A_Schleck wrote:
Well Wiggins is suddenly outclimbing Carlos Sastre, so I'd never say never given his tempo abilities.
It has nothing to do with a lower body weight or more stamina. Its about knowing how to pace yourself for the time-trial, and how to get the best out of your body. prolouge's don't demand that, they demand a flat out effort, and while Wiggo will have Matt White, who wasn't that great a TTer in the car behind him, Contador will have either Ekimov or Bruyneel or both in the car, and they certainly will do a better job of helping him be efficient.
A_Schleck wrote:
Okay I get your point. Then I say he's outclimbing Cadel Evans
and I give you Dauphine syndrom..peaked to early. Don't get me wrong..I like to see Wiggins this "high". But still this was one stage..I realy hope that he can keep up..i am almost shure that Evans can
A_Schleck wrote:
Well Wiggins is suddenly outclimbing Carlos Sastre, so I'd never say never given his tempo abilities.
It has nothing to do with a lower body weight or more stamina. Its about knowing how to pace yourself for the time-trial, and how to get the best out of your body. prolouge's don't demand that, they demand a flat out effort, and while Wiggo will have Matt White, who wasn't that great a TTer in the car behind him, Contador will have either Ekimov or Bruyneel or both in the car, and they certainly will do a better job of helping him be efficient.
Time trials are Wiggins strength, you cant really think the person in the car behind is going to make any difference?
Nevermind the fact that in the prologue, Wiggins wasnt 'plugged in' to the car behind him anyway - who is to say he is going to change that for Annecy?
A_Schleck wrote:
Well Wiggins is suddenly outclimbing Carlos Sastre, so I'd never say never given his tempo abilities.
It has nothing to do with a lower body weight or more stamina. Its about knowing how to pace yourself for the time-trial, and how to get the best out of your body. prolouge's don't demand that, they demand a flat out effort, and while Wiggo will have Matt White, who wasn't that great a TTer in the car behind him, Contador will have either Ekimov or Bruyneel or both in the car, and they certainly will do a better job of helping him be efficient.
Well fighting for the GC in the Tour de France for the first time in his career, following Frank Schleck up a 1st Category climb, rather easily, should give you an indication that you have the ability to pace yourself. But it's not really what I'm onto about.
I'm just saying with the TT abilities the guy has why shouldn't he be able to rip up this one? We have seen bigger surprises than that before. Who would have thought Kirchen would be the strongest GC rider in the time trials last year? I would never have. But I have no reason to think Wiggins can't beat Contador in this time trial. Maybe he won't, but her certainly has a shot, plus he's the only rider capable of winning this Tour, who isn't Contador, so I'm rooting a bit for the guy.
A_Schleck wrote:
Okay I get your point. Then I say he's outclimbing Cadel Evans
and I give you Dauphine syndrom..peaked to early. Don't get me wrong..I like to see Wiggins this "high". But still this was one stage..I realy hope that he can keep up..i am almost shure that Evans can
I don't see why not. Of course we have no idea of how his recuperation is this far in a three week Tour, but we didn't know that about Vandevelde last year either, and it seems to me there's a big difference in Vandevelde 08 and Wiggins 09. Last year VDV was just barely clinging onto the favourites, while this year it seems that Wiggins has a lot more to give.
A_Schleck wrote:
Well fighting for the GC in the Tour de France for the first time in his career, following Frank Schleck up a 1st Category climb, rather easily, should give you an indication that you have the ability to pace yourself. But it's not really what I'm onto about.
I'm just saying with the TT abilities the guy has why shouldn't he be able to rip up this one? We have seen bigger surprises than that before. Who would have thought Kirchen would be the strongest GC rider in the time trials last year? I would never have. But I have no reason to think Wiggins can't beat Contador in this time trial. Maybe he won't, but her certainly has a shot, plus he's the only rider capable of winning this Tour, who isn't Contador, so I'm rooting a bit for the guy.
Really? I dont think Wiggins has any chance of actually winning the tour.
Yes he is going to be right up there in the time trial, I expect it to be pretty close between Cancellara, Contador and Wiggins in Annecy. But on the climbs I still think that Andy Schleck is the best man capable of defeating Contador - not that I think Contador is about to be beaten.
A_Schleck wrote:
there's a big difference in Vandevelde 08 and Wiggins 09. Last year VDV was just barely clinging onto the favourites, while this year it seems that Wiggins has a lot more to give.
Yep..and in both mountain stages. He was like a little confused..and did not know what decision to make. Follow who and when. he had reserv.
A_Schleck wrote:
Well fighting for the GC in the Tour de France for the first time in his career, following Frank Schleck up a 1st Category climb, rather easily, should give you an indication that you have the ability to pace yourself. But it's not really what I'm onto about.
I'm just saying with the TT abilities the guy has why shouldn't he be able to rip up this one? We have seen bigger surprises than that before. Who would have thought Kirchen would be the strongest GC rider in the time trials last year? I would never have. But I have no reason to think Wiggins can't beat Contador in this time trial. Maybe he won't, but her certainly has a shot, plus he's the only rider capable of winning this Tour, who isn't Contador, so I'm rooting a bit for the guy.
Really? I dont think Wiggins has any chance of actually winning the tour.
Yes he is going to be right up there in the time trial, I expect it to be pretty close between Cancellara, Contador and Wiggins in Annecy. But on the climbs I still think that Andy Schleck is the best man capable of defeating Contador - not that I think Contador is about to be beaten.
Yeah but Andy still has 40 seconds to catch up on Wiggins and who is guaranteeing that he will in fact grab those seconds, and even if he do. Wiggins could easily take 2-3 minutes on him in the time trial. It's all a big question right now, I know, but I don't see Andy gaining several minutes on Wiggins on the Ventoux.
A_Schleck wrote:
Well fighting for the GC in the Tour de France for the first time in his career, following Frank Schleck up a 1st Category climb, rather easily, should give you an indication that you have the ability to pace yourself. But it's not really what I'm onto about.
I'm just saying with the TT abilities the guy has why shouldn't he be able to rip up this one? We have seen bigger surprises than that before. Who would have thought Kirchen would be the strongest GC rider in the time trials last year? I would never have. But I have no reason to think Wiggins can't beat Contador in this time trial. Maybe he won't, but her certainly has a shot, plus he's the only rider capable of winning this Tour, who isn't Contador, so I'm rooting a bit for the guy.
Really? I dont think Wiggins has any chance of actually winning the tour.
Yes he is going to be right up there in the time trial, I expect it to be pretty close between Cancellara, Contador and Wiggins in Annecy. But on the climbs I still think that Andy Schleck is the best man capable of defeating Contador - not that I think Contador is about to be beaten.
Yeah but Andy still has 40 seconds to catch up on Wiggins and who is guaranteeing that he will in fact grab those seconds, and even if he do. Wiggins could easily take 2-3 minutes on him in the time trial. It's all a big question right now, I know, but I don't see Andy gaining several minutes on Wiggins on the Ventoux.
But in terms of beating Contador, Wiggins could do it in the TT but I dont see him outclimbing Contador. I do however think that Andy Schleck or possibly Sastre (whom I expect to improve) could potentially beat Contador in the mountains. Whether they do or not is another question of course.
A_Schleck wrote:
Well fighting for the GC in the Tour de France for the first time in his career, following Frank Schleck up a 1st Category climb, rather easily, should give you an indication that you have the ability to pace yourself. But it's not really what I'm onto about.
I'm just saying with the TT abilities the guy has why shouldn't he be able to rip up this one? We have seen bigger surprises than that before. Who would have thought Kirchen would be the strongest GC rider in the time trials last year? I would never have. But I have no reason to think Wiggins can't beat Contador in this time trial. Maybe he won't, but her certainly has a shot, plus he's the only rider capable of winning this Tour, who isn't Contador, so I'm rooting a bit for the guy.
Really? I dont think Wiggins has any chance of actually winning the tour.
Yes he is going to be right up there in the time trial, I expect it to be pretty close between Cancellara, Contador and Wiggins in Annecy. But on the climbs I still think that Andy Schleck is the best man capable of defeating Contador - not that I think Contador is about to be beaten.
Yeah but Andy still has 40 seconds to catch up on Wiggins and who is guaranteeing that he will in fact grab those seconds, and even if he do. Wiggins could easily take 2-3 minutes on him in the time trial. It's all a big question right now, I know, but I don't see Andy gaining several minutes on Wiggins on the Ventoux.
But in terms of beating Contador, Wiggins could do it in the TT but I dont see him outclimbing Contador. I do however think that Andy Schleck or possibly Sastre (whom I expect to improve) could potentially beat Contador in the mountains. Whether they do or not is another question of course.
What I'm saying is that noone will beat Contador in the mountains, so because of Wiggins' TT abilities I think he's the only rider who could possibly pull his deficit back. As pointed out the chances of doing so are marginal, but a lot of things (crashes, bad days etc.) could happen, so why not?
Basically I'm just saying that Contador is unbeatable and will win the Tour, and then I'm emphasizing Wiggins, as he with his TT abilities could cause a upset
A_Schleck wrote:
Well Wiggins is suddenly outclimbing Carlos Sastre, so I'd never say never given his tempo abilities.
It has nothing to do with a lower body weight or more stamina. Its about knowing how to pace yourself for the time-trial, and how to get the best out of your body. prolouge's don't demand that, they demand a flat out effort, and while Wiggo will have Matt White, who wasn't that great a TTer in the car behind him, Contador will have either Ekimov or Bruyneel or both in the car, and they certainly will do a better job of helping him be efficient.
Time trials are Wiggins strength, you cant really think the person in the car behind is going to make any difference?
Nevermind the fact that in the prologue, Wiggins wasnt 'plugged in' to the car behind him anyway - who is to say he is going to change that for Annecy?
As I noted, Wiggins is a prologue specialist, not a long time-trial specialist. Also, the person in the car behind can and often does make a big difference in terms of keeping the rider calm, patient, and on track.
And yes, I think he will plug himself in for a long time-trial where he will need more information than in a shorter prologue where you can memorize the race route and profile.
Deadpool wrote:
As I noted, Wiggins is a prologue specialist, not a long time-trial specialist. Also, the person in the car behind can and often does make a big difference in terms of keeping the rider calm, patient, and on track.
And yes, I think he will plug himself in for a long time-trial where he will need more information than in a shorter prologue where you can memorize the race route and profile.
No, no, no, no, no.
The last few Grand Tours time trials (note: not prologues) Wiggins has ridden:
2009 TDF Stage 1 - 15.5km - 3rd
2009 Giro Stage 21 - 15.5km - 2nd (rain affected)
2009 Giro Stage 12 - 60.6km - 7th (If you remember it was the particularly mountainous one)
2008 Giro - Stage 21 - 28.5km 4th
2007 TDF Stage 13 - 54km - 4th
And if you consider Wiggins has never ridden so well on the road as he has done in this race...
Edited by SportingNonsense on 20-07-2009 21:20
Deadpool wrote:
As I noted, Wiggins is a prologue specialist, not a long time-trial specialist. Also, the person in the car behind can and often does make a big difference in terms of keeping the rider calm, patient, and on track.
And yes, I think he will plug himself in for a long time-trial where he will need more information than in a shorter prologue where you can memorize the race route and profile.
No, no, no, no, no.
The last few Grand Tours time trials (note: not prologues) Wiggins has ridden:
2009 TDF Stage 1 - 15.5km - 3rd
2009 Giro Stage 21 - 15.5km - 2nd (rain affected)
2009 Giro Stage 12 - 60.6km - 7th (If you remember it was the particularly mountainous one)
2008 Giro - Stage 21 - 28.5km 4th 2007 TDF Stage 13 - 54km - 4th
And if you consider Wiggins has never ridden so well on the road as he has done in this race...
Contained two major climbs. It was also the one time so far in his career where I didn't like his attitude. He rode the whole TT in dry conditions except for the final km.
The favorites all rode in pouring rain.
At the end Wiggins complained that he wasn't being given proper credit and that he rode in the rain.
Edited by issoisso on 20-07-2009 21:28
