Movistar wrote:
This thread has just been flooded with ludicrous opinions by people who I thought were a little smarter than that.
First of all this is the single biggest race of the year for many riders, if you did not know for 100% that the race would be neutralized because of the train, every single one of you would have done the exact same thing in that situation and went across the tracks. To say otherwise is just simply not being honest with yourself.
As mentioned by Murfi, the fault rests solely on the organizers of the race for not clearly defining what would happen in that situation. To add that they had to know the train could be an issue or they didnt not do their job.
I honestly cant believe some of things I am reading here.
First of all it's irrelevant if we would of done the the same thing as the riders, that's not the issue here. There is a rule in place for this exact thing and that is to stop at the gates when a train is coming, be it Paris-Roubaix or an amateur race, the riders broke that rule so should be punished, there is no grey area there for the group who decided to go through once the gates were down. The win at all costs mentality and lax enforcing of the rules of the sport is a big problem in the sport, this is why we have had such an issue with P.E.D's. Why is it okay for them to do this? Do you not care about what would of happened had GVA slipped on the track? The Train driver who would of had a bloodied body of the rider on the front of his train, the spectatctors standing there watching a human being crushed, the family of the rider who would have to live with there son, husband, father being dead because of his selfishness and greed. This was a serious incident and as per usual people are dismissing it because it was Paris-Roubaix and it's a massive race so it's okay. They broke the rules of the sport but the also broke the law!
I honestly can't believe you would defend it
Except none of that did happen. You cant just create this fantasy land in which what the riders did was the worst thing in the history of the sport just to try and prove some point you have.
Nothing happened, and the last rider who crossed wasnt even close to the train and would have had plenty of time to recover if he somehow slipped as you keep saying.
I dont know if you saw someone get hit by a train as a child or something but that is the only logical explanation for how you are talking about this incident.
Will you be in here yelling at the riders if one of them crashes on the decent for trying to hard?
This is Paris Roubaix, not some amateur race, they are not equal no matter what you continue to say. Be angry if you want but it 100% should be directed at the UCI and the organizers.
Movistar wrote:
This thread has just been flooded with ludicrous opinions by people who I thought were a little smarter than that.
First of all this is the single biggest race of the year for many riders, if you did not know for 100% that the race would be neutralized because of the train, every single one of you would have done the exact same thing in that situation and went across the tracks. To say otherwise is just simply not being honest with yourself.
As mentioned by Murfi, the fault rests solely on the organizers of the race for not clearly defining what would happen in that situation. To add that they had to know the train could be an issue or they didnt not do their job.
I honestly cant believe some of things I am reading here.
First of all it's irrelevant if we would of done the the same thing as the riders, that's not the issue here. There is a rule in place for this exact thing and that is to stop at the gates when a train is coming, be it Paris-Roubaix or an amateur race, the riders broke that rule so should be punished, there is no grey area there for the group who decided to go through once the gates were down. The win at all costs mentality and lax enforcing of the rules of the sport is a big problem in the sport, this is why we have had such an issue with P.E.D's. Why is it okay for them to do this? Do you not care about what would of happened had GVA slipped on the track? The Train driver who would of had a bloodied body of the rider on the front of his train, the spectatctors standing there watching a human being crushed, the family of the rider who would have to live with there son, husband, father being dead because of his selfishness and greed. This was a serious incident and as per usual people are dismissing it because it was Paris-Roubaix and it's a massive race so it's okay. They broke the rules of the sport but the also broke the law!
I honestly can't believe you would defend it
Except none of that did happen. You cant just create this fantasy land in which what the riders did was the worst thing in the history of the sport just to try and prove some point you have.
Nothing happened, and the last rider who crossed wasnt even close to the train and would have had plenty of time to recover if he somehow slipped as you keep saying.
I dont know if you saw someone get hit by a train as a child or something but that is the only logical explanation for how you are talking about this incident.
Will you be in here yelling at the riders if one of them crashes on the decent for trying to hard?
This is Paris Roubaix, not some amateur race, they are not equal no matter what you continue to say. Be angry if you want but it 100% should be directed at the UCI and the organizers.
Exactly! Thank you! As I said, even GvA at the end was well away from the train, as you can perfectly see from the video Gustavovskiy shared. They had plently of time.
Although, Movistar, the point you raise about someone getting hit by a train, Strydz did mention that he was friends with a train driver who was involved in a crash.
So trespassing the law is fine, if nothing happens. Nice example for others, i hope i wont meet you guys in a car or something ever in my life. I also suppose that doping is fine, until you got caught.
Something sadictic in me is thinking about what would happen if GVA was teared apart by train, that would finally give some sense to bunch of people.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
So trespassing the law is fine, if nothing happens. Nice example for others, i hope i wont meet you guys in a car or something ever in my life. I also suppose that doping is fine, until you got caught.
Something sadictic in me is thinking about what would happen if GVA was teared apart by train, that would finally give some sense to bunch of people.
I don't think you can compare this to doping, but anyway, it's not that it's breaking the law in everyday life, but it's breaking the law in the constructs of a sporting event. It's kind of like this; if in a rugby match two (or more) players get into a fight, they get sin-binned or maybe sent off, and that's the end of that. However, if people fight in everyday life then they get punished in accordance with the law. Sure, it's not really like in cycling, but it's a way of expressing it.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
So trespassing the law is fine, if nothing happens. Nice example for others, i hope i wont meet you guys in a car or something ever in my life. I also suppose that doping is fine, until you got caught.
Something sadictic in me is thinking about what would happen if GVA was teared apart by train, that would finally give some sense to bunch of people.
I don't think you can compare this to doping, but anyway, it's not that it's breaking the law in everyday life, but it's breaking the law in the constructs of a sporting event. It's kind of like this; if in a rugby match two (or more) players get into a fight, they get sin-binned or maybe sent off, and that's the end of that. However, if people fight in everyday life then they get punished in accordance with the law. Sure, it's not really like in cycling, but it's a way of expressing it.
Thanks for finally agreeing with most of us Edited by ggDonovan on 15-04-2015 08:24
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
So trespassing the law is fine, if nothing happens. Nice example for others, i hope i wont meet you guys in a car or something ever in my life. I also suppose that doping is fine, until you got caught.
Something sadictic in me is thinking about what would happen if GVA was teared apart by train, that would finally give some sense to bunch of people.
I don't think you can compare this to doping, but anyway, it's not that it's breaking the law in everyday life, but it's breaking the law in the constructs of a sporting event. It's kind of like this; if in a rugby match two (or more) players get into a fight, they get sin-binned or maybe sent off, and that's the end of that. However, if people fight in everyday life then they get punished in accordance with the law. Sure, it's not really like in cycling, but it's a way of expressing it.
Thanks for finally agreeing with most of us
I never said the riders shouldn't be punished, I was merely saying that I understood their actions.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
So trespassing the law is fine, if nothing happens. Nice example for others, i hope i wont meet you guys in a car or something ever in my life. I also suppose that doping is fine, until you got caught.
Something sadictic in me is thinking about what would happen if GVA was teared apart by train, that would finally give some sense to bunch of people.
I don't think you can compare this to doping, but anyway, it's not that it's breaking the law in everyday life, but it's breaking the law in the constructs of a sporting event. It's kind of like this; if in a rugby match two (or more) players get into a fight, they get sin-binned or maybe sent off, and that's the end of that. However, if people fight in everyday life then they get punished in accordance with the law. Sure, it's not really like in cycling, but it's a way of expressing it.
Thanks for finally agreeing with most of us
I never said the riders shouldn't be punished, I was merely saying that I understood their actions.
The french rail company woundn't even consider to sue the riders if the organization DQed them and the UCI fined somebody hard.
For me the solution wouldn't involve the courts. The PR organizations have to DQ all the riders who traspassed and UCI investigate what PR organization did and fine them if needed.
It's the same as in Pais Vasco with the cones, a negligence of the organization. But in this case, there was a negligence by the riders too.
Future solution. Stop the trains for one day? Sure, why not. But until this don't happen the riders must follow the rules and stop every time a level is closed or be punished.
I must say, I am surprised there is any discussion about this. The rule is clear on this matter and it's there to protect the riders. You might be foolish enough to think you don't have to wear a seatbelt but by law you do (quite sensibly) and if you get caught without you get fined. Even ignoring that, writing something like "...the last rider who crossed wasnt even close to the train and would have had plenty of time to recover if he somehow slipped" ignores the fact that this was a TGV which regularly reaches 320 kmph (200 mph), it'd be upon you in a heartbeat. Thankfully, it wasn't going that fast, probably the train driver was warned and told to slow down, but you shouldn't gamble your life on that.
Also, both the "real law" and cycling rules apply here. Apart from what the UCI might/should do the French authorities would be well within their rights to pursue this in court independently. Which might indeed happen... "France's national rail company SNCF filed a lawsuit Monday after cyclists on a prominent race crossed train tracks just seconds before a high-speed train whizzed past. SNCF announced the move in a statement, saying the incident during the Paris-Roubaix race Sunday in northern France was "irresponsible" and the cyclists could have been hit by the TGV train."
Cycleman123 wrote:
Exactly! Thank you! As I said, even GvA at the end was well away from the train, as you can perfectly see from the video Gustavovskiy shared. They had plently of time.
Although, Movistar, the point you raise about someone getting hit by a train, Strydz did mention that he was friends with a train driver who was involved in a crash.
You're missing the big picture by rougly the length of a train (). It's not about what did happen but about what might happen next time. Yes nothing happened this time but what about next time?
Now the riders will be of the mindset that if there are enough of them in a group they can jump the level crossing and not get punished, and might be able to gain a winning amount of time.
Except next time one of them slips on the tacks. We've all seen numerous incidents where riders slip on tram/train tracks in cities (or if you're Dan Martin or Rabobank you can slip on litteraly nothing) and these are no different. One wheel goes one centimeter out of place and the rider is on the ground. From 50km/h.... in a group of 40 riders...
Now we've got a 10/20 rider pile up on the train tracks and easily the worst disaster in cyclings history.
Rules, especially safety rules, are designed to prevent the worst case situations. Gotta agree with Avin (and this isn't just directed at you but several people) but i fear for a day i'd come across some of you in a car or on a bicycle.
Gonna move onto the "plenty of time" part. As i've said a few times i know someone who died on a level crossing. They didn't fall or trip on the tracks. They weren't in a broken down car. They weren't tied down by banditos. They were going home and thought they had enough time to get across and cut a few seconds off their journey home... except they misjudged the speed and distance of the train... This was a A grade student at a good school, a really smart guy. His heart beat was low and he had no external distractions. He just got the situation wrong and paid the ultimate price.
Equally i've had a friend who was driving go to skip a level crossing thinking they had enough time to get across (i was in the car behind) and i couldn't measure the gap between his front bumper and the train as it went past... It was a matter of centimeters from the worst case scenario, and all because he misjuged "plenty of time".
What you might percieve as plenty of time can be very very wrong. I doubt a rider at speed in the middle of the pack focused on racing is in any shape to make a judegement call about the time it will take the train to reach them. And if they get it wrong it's death plain and simple. No second chances.
DQ'ing or fining or banning riders who jumped the crossing on Sunday isn't about devaluing the result or having a rider i like more winning. It is about sending a clear statement to all Pro's, all U23's (who we've seen cutting it even closer on a bend), all Juniors, all Amateurs and all regular joes, that: skipping a level crossing is dangerous, it is illegal in most countries, and that breaking clear UCI rule will carry the consequence.
It's such a high profile event the footage has been all around the internet. You can go to YT and read the comments of non-cyclists in there thousands expressing disgust at the actions of law breaking cyclists and growing their dislike of the everyday man. The UCI has a responsibility to all levels of cycling that it will fail to meet if it doesn't take some action.
The French Railway company is pressing the police for an official investigation. If that isn't a clear sign the riders did something wrong and should be punished i don't know what is.... probably only a death to some of you, and looking around at PR and the U23RVV we are skating very close to that moment....
TheManxMissile wrote:
Except next time one of them slips on the tacks. We've all seen numerous incidents where riders slip on tram/train tracks in cities (or if you're Dan Martin or Rabobank you can slip on litteraly nothing) and these are no different. One wheel goes one centimeter out of place and the rider is on the ground. From 50km/h.... in a group of 40 riders...
Now we've got a 10/20 rider pile up on the train tracks and easily the worst disaster in cyclings history.
PCM is more realistic then we realise.
I was racing tbe Giro a few days ago on PCM, Dan Martin attacked with Kelderman, a kilometre further up the mountain, they both crashed.
I swear that PCM has some special file for 'Gesink Crashing' and it just got mixed up with Kelderman. , he crashes far too often, or maybe it's just Belkin leaders.
Movistar wrote: Will you be in here yelling at the riders if one of them crashes on the decent for trying to hard?
This is Paris Roubaix, not some amateur race, they are not equal no matter what you continue to say. Be angry if you want but it 100% should be directed at the UCI and the organizers.
How is that the same thing? There is no rule is place about going to hard on a descent, no speed limit or anything like that, i'm annoyed at the race organises as I have stated many times but that doesn't absolve the riders who broke the rules. Riders like Paolini and fans like you can moan all you want about this being Paris-Roubaix and its important but fact is fact, there is a rule in place for this and they broke it! You can't deny that can you? If the rules aren't enforced then why have them at all? Also my passion on this has now been explained twice so if you can't be bothered reading it then don't quote me please.
Also well said TMM
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To be fair, each time I cross rail road tracks (And on my usual training round I do it like 3-4 times), I'm a little tiny bit concerned I could crash. You never know.
Also, strydz your new avatar is top notch!
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
Although, Movistar, the point you raise about someone getting hit by a train, Strydz did mention that he was friends with a train driver who was involved in a crash.
Movistar wrote: Will you be in here yelling at the riders if one of them crashes on the decent for trying to hard?
This is Paris Roubaix, not some amateur race, they are not equal no matter what you continue to say. Be angry if you want but it 100% should be directed at the UCI and the organizers.
How is that the same thing? There is no rule is place about going to hard on a descent, no speed limit or anything like that, i'm annoyed at the race organises as I have stated many times but that doesn't absolve the riders who broke the rules. Riders like Paolini and fans like you can moan all you want about this being Paris-Roubaix and its important but fact is fact, there is a rule in place for this and they broke it! You can't deny that can you? If the rules aren't enforced then why have them at all? Also my passion on this has now been explained twice so if you can't be bothered reading it then don't quote me please.
Also well said TMM
And you can continue to moan all you want about how this is the worst thing to ever happen in cycling. You are just selectively yelling about this rule when rules are broken every single race and I dont see you saying a thing about it.
Are you going to come in and rage every stage when a rider holds onto the car for way to long, or the time is extended so racers arnt DQed.
Until you do that, give it up with this holier than though crap about crossing train tracks when the danger was less than events in almost every race.
Wanting rules to be enforced just because they are a rule is idiotic. Using common sense and taking an incident at face value is a much better practice.
). It's not about what did happen but about what might happen next time. Yes nothing happened this time but what about next time?
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
