough to study their psychology to say how it differs for their whole life?).
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 13-02-2013 06:17
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baseballlover312 wrote:
I have never won a debate on here and I never will. Good Day. I'm out.
You can always try again (see my Sisyphus work in Messi world vs. reality battle in football thread)
You can have different opinion than people here, but it is yours and you seem consistent in it, still much better than changing coats every day.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 13-02-2013 06:24
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Levi4life wrote:
The law probably has to precede universal recognition of gays as normal.
For me, gays are normal people like you and me and anybody, but it is imo stupid to think, they can be treated with exactly same rules and laws like the others, concerning the child birth and adoption. Why? Because two gays making love does not result in one of them having a big belly and giving a birth to a child. They are not women that gave the life to the child, how can they be treated by the same logics? You know that naturally mother has almost uncutable bonds to her child, something that cant be reproduced artifically?
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 13-02-2013 11:19
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Levi4life wrote:
The law probably has to precede universal recognition of gays as normal.
For me, gays are normal people like you and me and anybody, but it is imo stupid to think, they can be treated with exactly same rules and laws like the others, concerning the child birth and adoption. Why? Because two gays making love does not result in one of them having a big belly and giving a birth to a child. They are not women that gave the life to the child, how can they be treated by the same logics? You know that naturally mother has almost uncutable bonds to her child, something that cant be reproduced artifically?
Obviously they can't have the same laws re: childbirth because they can't give birth but I see no reason why they can't adopt like a heterosexual couple. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 13-02-2013 11:33
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Gay marriage was voted here -in France- yesterday.
Now the debate is switching focus on adoption and on third-party birth givers.
While I subscribe almost 100 % to what's been written above by Levi, I also understand that some of our politicians point the risk of making a business out of a woman body to give birth to others' children.
Any thought on that aspect ?
Edited by Aquarius on 13-02-2013 11:34
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 13-02-2013 19:10
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I believe that such an industry already exists, at least in the US. Surrogacy is one way forwomen unable to carry a baby to term to have children.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 14-02-2013 00:38
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Yes but not very common.
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 14-02-2013 02:30
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I doubt there would be a marked increase though.
Slippery slope arguments like that are good indicators that an opposition is in it's death throws. I haven't really heard that argument here, but the big one seems to be "Where does it stop? Man-goat marriage?"
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| Strydz |
Posted on 14-02-2013 03:21
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Levi4life wrote:
I doubt there would be a marked increase though.
Slippery slope arguments like that are good indicators that an opposition is in it's death throws. I haven't really heard that argument here, but the big one seems to be "Where does it stop? Man-goat marriage?"
I have never understood that argument myself, it really must be in the death throws when they bring that where does it stop rubbish. A goat can't consent to the act of marriage so clearly it can't get married, pretty easy to keep marriage difined by law as being between 2 consenting (human) adults.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 14-02-2013 06:15
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Levi4life wrote:
I doubt there would be a marked increase though.
Slippery slope arguments like that are good indicators that an opposition is in it's death throws. I haven't really heard that argument here, but the big one seems to be "Where does it stop? Man-goat marriage?"
It is nice that you are so liberal and all that, while you have only contempt for the different opinions on the matter.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 14-02-2013 06:16
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 14-02-2013 07:03
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In my humble opinion, civil rights are non-negotiable, and as marriage has legal protections associated with it, marriage is a civil right. Any contempt you detect in my arguments is genuine, if unintentional.
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