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Vuelta a España - Week 1
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| gotlandrules |
Posted on 24-08-2012 16:48
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
gotlandrules wrote:
anyone has a profile for tomorrows stage that shows how steep the climbs are in %?
The final climb is 7 kilometers @ around 8%.
thank you, and the long one? looks pretty harmless but looks might be deceiving i hope  |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 24-08-2012 16:49
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I_Mayo wrote:
kumazan wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
kumazan wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
kumazan wrote:
I'll feign to be surprised that no one is complaining this time about not waiting for those who crashed.
You compare Morabito to race leader and contender. Please.
Are Morabito or Gerdemann somehow lesser cyclists? Does Valverde have more rights than them? Of course not.
What do you mean by "lesser cyclist"? Talent, capability and chances in this race wise? Yes, they are.
I mean lesser cyclist win the same sense as blacks were lesser men in South Africa during the apartheid.
But now you're comparing them as a person. Bringing black people rights is all about individual person. But when we compare cyclists it's all about what they do on the road.
Again, that reference is just what I mean with "lesser", don't read anything else in that. But you're saying that supposedly stronger riders should be waited, while others shouldn't. I just can't agree with this. It makes no sense.
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 24-08-2012 16:49
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gotlandrules wrote:
Pellizotti2 wrote:
gotlandrules wrote:
anyone has a profile for tomorrows stage that shows how steep the climbs are in %?
The final climb is 7 kilometers @ around 8%.
thank you, and the long one? looks pretty harmless but looks might be deceiving i hope
Which long one? The longest climb tomorrow is the final one.
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 24-08-2012 16:58
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kumazan wrote:
Again, that reference is just what I mean with "lesser", don't read anything else in that. But you're saying that supposedly stronger riders should be waited, while others shouldn't. I just can't agree with this. It makes no sense.
If the guy has achieved and done more, does he earn some extra rights? And by "extra" I mean things like waiting for him if crashes and not that he should have some advantages.
Personally, if I would be pro cyclist I would wait for anyone.
Edited by I_Mayo on 24-08-2012 16:59
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 24-08-2012 16:59
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Btw, some notable time losses:
| 67 | 91 | TALANSKY, Andrew | GRS | + 33'' | | 68 | 48 | MORABITO, Steve | BMC | + 33'' | | 80 | 112 | ANACONA, Winner | LAM | + 51'' | | 89 | 188 | URAN, Rigoberto | SKY | + 1' 09'' | | 142 | 111 | CUNEGO, Damiano | LAM | + 3' 38'' |
Not good for Talansky. Was he was caught in the crash?
Edited by Pellizotti2 on 24-08-2012 16:59
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| kumazan |
Posted on 24-08-2012 17:04
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I_Mayo wrote:
kumazan wrote:
Again, that reference is just what I mean with "lesser", don't read anything else in that. But you're saying that supposedly stronger riders should be waited, while others shouldn't. I just can't agree with this. It makes no sense.
If the guy has achieved and done more, does he earn some extra rights? And by "extra" I mean things like waiting for him if crashes and not that he should have some advantages.
Personally, if I would be pro cyclist I would wait for anyone.
Again, why should anyone have extra rights? You would wait for anyone? Fine, at least that's coherent. I can accept the waiting for anyone position, even if I disagree with that, but only waiting for some riders makes no sense.
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 24-08-2012 17:19
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kumazan wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
kumazan wrote:
Again, that reference is just what I mean with "lesser", don't read anything else in that. But you're saying that supposedly stronger riders should be waited, while others shouldn't. I just can't agree with this. It makes no sense.
If the guy has achieved and done more, does he earn some extra rights? And by "extra" I mean things like waiting for him if crashes and not that he should have some advantages.
Personally, if I would be pro cyclist I would wait for anyone.
Again, why should anyone have extra rights? You would wait for anyone? Fine, at least that's coherent. I can accept the waiting for anyone position, even if I disagree with that, but only waiting for some riders makes no sense.
For me it's that you don't want to eliminate or take advantage on your direct opponents because you capitalize on their misfortune.
Edited by I_Mayo on 24-08-2012 17:20
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 24-08-2012 17:19
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Degenkolb 3 for 3. This is realy top class sprinter racing..style |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 24-08-2012 17:22
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Talansky. 
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 09:51
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| FreitasPCM |
Posted on 24-08-2012 17:24
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Talansky was caught in the crash I believe, among him was Morabito. Not sure about the others, and what happened to Uran. |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 24-08-2012 17:26
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I_Mayo wrote:
kumazan wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
kumazan wrote:
Again, that reference is just what I mean with "lesser", don't read anything else in that. But you're saying that supposedly stronger riders should be waited, while others shouldn't. I just can't agree with this. It makes no sense.
If the guy has achieved and done more, does he earn some extra rights? And by "extra" I mean things like waiting for him if crashes and not that he should have some advantages.
Personally, if I would be pro cyclist I would wait for anyone.
Again, why should anyone have extra rights? You would wait for anyone? Fine, at least that's coherent. I can accept the waiting for anyone position, even if I disagree with that, but only waiting for some riders makes no sense.
For me it's that you don't want to eliminate or take advantage on your direct opponents because you capitalize on their misfortune.
Ok, I disagree with that, but it's a reasonable position. As long as it's applied to all, and not just a few.
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 24-08-2012 17:36
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kumazan wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
kumazan wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
kumazan wrote:
Again, that reference is just what I mean with "lesser", don't read anything else in that. But you're saying that supposedly stronger riders should be waited, while others shouldn't. I just can't agree with this. It makes no sense.
If the guy has achieved and done more, does he earn some extra rights? And by "extra" I mean things like waiting for him if crashes and not that he should have some advantages.
Personally, if I would be pro cyclist I would wait for anyone.
Again, why should anyone have extra rights? You would wait for anyone? Fine, at least that's coherent. I can accept the waiting for anyone position, even if I disagree with that, but only waiting for some riders makes no sense.
For me it's that you don't want to eliminate or take advantage on your direct opponents because you capitalize on their misfortune.
Ok, I disagree with that, but it's a reasonable position. As long as it's applied to all, and not just a few.
But that's why I brought word "direct". In this type of situation GC contenders should wait for GC contenders, sprint contenders should wait for sprint contenders (if it's far enough from finish of course) etc. If it would be a breakaway with Morabito in it and he have been fallen. Imo, other breakaway riders should wait for him. |
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| Bookie |
Posted on 24-08-2012 20:00
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kumazan wrote:
Again, why should anyone have extra rights? You would wait for anyone? Fine, at least that's coherent. I can accept the waiting for anyone position, even if I disagree with that, but only waiting for some riders makes no sense.
It's not that difficult.
Sportsmanship dictates you beat your rivals in an honest fight. If a race leader or contender for the win in a tour crashes, then you cannot defeat him one-to-one and hence its fair conduct to wait. |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 24-08-2012 20:06
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
Swift once again unable to keep up with the other sprinters. Really disappointing in this race to be honest.
His problem is positioning. On the first couple of stages he did too much work to try to get into a position that he had nothing for the Sprint, and today - sure Sky did a lot of work but it wasnt much use to Swift - it left him at the front too early and having to launch his sprint off Froome.
He does seem to give up rather than keep fighting until the end though, which is not good to see
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| jsh312mufc |
Posted on 24-08-2012 20:23
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I_Mayo wrote:
kumazan wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
kumazan wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
kumazan wrote:
Again, that reference is just what I mean with "lesser", don't read anything else in that. But you're saying that supposedly stronger riders should be waited, while others shouldn't. I just can't agree with this. It makes no sense.
If the guy has achieved and done more, does he earn some extra rights? And by "extra" I mean things like waiting for him if crashes and not that he should have some advantages.
Personally, if I would be pro cyclist I would wait for anyone.
Again, why should anyone have extra rights? You would wait for anyone? Fine, at least that's coherent. I can accept the waiting for anyone position, even if I disagree with that, but only waiting for some riders makes no sense.
For me it's that you don't want to eliminate or take advantage on your direct opponents because you capitalize on their misfortune.
Ok, I disagree with that, but it's a reasonable position. As long as it's applied to all, and not just a few.
But that's why I brought word "direct". In this type of situation GC contenders should wait for GC contenders, sprint contenders should wait for sprint contenders (if it's far enough from finish of course) etc. If it would be a breakaway with Morabito in it and he have been fallen. Imo, other breakaway riders should wait for him.
nobody waited for flecha and hoogerland in the break last year. if valverde breaks cyclings written rules, how does he expect others to follow the unwritten ones for him? |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 24-08-2012 20:27
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Who waited for Evans in Vuelta 2009 ? 
And who kept riding after an opponent fell in this year's Paris-Nice ?
Hoogerland and Flecha looked too bad to be waited for. Imagine Hoogerland would have taken 15 minutes to stand up and finally abandoned, should LLSS, Voeckler and Casar wait for the peloton then, or would the peloton be kind enough to give them their gap back ? Neither. The race was "on", it kept going. |
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| jsh312mufc |
Posted on 24-08-2012 20:29
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Aquarius wrote:
Who waited for Evans in Vuelta 2009 ?
And who kept riding after an opponent fell in this year's Paris-Nice ?
Hoogerland and Flecha looked too bad to be waited for. Imagine Hoogerland would have taken 15 minutes to stand up and finally abandoned, should LLSS, Voeckler and Casar wait for the peloton then, or would the peloton be kind enough to give them their gap back ? Neither. The race was "on", it kept going.
flecha was only 1 min behind, and hoogerland was up before the peloton arrived |
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 24-08-2012 21:11
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Another great sprint from Degenkolb today 
But another bad day for Cunego |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 24-08-2012 21:27
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I_Mayo wrote:
But that's why I brought word "direct". In this type of situation GC contenders should wait for GC contenders, sprint contenders should wait for sprint contenders (if it's far enough from finish of course) etc. If it would be a breakaway with Morabito in it and he have been fallen. Imo, other breakaway riders should wait for him.
Morabito is BMC's "GC contender". Before you start laughing, remember Froome 2011. Would you have stopped for him?
It's either wait for all, or wait for no one, anything in between is just open for hypocrisy. Take a moment, if you wish, to read the last pages of the Paris - Nice thread. You'll notice that no one condemns Movistar as harshly as Sky has been here. Of course, for some reason Valverde has more fans than Levi, and Movistar isn't hated (or strongly disliked) by many as Sky is, but I'm sure that hasn't anything to do with all this.
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| Wilier |
Posted on 25-08-2012 05:42
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One of the first things about cycling I remember is watching Ullrich waiting for the crashed Armstrong on Luz Ardiden. I really admired Ullrich for that and I always rooted for him. By then I've realised cycling is a very hypocrit sport.
But I still like it more when riders have a sense of honour and prefer to fight their concurents on equal grounds.
Edited by Wilier on 25-08-2012 05:42
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