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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion
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| Anderis |
Posted on 24-08-2014 22:45
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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I told you that Alex Howes deserved a sprint upgrade. 
Edited by Anderis on 24-08-2014 22:45
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 29-09-2024 18:40
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| Dusen |
Posted on 24-08-2014 22:57
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Protected Rider
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Anderis wrote:
I told you that Alex Howes deserved a sprint upgrade.
Howes is 61 in the offical game, but 68/69 is in my opinion a fine stat for him. He will be able to contest sprints in smaller races especially if there is some hills on the stage(due to his 70 hill stat).
Besides that. I would also like to apply for a stat change of Kiel Reijnen, he is very poor in the official database
Kiel Rejnien
SP - 63 i would like to see him in the area around 68-69 as well - Maybe even 70 cause he is very consistent in the top in sprint finishes and has 2 sprint victories this season.
The Philadelphia Cycling Classic and Stage 1 of USA Pro Challenge |
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| ruben |
Posted on 24-08-2014 23:00
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Dusen wrote:
TankNL wrote:
@Dusen; you are getting this al the wrong way... I'm stating that this kind of stats discussion are all biased by believes of individuals. You are only fueling my statement...
And I'm not putting Contador down... If you would have read my thread you would have seen adjustment to put the calculated stats to actual database stats;
Mountains;
Valverde 83 -> 81
Rodriguez 82 -> 81
Nibali 83 -> 82
Contador 81 -> 82
Froome 81 -> 82
Peraud 80 -> 81
ten Dam 78 -> 79 (I'm dutch Smile )
This is my opinion... the only difference is that I'm not stating that other opinions are wrong (or even blasphemy :lol 
So basicly you put a bunch of results together and then tweak them a bit as you please?
Seems like the same thing to me ?
If you actually didn't touch the stats you got from your program, then that would be different.
Peraud should only be 80 and closer to 79 then 81, Valverde is not a 80 MO rider anymore the way i see it. And Nibali hasn't proven against the top climbers in the world, that he deserves the same stat as them.
Through the whole spring season he got put in his place by Froome and Contador. And on stage 8 Contador beat him as well.
Ten Dam i am in doubt about. Either you give him 79 and bad support stats or 78 and good support stats i think
There is no way Ten Dam should have higher stats than Van Garderen.
well, these are the TDF climb wattages
in actual figures, Ten Dam climbed 5th best of the top 10  |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 24-08-2014 23:28
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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But he on the other hand lost a shitload of time on stage 8 and more or less only has done well in the Tour this year. This should also be considered |
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| haasje33 |
Posted on 24-08-2014 23:41
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Sprinter
Posts: 1679
Joined: 08-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Ten Dam also did well in last year's Tour and Vuelta.
Inactive due to personal reasons.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 24-08-2014 23:48
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16362
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10038.70
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I think Howes could use 72 hill and 70 sprint honestly. No 68 sprinter will ever sprint in the game. Ever.
Reijnien deservers 70 as well.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 24-08-2014 23:53
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16362
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10038.70
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ruben wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
Dusen wrote:
TankNL wrote:
@Dusen; you are getting this al the wrong way... I'm stating that this kind of stats discussion are all biased by believes of individuals. You are only fueling my statement...
And I'm not putting Contador down... If you would have read my thread you would have seen adjustment to put the calculated stats to actual database stats;
Mountains;
Valverde 83 -> 81
Rodriguez 82 -> 81
Nibali 83 -> 82
Contador 81 -> 82
Froome 81 -> 82
Peraud 80 -> 81
ten Dam 78 -> 79 (I'm dutch Smile )
This is my opinion... the only difference is that I'm not stating that other opinions are wrong (or even blasphemy :lol
So basicly you put a bunch of results together and then tweak them a bit as you please?
Seems like the same thing to me ?
If you actually didn't touch the stats you got from your program, then that would be different.
Peraud should only be 80 and closer to 79 then 81, Valverde is not a 80 MO rider anymore the way i see it. And Nibali hasn't proven against the top climbers in the world, that he deserves the same stat as them.
Through the whole spring season he got put in his place by Froome and Contador. And on stage 8 Contador beat him as well.
Ten Dam i am in doubt about. Either you give him 79 and bad support stats or 78 and good support stats i think
There is no way Ten Dam should have higher stats than Van Garderen.
well, these are the TDF climb wattages
in actual figures, Ten Dam climbed 5th best of the top 10
It's not about wattages. Perhaps it's the fact that he put so much wattage in and still couldn't finish higher. Either way it's about results to make realistic gameplay.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 25-08-2014 00:22
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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haasje33 wrote:
Ten Dam also did well in last year's Tour and Vuelta.
Im talking about this year. I just dont think you can justify 79 MO just based on a good Tour de France and other mediocre results |
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| MartijnVDD |
Posted on 25-08-2014 08:44
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 801
Joined: 26-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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baseballlover312 wrote:
No 68 sprinter will ever sprint in the game. Ever.
They do, I've seen many non-sprinters get a top 10 because they started sprinting when the real sprinters are already out of energy. |
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| Evel1986 |
Posted on 25-08-2014 09:39
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Amateur
Posts: 5
Joined: 09-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Good Morning guys, at first my english isn´t very well, so don´t worry pls .
I had a Problem with the Stats of 2 Riders, at first Luka Mezgec.
He wins 3 Stages of the Tour of Catalunya in the March of this year, the Stages are not so easy for a Sprinter and you give them 67 Hill. I think he had 73 or more and Mountain 67. Potential 7.
The 2nd Driver is Nikias Arndt, also from Giant.
He wins this year the 3rd Stage of the Criterium du Dauphine.
He is a very strong rider in the Hills and a good Helper for the other Sprinter in the Team, like Mezgec, Sinkeldam and van Ahlstrand, i think Sprint 76, Hill 71, Mo 65, Potential 7 (Cancellara had 7, this old guy, so i think a young good rider had also the same:cool, TT 74, 2nd behind Martin by the German TT this year.
So, i hope you understand that i mean and hope you give me some answers at my feeling of the stats.
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| Naskela |
Posted on 25-08-2014 09:48
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Stagiare
Posts: 204
Joined: 31-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Evel1986 wrote:
Good Morning guys, at first my english isn´t very well, so don´t worry pls .
I had a Problem with the Stats of 2 Riders, at first Luka Mezgec.
He wins 3 Stages of the Tour of Catalunya in the March of this year, the Stages are not so easy for a Sprinter and you give them 67 Hill. I think he had 73 or more and Mountain 67. Potential 7.
The 2nd Driver is Nikias Arndt, also from Giant.
He wins this year the 3rd Stage of the Criterium du Dauphine.
He is a very strong rider in the Hills and a good Helper for the other Sprinter in the Team, like Mezgec, Sinkeldam and van Ahlstrand, i think Sprint 76, Hill 71, Mo 65, Potential 7 (Cancellara had 7, this old guy, so i think a young good rider had also the same:cool , TT 74, 2nd behind Martin by the German TT this year.
So, i hope you understand that i mean and hope you give me some answers at my feeling of the stats.
This db is so good i don't even want to change any stats but i definitely agree on the two you mentioned (Arndt and Mezgec)
Arndt deserves at least 75 for me in sprints and Mezgec no more than 70 in Hil.
If im not mistaken high potential for older riders means they wont drop as quickly. can someone confirm that?
And i want to add one myself, i feel Vichot deserves at least one more in Hil. with 75 he wouldnt be able to compete against riders like Betancur as he did in Paris - Nice but no worries from me, i already changed him just wanted to point it out 
Edited by Naskela on 25-08-2014 09:55
AG2R La Mondiale / Issy Paris Hand / Le Havre AC
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| Silvio Herklotz |
Posted on 25-08-2014 14:50
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1246
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Naskela wrote:
Evel1986 wrote:
Good Morning guys, at first my english isn´t very well, so don´t worry pls .
I had a Problem with the Stats of 2 Riders, at first Luka Mezgec.
He wins 3 Stages of the Tour of Catalunya in the March of this year, the Stages are not so easy for a Sprinter and you give them 67 Hill. I think he had 73 or more and Mountain 67. Potential 7.
The 2nd Driver is Nikias Arndt, also from Giant.
He wins this year the 3rd Stage of the Criterium du Dauphine.
He is a very strong rider in the Hills and a good Helper for the other Sprinter in the Team, like Mezgec, Sinkeldam and van Ahlstrand, i think Sprint 76, Hill 71, Mo 65, Potential 7 (Cancellara had 7, this old guy, so i think a young good rider had also the same:cool , TT 74, 2nd behind Martin by the German TT this year.
So, i hope you understand that i mean and hope you give me some answers at my feeling of the stats.
This db is so good i don't even want to change any stats but i definitely agree on the two you mentioned (Arndt and Mezgec)
Arndt deserves at least 75 for me in sprints and Mezgec no more than 70 in Hil.
I also don't agree on upping the HI stats. You will see that even in hillier stages, sprinters with low HI usually survive the hills. On the other hand, with 70 or even more HI a rider can f.e. compete well in MSR (until 2014). And I don't think Mezgec or Arndt should be considered sprinters with strong hill, but it was more about the lack of good sprinters in those races as they were not really sprinter-friendly.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 25-08-2014 16:36
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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About potentials, Arndt 7 potentials isn't justified because Cancellara has 7 potential.
The game doesn't work like that. Cancellara's potential will be bugged if you give him 2 potential, you need the high riders on 7 potential. Kent did some research into this.
Comparing Arndt's potential with Cancellara's is therefore not the right way to do it, since Arndt can then reach the level that Cancellara already has.
If you give a ''lower'' rider 7 potential, the rider has a decent chance to end up on 82 or 83 in his best stat, which is too high for Arndt imo.
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Cossack |
Posted on 25-08-2014 18:26
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Domestique
Posts: 582
Joined: 16-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Why is Demare (80) one stat higher than Bouhanni (79)? I don't really see the reason for that, maybe even it should be opposite.
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| Dusen |
Posted on 25-08-2014 18:30
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1173
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I think Demare and Bouhanni should either both be 80 or Maybe Demare on 79.
Demare really hasn't shown much since Tour of Dunkirk. Bouhanni have 4 Grand Tour wins this year. I think he deserves 80
My point is, that i think the two french guys should at least have same sprint stat |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 25-08-2014 19:11
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Reserved for something I might need. |
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| Dusen |
Posted on 25-08-2014 19:54
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1173
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matt17br wrote:
Dusen wrote:
I think Demare and Bouhanni should either both be 80 or Maybe Demare on 79.
Demare really hasn't shown much since Tour of Dunkirk. Bouhanni have 4 Grand Tour wins this year. I think he deserves 80
My point is, that i think the two french guys should at least have same sprint stat
Yep, same sp stat and same acc stat.
Another stat that I don't agree is Navardauskas higher than several pure sprinters, or maybe on the same level.
Another thing is Majka "only" on 78 (mo), I think he demonstrated he desrves 79 and 78 instead of 77 in HI.
Daniel Moreno, I think, this year has done nothing.So he must be lowered by 1.
Dumoulin on 80 and Froome on 79 (?). Cancellara 81 PRL, Martin 82 PRL, Dumoulin 81 PRL, Froome 79 PRL, Phinney 79 PRL, Kwiatky 81 PRL.
Dowsett and dennis 78 TT, while TVG 77.
Sagan too low in Cobbles. Think 79 is quite fair.
Lower cobbles for Ballan and Hushovd dn't know if 1-2 points for both.
For the sprints, yeah, Bouhanni on 80-80 (acc).
Nizzolo 79, too. He was very unlucky this year. A lot of 2nd spots but behind strongest riders like Bouhanni and Kristoff (at Vattenfall).
Navardauskas on 75-76 (sp)
And... where is Van Asbroeck, want him at 76-77 (same level as Bennett).
Dunno where's colbrelli but I think 75 sp is right for him.
Petacchi 75 sp.
For other suggestions wait until tomorrow afternoon, when my dl will finish.
(or just let me join pcmdaily expansion pack team  )
Ashbroeck 76-77 is overkill in my opinion. 73-74 is more like it.
TVG should be 78 in ITT he has proven really strong in that diciplin.
One can defend having Majka on 79 MO. But i feel that he should only get a +1 in either MO or HILL not both.
Nizzolo is a bit behind Bouhanni therefor 79 seems fair. (if Bouhanni gets 80 SP)
Dumoulin has proven to be the second strongest ITT guy in this season after Martin on several occasions.
Sagan 78-79 its a hard one to decide but 78 is fair, arguments could be made for 79 but its a 50/50 the way i see it
Edited by Dusen on 25-08-2014 19:54
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| Dusen |
Posted on 25-08-2014 20:49
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1173
Joined: 30-07-2013
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I know this isn't a stat thing.
But i was thinking that maybe the salary lvl for the top riders should be adjusted a bit.
Kittel has the highest salary and guys like Contador, Froome and Nibali aren't even in top 3 if i remember correctly. Think the big GC guns should dominate best paid riders infront of sprinters
Contador
Froome
Cancellara-Cavendish-Nibali
Kittel-Quintana-Sagan
If anything i think Kittel should at least be removed as best paid rider |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 26-08-2014 09:09
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Dusen wrote:
I know this isn't a stat thing.
But i was thinking that maybe the salary lvl for the top riders should be adjusted a bit.
Kittel has the highest salary and guys like Contador, Froome and Nibali aren't even in top 3 if i remember correctly. Think the big GC guns should dominate best paid riders infront of sprinters
Contador
Froome
Cancellara-Cavendish-Nibali
Kittel-Quintana-Sagan
If anything i think Kittel should at least be removed as best paid rider
Yep, and another thing that should be fixed is the popularities for some riders.
e.g.: Formolo 0 
Or Vuilllermoz 5, Reichenbach 2, Dayer Quintana 0... |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 26-08-2014 09:22
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Dusen wrote:
matt17br wrote:
Dusen wrote:
I think Demare and Bouhanni should either both be 80 or Maybe Demare on 79.
Demare really hasn't shown much since Tour of Dunkirk. Bouhanni have 4 Grand Tour wins this year. I think he deserves 80
My point is, that i think the two french guys should at least have same sprint stat
Yep, same sp stat and same acc stat.
Another stat that I don't agree is Navardauskas higher than several pure sprinters, or maybe on the same level.
Another thing is Majka "only" on 78 (mo), I think he demonstrated he desrves 79 and 78 instead of 77 in HI.
Daniel Moreno, I think, this year has done nothing.So he must be lowered by 1.
Dumoulin on 80 and Froome on 79 (?). Cancellara 81 PRL, Martin 82 PRL, Dumoulin 81 PRL, Froome 79 PRL, Phinney 79 PRL, Kwiatky 81 PRL.
Dowsett and dennis 78 TT, while TVG 77.
Sagan too low in Cobbles. Think 79 is quite fair.
Lower cobbles for Ballan and Hushovd dn't know if 1-2 points for both.
For the sprints, yeah, Bouhanni on 80-80 (acc).
Nizzolo 79, too. He was very unlucky this year. A lot of 2nd spots but behind strongest riders like Bouhanni and Kristoff (at Vattenfall).
Navardauskas on 75-76 (sp)
And... where is Van Asbroeck, want him at 76-77 (same level as Bennett).
Dunno where's colbrelli but I think 75 sp is right for him.
Petacchi 75 sp.
For other suggestions wait until tomorrow afternoon, when my dl will finish.
(or just let me join pcmdaily expansion pack team )
Ashbroeck 76-77 is overkill in my opinion. 73-74 is more like it.
TVG should be 78 in ITT he has proven really strong in that diciplin.
One can defend having Majka on 79 MO. But i feel that he should only get a +1 in either MO or HILL not both.
Nizzolo is a bit behind Bouhanni therefor 79 seems fair. (if Bouhanni gets 80 SP)
Dumoulin has proven to be the second strongest ITT guy in this season after Martin on several occasions.
Sagan 78-79 its a hard one to decide but 78 is fair, arguments could be made for 79 but its a 50/50 the way i see it
Yep, you're right for Van Asbroeck, thought he got better results in sprints this year.
TVG won only a ITT this year and it was a hilly one (USA PRO CHALLENGE) in the rest he sucked so i think 77 is better...
Majka was almost at the level of Nibali and on the same (if not better) of the podium's guys during the 3rd week of the tour and in the final of 2nd week so +1 MO seems right.
At pologne really demonstrated to deserve a boost and he confirmed that at USA Pro Challenge. So +1 on Hill, too.
For Sagan... well, last year went second at RVV behind only Spartacus and this year attacked again. At Paris-Roubaix finished with Cancellara, Vanmarcke and the others. So don't know why he should stay at 78 and Degenkolb, that got good results on the cobbles only this year has 79...
Edited by matt17br on 26-08-2014 09:45
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