Alakagom wrote:
Valentin Iglinskiy tested positive for EPO at Eneco Tour 2014. Already admitted he took it by himself without any involvement from the team.
Was he in his last contract year?
Otherwise this just shows unfortunately that not only the very top might still go the wrong way.
Uhm not actually sure. His deal back to Astana was a weird one. They signed him to keep Maxim happy, if not Maxim he would have never been back, but since Maxim is the biggest Kazakh rider he demanded to have his bro back in the team
Wasn't it like Vino said to Maxim that if he wins a certain race he'll sign his brother, or is this just some cycling myth?
Kumar taking EPO at the age of 18... jeez... that's quite shocking.
Heard so too, think it was the Almaty .2 race. (Which, looking up now, had some startlist for a .2 classics in, well, Almaty.
And yeah, it's sad, isn't it, that you need to take EPO to win just a juniors race.
Let's hope it's an exception, it's not new after all (Ricco was doped up like hell in his junior days already too, IIRC).
Alakagom wrote:
Valentin Iglinskiy tested positive for EPO at Eneco Tour 2014. Already admitted he took it by himself without any involvement from the team.
Was he in his last contract year?
Otherwise this just shows unfortunately that not only the very top might still go the wrong way.
Uhm not actually sure. His deal back to Astana was a weird one. They signed him to keep Maxim happy, if not Maxim he would have never been back, but since Maxim is the biggest Kazakh rider he demanded to have his bro back in the team
Wasn't it like Vino said to Maxim that if he wins a certain race he'll sign his brother, or is this just some cycling myth?
Kumar taking EPO at the age of 18... jeez... that's quite shocking.
Disturbing, yes. Shocking, not really. At least if you have any idea how junior cycling works...
anderspcm wrote:
So you are saying junior riders in general are using doping?
In general, yes, most of the good ones are. Of course it is hard to estimate how many WorldTour riders are doping but my guess is that the amount amongst juniors is much higher.
The reason is obviously lesser controls whatsoever (excluding the most known races where the are very cautious). They usually just have nothing to lose as they are at the beginning of their careers - they just need to catch eye of some professional team scout.
But, of course, I can't talk the situation everywhere. I know how it works in a few countries but I expect it to be no different across Europe.
anderspcm wrote:
So you are saying junior riders in general are using doping?
In general, yes, most of the good ones are. Of course it is hard to estimate how many WorldTour riders are doping but my guess is that the amount amongst juniors is much higher.
The reason is obviously lesser controls whatsoever (excluding the most known races where the are very cautious). They usually just have nothing to lose as they are at the beginning of their careers - they just need to catch eye of some professional team scout.
But, of course, I can't talk the situation everywhere. I know how it works in a few countries but I expect it to be no different across Europe.
anderspcm wrote:
So you are saying junior riders in general are using doping?
In general, yes, most of the good ones are. Of course it is hard to estimate how many WorldTour riders are doping but my guess is that the amount amongst juniors is much higher.
The reason is obviously lesser controls whatsoever (excluding the most known races where the are very cautious). They usually just have nothing to lose as they are at the beginning of their careers - they just need to catch eye of some professional team scout.
But, of course, I can't talk the situation everywhere. I know how it works in a few countries but I expect it to be no different across Europe.
Can you specify which countries?
And while you are at it, could you specify which performance enchancing drugs they take? Is it primarily epo, cortisone, testosterone, steroids or?
Present:
Tinkoff-Saxo - AG2R - Colombian riders
Past:
Francisco Mancebo - Illes balears - Carlos Sastre - Kelme - Robbie McEwen
anderspcm wrote:
So you are saying junior riders in general are using doping?
In general, yes, most of the good ones are. Of course it is hard to estimate how many WorldTour riders are doping but my guess is that the amount amongst juniors is much higher.
The reason is obviously lesser controls whatsoever (excluding the most known races where the are very cautious). They usually just have nothing to lose as they are at the beginning of their careers - they just need to catch eye of some professional team scout.
But, of course, I can't talk the situation everywhere. I know how it works in a few countries but I expect it to be no different across Europe.
Can you specify which countries?
And while you are at it, could you specify which performance enchancing drugs they take? Is it primarily epo, cortisone, testosterone, steroids or?
Well, the situation I know best is Czech and Slovak Republic. Second hand information from my aboard racing mates is that at least Poland, Germany and Italy are quite similar.
The substance topic is really generally much over the line to talk in the peloton. Personally, as an average performing rider, I have never been offered anything. Specifically, I've known a few riders were using testosterone (exceptionally popular amongst track riders). But in most cases I don't know specific substance (e.g. my doctor who was helping some guys with this always talks about "shit", of course never revealing what he is applying or to whom). So what is most popular amongst junior peloton - that I'm not really able to answer.
Did not expect to get into this debate, I just thought big part of us raced as juniors and are aware that this is the world we live in.
anderspcm wrote:
So you are saying junior riders in general are using doping?
In general, yes, most of the good ones are. Of course it is hard to estimate how many WorldTour riders are doping but my guess is that the amount amongst juniors is much higher.
The reason is obviously lesser controls whatsoever (excluding the most known races where the are very cautious). They usually just have nothing to lose as they are at the beginning of their careers - they just need to catch eye of some professional team scout.
But, of course, I can't talk the situation everywhere. I know how it works in a few countries but I expect it to be no different across Europe.
This is so sad, man. Fuck life. Huuuge respect to Vanmarcke, though!
Not sure if anyone actually noticed this post.
This is actually terrible, Igor Decraene, 18 year old Belgian who is current Junior World Time trial champion died on August 30th. His body was apparently found on train tracks and some said it was suicide but the family dismissed these claims so it seems as if he was hit by a train. Either way, it is tragic especially for a young man with such great potential.
This is so sad, man. Fuck life. Huuuge respect to Vanmarcke, though!
Not sure if anyone actually noticed this post.
This is actually terrible, Igor Decraene, 18 year old Belgian who is current Junior World Time trial champion died on August 30th. His body was apparently found on train tracks and some said it was suicide but the family dismissed these claims so it seems as if he was hit by a train. Either way, it is tragic especially for a young man with such great potential.
matt17br wrote:
Well, Specialized renews with Tinkoff-Saxo.
Czech Republic's selection for Ponferrada:
Zdenek Stybar
Jan Barta
Petr Vakoc
Konig won't be there because the route is too easy for him.
Kreuziger because he is suspended.
This is not true, he is missing because of health problems, he is having since end of the Tour. He says he is not 100%, so he is not going, he is first replacement though
Barta will ride the TT (i hope for top10) and all three will ride the road race with Stybar as the captain.
Only czech female starter in senior category will again be our ice skating star and three time OG gold medalist Sablikova, she has no opposition in cycling here.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 11-09-2014 07:44
Inferio wrote:
Well, the situation I know best is Czech and Slovak Republic. Second hand information from my aboard racing mates is that at least Poland, Germany and Italy are quite similar.
The substance topic is really generally much over the line to talk in the peloton. Personally, as an average performing rider, I have never been offered anything. Specifically, I've known a few riders were using testosterone (exceptionally popular amongst track riders). But in most cases I don't know specific substance (e.g. my doctor who was helping some guys with this always talks about "shit", of course never revealing what he is applying or to whom). So what is most popular amongst junior peloton - that I'm not really able to answer.
Did not expect to get into this debate, I just thought big part of us raced as juniors and are aware that this is the world we live in.
Mentioning Germany with Italy is hilarious. I'm not saying there's no doping among the German juniors, but i'm confident that the number is quite small. I've been racing with with some of the top riders and had teammates who did races for as part of the national team and they (=teammates) all said that the top German riders were clean.
Among Dutch riders, the use of asthma spray was common, doesn't mean they were doping, though. Italians had a bad reputation and Russians were rumoured to have a good "medical" support, too.
Inferio wrote:
Well, the situation I know best is Czech and Slovak Republic. Second hand information from my aboard racing mates is that at least Poland, Germany and Italy are quite similar.
The substance topic is really generally much over the line to talk in the peloton. Personally, as an average performing rider, I have never been offered anything. Specifically, I've known a few riders were using testosterone (exceptionally popular amongst track riders). But in most cases I don't know specific substance (e.g. my doctor who was helping some guys with this always talks about "shit", of course never revealing what he is applying or to whom). So what is most popular amongst junior peloton - that I'm not really able to answer.
Did not expect to get into this debate, I just thought big part of us raced as juniors and are aware that this is the world we live in.
Mentioning Germany with Italy is hilarious. I'm not saying there's no doping among the German juniors, but i'm confident that the number is quite small. I've been racing with with some of the top riders and had teammates who did races for as part of the national team and they (=teammates) all said that the top German riders were clean.
Among Dutch riders, the use of asthma spray was common, doesn't mean they were doping, though. Italians had a bad reputation and Russians were rumoured to have a good "medical" support, too.
Why all the things that I hear of the Italy are always shit?
What a fucking reputation
Inferio wrote:
Well, the situation I know best is Czech and Slovak Republic. Second hand information from my aboard racing mates is that at least Poland, Germany and Italy are quite similar.
The substance topic is really generally much over the line to talk in the peloton. Personally, as an average performing rider, I have never been offered anything. Specifically, I've known a few riders were using testosterone (exceptionally popular amongst track riders). But in most cases I don't know specific substance (e.g. my doctor who was helping some guys with this always talks about "shit", of course never revealing what he is applying or to whom). So what is most popular amongst junior peloton - that I'm not really able to answer.
Did not expect to get into this debate, I just thought big part of us raced as juniors and are aware that this is the world we live in.
Mentioning Germany with Italy is hilarious. I'm not saying there's no doping among the German juniors, but i'm confident that the number is quite small. I've been racing with with some of the top riders and had teammates who did races for as part of the national team and they (=teammates) all said that the top German riders were clean.
Among Dutch riders, the use of asthma spray was common, doesn't mean they were doping, though. Italians had a bad reputation and Russians were rumoured to have a good "medical" support, too.
Well on the Germans just remember that Kittel underwent UV doping when he was 19/20 and I believe a few others in his team did too. While it wasn't banned at the time it is hard to claim that there were no efforts to enhance performance at the time in juniors or U23.
UV treatment isn't performance enhancing. It was a standard treatment for any patient, no matter if professional athlete or not, and still is for "normal" patients.
felix_29 wrote:
Mentioning Germany with Italy is hilarious. I'm not saying there's no doping among the German juniors, but i'm confident that the number is quite small. I've been racing with with some of the top riders and had teammates who did races for as part of the national team and they (=teammates) all said that the top German riders were clean.
Among Dutch riders, the use of asthma spray was common, doesn't mean they were doping, though. Italians had a bad reputation and Russians were rumoured to have a good "medical" support, too.
Honestly, I'm not surprised about Netherlands and Germany.
2 years ago I read an article in a Dutch newspaper about a former Dutch sports doctor / doping doctor, who said he had juniors e-mail him for doping help. One junior even said he was on EPO, HGH, pretty much everything you can imagine.
If I then hear stories about a young Kittel using not-yet-banned Ozone treatments... I don't think Germany and Netherlands are any different.
Italy certainly isn't some black sheep. The higher the number of (junior) riders, the more likely it is that some of them dope. As far as I can tell, Italy still holds most professional riders in peloton, and surely there's a huge number of junior talents as well. Besides, isn't Italy a county with some of the most strict doping controls?
Which reminds me, cycling fans like to say that cycling has stricter and more frequent controls compared to other sports. This seems to hold true for various countries as well within cycling. No reason to bash Italian committes, who seem to be at least doing their job, when they catch dopers on a frequent basis. Contrary to some other nations it seems.
@Inferio: Thanks for your input. I've never ridden junior ranks (cuz I never had the endurance as a lazy teenager to hold up the training), and your info kinda makes me happy I didn't try it. Always thought that riders got into doping in a later age, and I had always thought of those youngsters as a rather clean bunch but thinking about it now: Less control, more cheating. It's like in school; when a teacher does not walk his rounds during a test, students see no reason why not to cheat to pass the exam. A fool for me to think it'd be in sports different. Guess I thought of those youngsters in some idealistic way, and whilst for some it might certainly be true ("clean generation" ), it certainly does not hold up for everybody as seen in Kumar. Alas, might have been quite wrong about that in naive assumption. Good luck with your future riding, hope you make it big time!
Edited by Shonak on 11-09-2014 12:59
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