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News in June
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| issoisso |
Posted on 21-06-2007 08:18
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Tour de France Champion
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well, Levi. if you're going to attribute to ME the conclusions that YOU took, then this conversation is over.
I have no patience for people who try very hard to read between the lines things that aren't there.
you sound like the american media: "do you support our presence in Iraq? no? then you're saying you hate american troops"
As I said. no patience. this ends here and don't expect me to further comment on it.
Edited by issoisso on 21-06-2007 08:31
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 21-06-2007 10:47
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I think Armstrong is one of the most intelligent cyclists. He knew exactly how to avoid being caught in the doping controlles, and he has probably had a few experts who could tell him what products to use. I can't believe that number 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 were doped, but that nr. 1 wasn't. Also, they did test some of his samples from 1999 in 2005 or 2006 (don't remember exactly) and found traces of EPO which wasn't detectable back then.Again, that makes me think that he had a great knowledge of what to use, and what he should avoid.
As with issoisso, this is just my opinion. I agree that it's a shame that the cyclists are being judged without proofs now-a-days, but it's really difficult to think otherwise when seeing all the circumstantial evidence. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 21-06-2007 10:56
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Oh, and by the way:
According to the UCI, which did not give any name, six to seven top level riders, who "could perform very well on the Tour de France", have been tested non-negative several time this season, during out of competition controls.
They are testing B-samples at the moment, and they're waiting for the results before publishing any name. Hopefully the names will be revealed before the Tour de France start |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 21-06-2007 11:06
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Tour de France Champion
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CrueTrue wrote:
Oh, and by the way:
According to the UCI, which did not give any name, six to seven top level riders, who "could perform very well on the Tour de France", have been tested non-negative several time this season, during out of competition controls.
They are testing B-samples at the moment, and they're waiting for the results before publishing any name. Hopefully the names will be revealed before the Tour de France start
hopefully so. as soon as possible before the Tour
call me a cynic, but I wouldn't be very surprised to come to the Prologue's eve and suddenly see "News Flash: so and so temporarily suspended"
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Phanekim |
Posted on 22-06-2007 00:21
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CrueTrue wrote:
Oh, and by the way:
According to the UCI, which did not give any name, six to seven top level riders, who "could perform very well on the Tour de France", have been tested non-negative several time this season, during out of competition controls.
They are testing B-samples at the moment, and they're waiting for the results before publishing any name. Hopefully the names will be revealed before the Tour de France start
Just happened upon this myself Crue, although we disagree on Lance/Discovery....We both agree any effort to expose cheating on behalf of UCI or anyone is greatly appreciated. I suspect it could be the Astana boys. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 22-06-2007 00:22
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Tour de France Champion
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Phanekim wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
Oh, and by the way:
According to the UCI, which did not give any name, six to seven top level riders, who "could perform very well on the Tour de France", have been tested non-negative several time this season, during out of competition controls.
They are testing B-samples at the moment, and they're waiting for the results before publishing any name. Hopefully the names will be revealed before the Tour de France start
Just happened upon this myself Crue, although we disagree on Lance/Discovery....We both agree any effort to expose cheating on behalf of UCI or anyone is greatly appreciated. I suspect it could be the Astana boys.
I suspect so too. they keep refusing to divulge where they train. very suspicious.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Phanekim |
Posted on 22-06-2007 05:54
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From what I've been reading, UCI has built a database of all the drug tests of all the riders. Through this database, they can observe abnormalities in a long term scale. Several riders implicated in this new scandal seem to be on UCI's radar for a while now.
Hamilton was the first casualty when he already showed abnormalities in his 2004 tour de romandie win. They kept an eye on him and caught him as year progressed.
Radsport has already leaked out that 3 of the riders in this newest scandal are on Astana. Vinokourov and Kloden are the names reported. Men in black, as many of you know, is a reference to riders who are training w/o their team colors in wierd locations. Apparently, Astana is this team.
""We have six to seven drivers in the visor, that we as a high risk classify because of its suspect behavior and also because it probably well go become in the Tour de France", declared woman Gripper. Some should have subjected themselves three or to four unannounced training inspections. One distrustfully had become because drivers would have opened at unusual places its training camp and would assume one, they would have tried to escape the performance drugs inspectors of the UCI. The reinforced unannounced training inspections of the UCI are part of the Antidopingkampfs intensified this year.
"The analysis results were not everyone negative. It will need some time in order to carry out the required procedure, the analysis of the B-sample. Previously we can announce no details", so woman Gripper. The boss of the UCI-Antidopingprogramms expects however that at least some results are certain before that at that 7. July of Tour de France beginning.
According to the accounts three of the concerned drivers should go for the Astana-team, with which the captains are named Alexandre Vinokourov and Andreas Klöden. The kasachische team guarded itself however on Thursday against such speculations. If drivers of the team exceptionally once "anonymously" trained, that has only therewith to do that they wanted to have its quiet about at the Riviera before the numerous wheel tourist. They would have nothing to conceal and in the Prenäen-training camp of the team would be moreover all drivers in the team tricots gone, emphasized the team in a Statement. Woman Gripper had spoken about "men in black", who suspected it, they would have wanted to hide itself before UCI-inspectors.
The Tour de France welcomed the action of the UCI against presumed favorites of the excursion. "One can be only satisfied if the international association tries to guarantee the honesty of all (Tour-)Teilnehmer. The tour did not hesitate last year in order to ask the suspension of several favorite. To clean that the UCI tries, to the last moment (before the tour) the Peloton, a good thing is", such a speaker of the tour-organizers who emphasized, that one would stand side by side in spite of all other disputes (per tours etc.) in the battles against performance drugs. "
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 22-06-2007 10:53
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Tour de France Champion
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Translated from German?  |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 22-06-2007 11:22
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Astana have admitted to have trained far away, not uniformed, but they deny being the "Mein In Black". The only reason why they do that is because they want peace. They have declared that in a press release. |
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| cmfos |
Posted on 22-06-2007 16:56
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Phanekim wrote:
From what I've been reading, UCI has built a database of all the drug tests of all the riders. Through this database, they can observe abnormalities in a long term scale. Several riders implicated in this new scandal seem to be on UCI's radar for a while now.
Hamilton was the first casualty when he already showed abnormalities in his 2004 tour de romandie win. They kept an eye on him and caught him as year progressed.
Radsport has already leaked out that 3 of the riders in this newest scandal are on Astana. Vinokourov and Kloden are the names reported. Men in black, as many of you know, is a reference to riders who are training w/o their team colors in wierd locations. Apparently, Astana is this team.
Good stuff, Phanekim. I remember hearing/reading that Jens Voight as head of the cyclist's union had advocated for establishing baseline controls of all the riders in the Peloton so that this baseline data could be compared to doping tests that are conducted over the course of the season. It is a very expensive proposition but it's the only way to do it right, in my opinion. that way, you would have more leverage against cyclists like Floyd Landis who states that his Testosterone/Epitestosterone ratio has always been high and that's the reason for his positive test in the TdF.
Your news on Astana was stuff I hadn't heard. I do hope it isn't true because I was pulling for Vinokourov this year.
I think the debate about Lance will go on forever. Certainly, it's hard to believe that he could cleanly win 7 straight Tour de France titles against incredibly talented riders who also were doping at some point in their career. And I agree with the points made about his incredibly competitive drive and his domineering personality. But I'm with Levi4life on this one: without a positive doping test against him, I can't condemn the guy for cheating. There has to be somethiing substantive that proves that he doped/cheated. Otherwise, it comes down to how you feel about the guy and whether you believe him or not. I say believe him until the tests prove otherwise (and I wouldn't be surprised if they did). But given that the guy basically trained for one race in the entire year and didn't ride himself to death like many of the top riders in the Peloton, I can see how he might be fresh enough to beat doped riders. It seems plausible, at least to me.
The other factor to consider is that the French press definitely has ulterior motives. My understanding is that Lance is reviled in France and so publishing reports that he doped or that they found epo in his blood that was banked 10 years ago, sells lots of copies of L'Equipe. So it's profitable of them to put this stuff out there. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 15:51
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| cmfos |
Posted on 22-06-2007 16:57
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P.S.
Addy, I like your new avatar! B)B) |
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| Addy291 |
Posted on 22-06-2007 17:04
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yes very nice
i think CrueTrue made it, or Crommy, or you but i know it wasn't me
much better than my boring old one of Giovani dos Santos
Edited by Addy291 on 22-06-2007 17:07
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| issoisso |
Posted on 22-06-2007 17:10
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cmfos wrote:
Good stuff, Phanekim. I remember hearing/reading that Jens Voight as head of the cyclist's union had advocated for establishing baseline controls of all the riders in the Peloton so that this baseline data could be compared to doping tests that are conducted over the course of the season. It is a very expensive proposition but it's the only way to do it right, in my opinion. that way, you would have more leverage against cyclists like Floyd Landis who states that his Testosterone/Epitestosterone ratio has always been high and that's the reason for his positive test in the TdF.
this is how T-Mobile "caught" Gonchar. his values were legal, but not his normal ones.
How can someone be a big enough idiot that he's on a team with strict anti-doping controls and he still dopes?? 
this, assuming the team is right, which hasn't been proven
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| cmfos |
Posted on 22-06-2007 17:28
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Stagiare
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issoisso wrote:
this is how T-Mobile "caught" Gonchar. his values were legal, but not his normal ones.
How can someone be a big enough idiot that he's on a team with strict anti-doping controls and he still dopes??
this, assuming the team is right, which hasn't been proven
yes it hasn't been proven but I doubt that T-Mobile would kick a guy of the caliber of Honchar off the team unless he'd really f***ed up. So I have a feeling that the team was right in this case. And my hat goes off to T-Mobile in that it appears that they are serious about policing their own riders. Hopefully they can begin to rebuild some credibility after this Deutsche Telekom disaster. |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 22-06-2007 17:29
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T-mobile must have been in rage...they doing everything to clean up a little of his bad reputation and dirty past..but some guy who is maybe on his last season..experienced for shure is stupid enough still use the dope |
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| Phanekim |
Posted on 22-06-2007 19:09
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UPDATE: Vino, Kloden, Kessler seem to be "Men in Black". Black jerseys seem to have something to do with Dr. Ferrari. Apparently during the Dauphine several voices in the cycling community had problems with some riders who were training in Cot Azur.
This article link below confirms everything and all arrows point to astana:
https://uk.eurospo...tions.html
"Tour de France favourite Alexandre Vinokourov has hit back at suggestions that top riders is avoiding random UCI doping controls.
CYCLING 2007 Criterium du Dauphine Libere Vinokourov - 0
The chief of the UCI's anti-doping programme, Anne Gripper, raised eyebrows in the cycling world last week when she suggested certain professionals are dressing in standard anonymous clothing, rather than that supplied by their team, in order to avoid controls.
Astana's star man Vinokourov, who lives in Monaco, reacted angrily to the suggestions, and bit back at Gripper in French daily L'Equipe.
"That's enough wild fantasy. If I wear a black shirt just while I train on the Cote d'Azur, then it's only to avoid being recognised by cycling enthusiasts. It's not exactly practical to have twenty of them on your rear wheel for hours on end when you're preparing for the Tour de France.
"I'm not the only one who does that: [World Champion] Paolo Bettini doesn't always wear his rainbow jersey. When Lance Armstrong rode in black in the Alps during his preparations for the Tour, pictures were printed in the papersand nobody said anything."
The 33-year-old demonstrated that he has not lost his sense of humour though, adding: "tomorrow I'll simply ride naked."
A spokeswoman for the Kazakh outfit, Corinne Druey, also played down suggestions the team was trying to avoid being tested, commenting:
"That happened once or twice. The professionals want to remain anonymous, in order not to be bothered by cycling tourists and amateur riders. Andreas Kloeden and Matthias Kessler were both tested five times in the space of one week."" |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 22-06-2007 21:12
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Tour de France Champion
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A "funny" thing has happened in Denmark today.
A Danish newspaper, BT, wrote on their internet site that Kurt Asle Arvesen was doped. No facts or anything - juat a small 5-line statement  Now, they have withdrawn the news, but Arvesen has already declared that he will sue the journalist to death |
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| Smoothie |
Posted on 22-06-2007 21:33
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Go him you cant put something without truth, just a matter of interest has any danish riders in past 5 years been banned for doping? |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 22-06-2007 23:24
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Bo Hamburger was fired from CSC for failing an EPO test but I think the B sample wasnt positive, or something.
Jesper Skibby admitted to doping in an autobiography.
Thats pretty much all I know about danes and doping.
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 27-06-2007 16:11
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Matthias Kessler (Astana) got caught positive with testosterone on the last 24th April.
And as mentioned in the "Dope in Giro"-thread, Mazzo is also been investigated at the moment. And then there's the "Men In Black"-case. Now, tell me again that Astana is a clean team  |
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