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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| bob7 |
Posted on 06-07-2015 19:25
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Stagiare
Posts: 220
Joined: 27-01-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Paul23 wrote:
bob7 wrote:
No. Many users tell you, that you're wrong. Are they all wrong and you're right ?
Don't argue with him. It's like arguing with a Wall.
Exactly, but it's embarrassing not accepting arguments, any arguments. |
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| Fresh D |
Posted on 06-07-2015 21:24
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Free Agent
Posts: 104
Joined: 08-12-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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For the top guys you can create stats solely based on their betting odds in competitive field llke the tour and on characteristic stages or classics.
Valverde was the top favourite for today 2,0 infront of Rodriguez 7,0 and Martin 7,0 f.e.
Has someone found a site with historic betting odds?
The odds for yesterdays stage were pretty accurate to the actual sprinter stats in the daily db.
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| Strandkorb |
Posted on 08-07-2015 21:22
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Amateur
Posts: 10
Joined: 21-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Hey guys. Great work as always.
I noticed that Jakub Mareczko has a very high mountain stat for a sprinter. I followed him for more than I year now so I know that in reality - although he is kind of small - he is probably one of the poorest riders in all of pro cycling on both long and short hills.
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| Anderis |
Posted on 09-07-2015 22:48
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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I think TJVG and Froome could enjoy some upgrade on CO. But you've probably noticed that.
I also don't understand why Froome was rated the lowest HI among the "big four". He had the measure of Contador on some explosive, short climbs already in the 2012 Vuelta.
https://www.procyc...?id=113270
https://www.procyc...age_6_Jaca |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 09-07-2015 23:32
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Anderis wrote:
I also don't understand why Froome was rated the lowest HI among the "big four". He had the measure of Contador on some explosive, short climbs already in the 2012 Vuelta.
It's because the hill stat is largely based on the Ardennes classics and Lombardy. when it comes to the really high hill stats. Nibali is the best of the big four and has 79 hill and Contador 79/78 and Quintana 78. I don't think Froome should be anymore than 78/77.
Classic routes in the tour like the Ardennes stage and cobbled stage are not really like the classics at all, as most teams are protecting the GC men and protecting them which restricts other riders so we don't usually get a proper classics' scenario. Also a lot of the classic's men are not on the same form that they were in April as well and for all these reasons I'm not really a fan when they put stages like cobbles or Ardennes climbs in the Tour.
Even with Froome at 77 hill in the game with his 83 mtn and superior tt he's always going to be a top favourite for any GT nd he probably has the best team as well.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 09-07-2015 23:36
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| Anderis |
Posted on 10-07-2015 00:01
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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I acknowledge the fact Froome shouldn't be rated as high in hills as Mur de Huy stage would suggest. But I just think that there weren't many good reasons not to put him equal on hills with Contador and Quintana. You say hill stat is largely based on Ardennes and Lombardy, but Quintana has done nothing in those races and Contador had only one decent Ardennes campaign and it was as long as 5 years ago.
But it is just a past and it doesn't matter much as long as all riders get the stats they deserve in the next uptade.
Edited by Anderis on 10-07-2015 00:22
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 00:12
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 10-07-2015 01:35
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Anderis wrote:
I acknowledge the fact Froome shouldn't be rated as high in hills as Mur de Huy stage would suggest. But I just think that there weren't many good reasons not to put him equal on hills with Contador and Quintana. You say hill stat is largely based on Ardennes and Lombardy, but Quintana has done nothing in those races and Contador had only one decent Ardennes campaign and it was as long as 5 years ago.
But it is just a past and it doesn't matter much as long as all riders get the stats they deserve in the next uptade.
I agree with you there and the fact that Quintana was the leader of his team and he didn't proved anything during Mur the huy and he's 78 hill. There's no way he's better than froome in hills. He's the same with froome at best. durung spring campaigns he never get good results to justify 78. |
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| Luki_90 |
Posted on 10-07-2015 01:46
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Junior Rider
Posts: 36
Joined: 22-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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78 will suit him. Kwiatkowski stats should be little lowered. After AGR he didn't show anything. Even if i' m a fan , i will not have any claims 
Edited by Luki_90 on 10-07-2015 01:50
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 10-07-2015 12:47
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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The point I was making with Froome is that you can't really base his hill stat on an Ardennes type stage within the greater context of Tour de France, it's much like suggesting that Tony Martin should be 79/80 cobbles because he won the cobbled stage in the Tour de France.
Now on the other hand Froome is a potential Liege-Bastogne-Liege winner and Tony Martin a poential Flanders or Roubaix winner. Both have big engines, Froome is a demon climber and Martin the ultimate powerhouse, but of course to win these races they would have to focus on them and train specially for them as it's not their speciality, so until then they shouldn't really have high stats unless they do well in those races and as of yet they haven't. In fact most big GT riders are potential LBL winners, but to win it they would really need to focus on it at the cost of something else. Whereas riders like Valverde and Rodriguez are already GT/Ardennes riders anyway merged into one.
Contador has a proven hill stat because he usually rides the Tour Pais Vasco well. |
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| koningjantje |
Posted on 10-07-2015 12:57
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Under 23
Posts: 92
Joined: 13-04-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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I hate that the ardennes classics and hilly stages are unrealistically presented in the game, I know that the scale kills those short climbs, but i think that the acceleration stat should have such a higher meaning during those stages. For example Quintana could have 82 hill stat but his acceleration will be far less than the likes of Gilbert, Rodriguez and Valverde. And that's why he can keep up in the hills but he cant make the difference. Because if you'd give Quintana like 76/75 hill he would suffer from middle climbs too much.
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| PeterRyder |
Posted on 10-07-2015 14:05
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Domestique
Posts: 540
Joined: 16-04-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Barguil needs a Mountian upgrade to 78. Being lower-rated that for example Atapuma is a huge joke. Plus 77 MO on Simon Yates is shocking...
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| Selwink |
Posted on 10-07-2015 14:09
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
Joined: 17-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Although Barguil is doing well so far this Tour, I think 78 is a bit high for someone whose best is 8th GC in a Vuelta, and hasn't shown much this year. However, I do agree Atapuma's MO could be 1 lower.
I don't see a problem with Yates's 77MO
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 10-07-2015 14:10
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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koningjantje wrote:
I hate that the ardennes classics and hilly stages are unrealistically presented in the game, I know that the scale kills those short climbs, but i think that the acceleration stat should have such a higher meaning during those stages. For example Quintana could have 82 hill stat but his acceleration will be far less than the likes of Gilbert, Rodriguez and Valverde. And that's why he can keep up in the hills but he cant make the difference. Because if you'd give Quintana like 76/75 hill he would suffer from middle climbs too much.
I agree the hilly stages and cobble climbs are usually far too short and should be made a bit longer to make them interesting.
I think your idea of emphasising the acc stat on hills a good one as well, as very short climbs in the game get muddled at times in gamplay and are over in a blink. For example the Paterberg is over in like seconds. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 10-07-2015 14:11
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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PeterRyder wrote:
Barguil needs a Mountian upgrade to 78. Being lower-rated that for example Atapuma is a huge joke. Plus 77 MO on Simon Yates is shocking...
I've always had Barguil at 77 mtn anyway, any higher than this will be revealed in the next week or so. |
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| PeterRyder |
Posted on 10-07-2015 16:37
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Domestique
Posts: 540
Joined: 16-04-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Selwink wrote:
Although Barguil is doing well so far this Tour, I think 78 is a bit high for someone whose best is 8th GC in a Vuelta, and hasn't shown much this year. However, I do agree Atapuma's MO could be 1 lower.
I don't see a problem with Yates's 77MO
When you say Barguil can't have higher MO stat because his best his 8th at Vuelta (and 2 stage wins in the previous edition) and the Yates never finished even near that, i think your explanation is a bit contradictory...
And no bias as I am also a Yates' fan. And Barguil at 77 is decent altrought I don't think it's fair comparing to others, but we can't please everyone 
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 10-07-2015 16:46
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Barguil to 78 is definitely a no at the moment. Could prove to deserve that later in Le Tour though.
And Simon Yates simply deserves 77MO on his Dauphiné alone.
Atapuma is a seperate case, he got low REC and weak backups, but recently had a very good Catalunya(mind you, in an insane field) which makes it hard to justify a downgrade.
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Selwink |
Posted on 10-07-2015 16:47
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
Joined: 17-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I mainly judges Yates on his 5th place in Pais Vasco and Dauphiné and his 6th place in Romandie. Barguil has shown nothing even close to that this season. I think 77MO for Yates is no less than fair. He only has 72REC anyway, not even nearly enough to perform well in GTs.
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| Anderis |
Posted on 11-07-2015 21:36
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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I've just realised Kristoffer Skjerping has only 55 CO. This is very wrong because he was 2nd in Ronde van Vlaanderen Beloften last year. Also rode and finished the main Ronde van Vlaanderen this year. Deserves an increase to mid 60's IMO. |
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| Maddox |
Posted on 11-07-2015 21:55
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 329
Joined: 19-06-2013
PCM$: 400.00
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And Vuillermoz deserves an ungrade to like 80 hills. |
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| bob7 |
Posted on 11-07-2015 22:07
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Stagiare
Posts: 220
Joined: 27-01-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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83 HIL for Vuillermoz, cuz he won today !!! |
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