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The Difficult Topics
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 14-09-2012 20:44
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Crommy wrote:
cactus-jack wrote:
One cold argue that the main reason the US supports Israel in their actions is due to the relatively large base of Jewish voters in the states. A Presidential candidate who is friendly towards Israel will be able to gain some votes which may help, even though it's far from the majority.
What does surprise me however, is the focus on religion during many of the US Presidential campaigns. Some presidents might focus heavily on Christians by showing their support to God. George Bush Senior and patriots, anyone?
With this focus on religion one would think that the vast majority of citizens who were eligable to vote would be either Christian or Jewish. Infact, a study done a few years back showed that the secular/atheist branch outnumber the Jewish branch 7 to 1 and the Christian 3 to 1. Ofcourse, these numbers might differ depending on the study, but it does point a bit of a picture.
Why is there such a focus on being friendly towards Israel if the goal is to capture the jewish voters? How come no one reaches out (in a somewhat decisive manner) to the non-religious voters?
Have you got a link to that study? Wikipedia disagrees
Unfortunately I don't have a link. The study I commented on was one I heard Richard Dawkins talking about, a speech in which he raised the same subject as I did.
Did the survey in Wikipedia only report the religous affiliation of those who are eligable to vote?
There's a fine line between "psychotherapist" and "psycho the rapist"
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| Crommy |
Posted on 14-09-2012 20:50
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World Champion
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cactus-jack wrote:
Crommy wrote:
cactus-jack wrote:
One cold argue that the main reason the US supports Israel in their actions is due to the relatively large base of Jewish voters in the states. A Presidential candidate who is friendly towards Israel will be able to gain some votes which may help, even though it's far from the majority.
What does surprise me however, is the focus on religion during many of the US Presidential campaigns. Some presidents might focus heavily on Christians by showing their support to God. George Bush Senior and patriots, anyone?
With this focus on religion one would think that the vast majority of citizens who were eligable to vote would be either Christian or Jewish. Infact, a study done a few years back showed that the secular/atheist branch outnumber the Jewish branch 7 to 1 and the Christian 3 to 1. Ofcourse, these numbers might differ depending on the study, but it does point a bit of a picture.
Why is there such a focus on being friendly towards Israel if the goal is to capture the jewish voters? How come no one reaches out (in a somewhat decisive manner) to the non-religious voters?
Have you got a link to that study? Wikipedia disagrees
Unfortunately I don't have a link. The study I commented on was one I heard Richard Dawkins talking about, a speech in which he raised the same subject as I did.
Did the survey in Wikipedia only report the religous affiliation of those who are eligable to vote?
18 and older I think, yes
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 14-09-2012 21:26
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cactus-jack wrote:
One cold argue that the main reason the US supports Israel in their actions is due to the relatively large base of Jewish voters in the states. A Presidential candidate who is friendly towards Israel will be able to gain some votes which may help, even though it's far from the majority.
What does surprise me however, is the focus on religion during many of the US Presidential campaigns. Some presidents might focus heavily on Christians by showing their support to God. George Bush Senior and patriots, anyone?
With this focus on religion one would think that the vast majority of citizens who were eligable to vote would be either Christian or Jewish. Infact, a study done a few years back showed that the secular/atheist branch outnumber the Jewish branch 7 to 1 and the Christian 3 to 1. Ofcourse, these numbers might differ depending on the study, but it does point a bit of a picture.
Why is there such a focus on being friendly towards Israel if the goal is to capture the jewish voters? How come no one reaches out (in a somewhat decisive manner) to the non-religious voters?
The phenomena that you are alluding too is actually very well understood. Evangelical Christians in this country have adopted the Israeli cause as their own. Therefore, conservative politicians have to pander to those voters (who are quite a large group in the Republican party) in order to stand a chance in their internal elections. The result is that each candidate within the GOP has to be more extreme than the next guy. It's a lot like how the Iranians have adopted the Palestinian cause.
Democrats have to do a similar dance. However, they aren't trying to please Evangelical Christians, they are trying to please American Jews. There is a large Jewish population in several key states, namely Florida. The way our elections work is that when a candidate wins a majority of a population in a state then they win all (with a few insignificant exceptions) of those states delegates. Florida is worth 27 delegates, which is a lot.
the 2000 election, which saw Bush take the White House was controversial in many ways, because their was a clusterfuck in Florida which ultimately ended up in the supreme court. Bush actually lost the popular election by 500,000 votes, but controversially won a court case which awarded Florida to his delegate count. That court case is widely considered one of the greatest blunders in the history of the court.
Here is an interesting link that I have been following.
https://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2...ctoral-map
Most of the country is red for Romney, but those are mostly states that have small populations. Obama has most of the big states in his corner, while Romney only has one. Florida is in the margin of error, so it's still a bit of a tossup.
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 14-09-2012 21:55
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Aquarius wrote:
That they don't mess with traditions might be an explanation. 
More seriously, about Israel, there's a risk to be seen as a traitor if a candidate doesn't show enough support. And, clichés apart, Jewish support is not only about their voters, but about the money that can be gathered through Jewish investments. A candidate will always think that money is always better in his pocket than in his opponent's.
About religion, more generally, you've to look at history, and who emigrated to the U.S.A. and why. At a time it was mostly people who tried to flee from Europe to escape persecutions because of their religion. A couple of years ago I read about a study that said being an atheist would seriously harm a candidate's chances. Even more than being Muslim. I'm not sure which importance educated people give to a candidate's religion, but more conservative people (why was I going to write "retards" instead ?) may give it an importance (and a vote). And of course they've to prove they're believers, and better twice than once (see how the Tea Party or its likes tried to make Obama a Muslim).
I'm still curious to read our American friends' view on this though.
Here, in comparison, hardly anyone gives a damn about a candidate's religion or lack of religion.
Money is likely to be very important, but I'm not sure how much Religion plays into it. I think many big donors are looking after themselves, particularly business people. Sheldon Adelson is a Jew, and has pledged something like 100 million dollars to Romney. But under Romney's tax plan he stands to walk away with two billion dollars more each year. A sound investment methinks. The Koch brothers, the Billionaire industrialists, are set to sink even more money into the Romney campaign, but support gay marriage and stem cell research. Certainly there are exceptions, but many are looking after their money.
As to the religiosity of the population at large, and how that dictates their voting patterns, I'm not entirely sure. I'm from California andCalifornia is on the coast, and the coasts tend to be more liberal/diverse than the rest of the country. Our 3 tier higher education system is the best in the country, so if religion is a non issue anywhere is would probably be here. In the last election for Governor the Democrat won to replace a moderate Republican in Arnold Schwarzenegger. His opponent was a business woman(currently the CEO of HP and formerly CEO of eBay). I can't remember religion ever being an issue. Immigration was probably the number one issue, and that was the case primarily because the Republican was posturing as hard on immigration and was found to have employed an undocumented immigrant as a maid for 10 years. Brown, the Democrat, crushed Whitman, by 15 percent.
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 14-09-2012 23:34
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baseballlover312 wrote:
I think Romney and Obama both shou.ld shove it up tere ass until we can find an actual canidate.
I promised to leave this thread as I usually get angry when I realize there's still people believing in God ... but at least let me post this rather funny JV tweet:
"After watching all the 2012 presidential campaign tv ads, I have decided who I will vote for: Bill Clinton."
Edited by CrueTrue on 14-09-2012 23:34
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 15-09-2012 03:18
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CrueTrue wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
I think Romney and Obama both shou.ld shove it up tere ass until we can find an actual canidate.
I promised to leave this thread as I usually get angry when I realize there's still people believing in God ... but at least let me post this rather funny JV tweet:
"After watching all the 2012 presidential campaign tv ads, I have decided who I will vote for: Bill Clinton."
You've made that quite clear. 
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:11
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I'm still amazed by how retarded people can be, to think one idiot American provoker (or a bunch of those) can become the Americans as a whole. 
Yes, I'm referring to that pathetic movie that has led to deaths, arsons and various destructions throughout the Arab world. |
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| acac |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:15
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Domestique
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Aquarius wrote:
I'm still amazed by how retarded people can be, to think one idiot American provoker (or a bunch of those) can become the Americans as a whole.
Yes, I'm referring to that pathetic movie that has led to deaths, arsons and various destructions throughout the Arab world.
has anyone even seen this movie?
i tried to find it but failed. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:19
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I haven't, actually. But I've read about what's in it.
On the shape it's crap and badly played, etc. It's amateur, with all this involves.
On the substance, it makes their prophet a gay pedophile, and that kind of things. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 21-11-2024 14:07
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:26
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Aquarius wrote:
I haven't, actually. But I've read about what's in it.
On the shape it's crap and badly played, etc. It's amateur, with all this involves.
On the substance, it makes their prophet a gay pedophile, and that kind of things.
What film is this? |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:27
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Aquarius wrote:
I haven't, actually. But I've read about what's in it.
On the shape it's crap and badly played, etc. It's amateur, with all this involves.
On the substance, it makes their prophet a gay pedophile, and that kind of things.
And ultimately this is one of the many things about this that pisses me off. It wasn't even satire, it was just insulting.
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| acac |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:28
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Domestique
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
I haven't, actually. But I've read about what's in it.
On the shape it's crap and badly played, etc. It's amateur, with all this involves.
On the substance, it makes their prophet a gay pedophile, and that kind of things.
What film is this?
a movie that made some arab people very angry, there are riots all over the world becuse of it. |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:29
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acac wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
I haven't, actually. But I've read about what's in it.
On the shape it's crap and badly played, etc. It's amateur, with all this involves.
On the substance, it makes their prophet a gay pedophile, and that kind of things.
What film is this?
a movie that made some arab people very angry, there are riots all over the world becuse of it.
I was hoping it had a name, I missed it on the news report.
Edited by wackojackohighcliffe on 15-09-2012 11:30
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:30
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"The Innocence of Muslims" is the title (at least re-translated to English). |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:33
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Found it. Cheers.
Seems quite accurate a film. And if you don't agree you're basically the new Hitler. |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:33
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Found it. Cheers.
Seems quite accurate a film. And if you don't agree you're basically the new Hitler.
That is going to cause quite a führer.
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:36
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CountArach wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Found it. Cheers.
Seems quite accurate a film. And if you don't agree you're basically the new Hitler.
That is going to cause quite a führer.
That is going to cause a raft of Nazi-based puns. |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:37
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Still have the link in my tab:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's...'s_law |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:39
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It's a shame we haven't had a serious one yet. This thread is too polite. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 15-09-2012 11:39
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
CountArach wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Found it. Cheers.
Seems quite accurate a film. And if you don't agree you're basically the new Hitler.
That is going to cause quite a führer.
That is going to cause a raft of Nazi-based puns.
Yeah, like very time, I could nazi that coming. |
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