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Vuelta á España 2014
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| jacobjc88 |
Posted on 29-08-2014 00:00
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Stromeon wrote:
I'm no ammattipyoraily or anything but by some very rough calculations I make it about 6.7-6.8 W/kg for the lead trio which is rather impressive, even considering the fact that it's a short climb.
And this is why you are not expert 
Saw ammattipyorily calculating it to around 6.23 w/kg for 13.08 minutes. Go to twitter if you want it confirmed 
This is quite far from Froome's ride up Ax-3 domaine last year:
Using this simulator @ammattipyoraily calculated Froome's power output at 6.5 w/kg for 21:41 over the 7.85 km climbing portion, and 6.37 w/kg for 23:14 over the full 8.9 km.
Huge difference in my opinion  And seems like they were no way near 6.7-6.8 w/kg
Present:
Tinkoff-Saxo - AG2R - Colombian riders
Past:
Francisco Mancebo - Illes balears - Carlos Sastre - Kelme - Robbie McEwen
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| Shonak |
Posted on 29-08-2014 00:02
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Well, either way, Valverde wouldn't be far off from being the best. Performing in almost every race he enters, scoring points year in year out en masse. We are talking about a guy who is one of the top riders in every ranking every year. Yet missing that prestigious Tour win/podium as well as the Road Race rainbow jersey... and cycling is after all about winning. But hey, Cancellara is missing both too.
Then again, Valv has 5 WC medals, a true impressive list of victories (two monument wins of wonderful La Doyenne) and is arguably the most complete rider of the past decade. But no, I don't think he's best.
He may back it up with results, but honestly not with performances, which is vital for me. Contador has Fuente De, Guardiagrele and god knows how many climbs in which he left people in awe. Boonen and Cance have both Paris-Roubaix solo. Evans has... well, Evans has some great fighting spirit I guess.
Valv also never had that unbeatable winning aura that would be needed, where people say, "how can we beat him?". And neither does he have the highest champion aura, as much as I'd like to see it in him. Contador and Cancellara have that. The way they are talked about, they way they race. Other riders see them as idols and naturally as their toughest opponents. Purito said a few days ago that Contador is a race favourite as long as he (Bertie) decides he's no longer. Voeckler said, it's scary when Contador attacks. You know, that stuff.
Lastly, and that's a bit shallow now: Valverde has never won Velo d'Or. Which kinda says, that he's missing that killer year. The year where people said, "wow, damn dude, go easy next one, will ya?", and everybody speculates, just how crazy he'll be next year. A year that turns him into a cycling god, if only for a year. Something like Gilbert 2010, Froome 2013 or Contador's streak of Grand Tour triumphs.
In the end, it doesn't matter much. It's up to preferences and what you weight more. Classics, Grand Tours, Rainbow curses? I guess if Valverde was to become World Champion, I think the jersey would be on the shoulders of someone who does it honour all year long. That's something that matters, and also something that's not a given as we've seen. In contrast to that, being the "best" in sports is just something that people talk about to split heads about.
One could after all might as well give Armstrong or Ullrich those honours, as they still fall into that time frame. And heck, Armstrong has been up in that juice, but guy was a freaking machine in those 3 weeks in July, if only for that time though.
Personally, I'd go with Contador because he won 7 Grand Tours, kept 5 of those and has that whole race aura & sensation going for him, that draws in crowds, media & rivals alike, the real deal, one of a kind - and probably the rider, next to maybe Cance, the rider who will be remembered the longest.
Edited by Shonak on 29-08-2014 00:04
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 29-08-2014 00:27
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Good input and something I didn't consider. Strangely, the 'unbeaten' is not unbeatable as his numerous (way too much) secondary, almost-wins proves. You are probably right when suggesting that his aura, reputation and respect isn't the same as Cance and Contador. Say, if he just turned one of his WC 2nd, 3rd and whatever into just one win, and same for the Liege placements which would put him at 3, it would make a much better case. But the major thing here is the Tour. In '05, '06 and '13 he was more than capable of going on the Podium (realistically winning in '06), but as we all know, bad luck has hampered him.
I dont really know who I would consider the best of this era, as my comment at first was said jokingly when I realised there might be some truth in it. If we are counting WT-points, Valverde is the flat out winner, but there is so much more to it. I dont know. |
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 29-08-2014 01:01
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Nations classification:
1  Spain | 68h24'36" | 2  Colombia | +1'55" | 3  the Netherlands | +2'46" | 4  Italy | +3'58" | 5  France | +4'26" | 6  Belgium | +21'02" | 7  Germany | +21'54" | 8  Switzerland | +21'59" | 9  Australia | +27'12" | 10  Russia | 35'19" | 11  United Kingdom | +39'31" | 12  United States | +55'04" | 13  Poland | +1h23'41" | 14  New Zealand | +1h29'36" | 15  Belarus | +1h48'03" | 16  Kazakhstan | +1h51'43" | 17  Eritrea | +2h01'24" | 18  South Africa | +2h02'33" |
Spain really upped their game this stage, I think it's highly unlikely they will drop from the first place in the rest Vuelta.
Edited by fosforgasXIII on 29-08-2014 01:05
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| sammyt93 |
Posted on 29-08-2014 02:51
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Classics Specialist
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I'm not sure I agree with this suggestion but I feel it needs to be put out there.
Mark Cavendish
I know it seems like a bit of an odd choice but he's got multiple stage wins in multiple GT's (25 in the tour, 15 in the Giro and 3 in the Vuelta for a total of 43), he's won the Points Jersey in all 3 GT's, has won the World Championship, Won on the Champs Elysees 4 years in a row which is viewed as the unofficial sprinters world championship, and has won Milan San Remo.
He's also had that champions aura about him you were talking about as when he was at HTC it was often left completely up to them to organise the sprint as he was such a favourite during that time and the team was setup perfectly for him.
And at 29 there's still time for him to add to his list of achievements and further solidify his claim.
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| Movistar |
Posted on 29-08-2014 05:33
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Domestique
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I have given Valverde plenty of shit for his riding style on big climbs but I give him a ton of credit for the win today. It was a pretty fun stage in the end except of course the annoying Froomebot and his lovely power meter. Why those are not banned I will never know.
I honestly thought Quintana had it as he looked very relaxed, got paced by Valverde and kept his bottle the longest which I found interesting. Maybe this wasnt steep enough for him which is very possible but surprising none the less. |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 29-08-2014 05:46
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World Champion
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Riis123 wrote:
Good input and something I didn't consider. Strangely, the 'unbeaten' is not unbeatable as his numerous (way too much) secondary, almost-wins proves. You are probably right when suggesting that his aura, reputation and respect isn't the same as Cance and Contador. Say, if he just turned one of his WC 2nd, 3rd and whatever into just one win, and same for the Liege placements which would put him at 3, it would make a much better case. But the major thing here is the Tour. In '05, '06 and '13 he was more than capable of going on the Podium (realistically winning in '06), but as we all know, bad luck has hampered him.
I dont really know who I would consider the best of this era, as my comment at first was said jokingly when I realised there might be some truth in it. If we are counting WT-points, Valverde is the flat out winner, but there is so much more to it. I dont know.
This all really makes you think, because he did truly have the potential to be a Tour Winner at one point, but has never even finished on the podium due to lots of bad luck or silly mistakes when he was strong enough. He's been so close to being a massive star and go down as one of the greatest ever, but alas he has all those 2nd places
Really makes me wish he could have won the rainbows just once. He's been on the podium probably a record amount of times without winning, but I dont know.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 29-08-2014 07:28
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World Champion
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valverde321 wrote:
This all really makes you think, because he did truly have the potential to be a Tour Winner at one point, but has never even finished on the podium due to lots of bad luck or silly mistakes when he was strong enough. He's been so close to being a massive star and go down as one of the greatest ever, but alas he has all those 2nd places
Really makes me wish he could have won the rainbows just once. He's been on the podium probably a record amount of times without winning, but I dont know.
You mean when he was doped to the eyeballs by Fuentes?
Anyway great finale yesterday, it was a pleasure to see the worlds best climbers battle it out on such a steep road and hot weather. I am happy for Bertie, it seems like his pre-Vuelta words were the usual mind games with opponents.
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| Dusen |
Posted on 29-08-2014 07:55
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Todays stage another one for Degenkolb, or maybe Matthews?
I have doubt about Bouhanni and his chances to follow on the last 4-5 km.
The climb doesn't look to steep on the profile, so don't think we will see the GC guys make a move. |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 29-08-2014 08:14
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World Champion
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
This all really makes you think, because he did truly have the potential to be a Tour Winner at one point, but has never even finished on the podium due to lots of bad luck or silly mistakes when he was strong enough. He's been so close to being a massive star and go down as one of the greatest ever, but alas he has all those 2nd places
Really makes me wish he could have won the rainbows just once. He's been on the podium probably a record amount of times without winning, but I dont know.
You mean when he was doped to the eyeballs by Fuentes?
Anyway great finale yesterday, it was a pleasure to see the worlds best climbers battle it out on such a steep road and hot weather. I am happy for Bertie, it seems like his pre-Vuelta words were the usual mind games with opponents.
Doping aside
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 08-12-2025 23:37
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| Shonak |
Posted on 29-08-2014 09:04
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sammyt93 wrote:
Mark Cavendish
I know it seems like a bit of an odd choice but he's got multiple stage wins in multiple GT's (25 in the tour, 15 in the Giro and 3 in the Vuelta for a total of 43), he's won the Points Jersey in all 3 GT's, has won the World Championship, Won on the Champs Elysees 4 years in a row which is viewed as the unofficial sprinters world championship, and has won Milan San Remo.
Not at all an odd choice. Once he gets his record Tour wins, he has a real claim in my opinion. Star-wise, he's already as big as it gets.
Alas, imagine Valverde winning Ponferrada and Lombardia end of year, and then going for MSR (new route) & La Doyenne in rainbow jersey. All within range. But with his luck, he's probably ending up 2nd & 3rd in all of them.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 29-08-2014 11:41
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Classics Specialist
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jacobjc88 wrote:
Stromeon wrote:
I'm no ammattipyoraily or anything but by some very rough calculations I make it about 6.7-6.8 W/kg for the lead trio which is rather impressive, even considering the fact that it's a short climb.
And this is why you are not expert
Saw ammattipyorily calculating it to around 6.23 w/kg for 13.08 minutes. Go to twitter if you want it confirmed
This is quite far from Froome's ride up Ax-3 domaine last year:
Using this simulator @ammattipyoraily calculated Froome's power output at 6.5 w/kg for 21:41 over the 7.85 km climbing portion, and 6.37 w/kg for 23:14 over the full 8.9 km.
Huge difference in my opinion And seems like they were no way near 6.7-6.8 w/kg
My bad, I made the mistake of using the (apparently incorrect) official Vuelta profile which gives the gradient as 7.8% for the 4.6km; whereas he uses 3.99km @ 10.4%. An increase in gradient (using the Ferrari method) leads to a decrease in W/kg so if I put 10.4% into my calculations rather than 7.8% I end up with 6.21W/kg which isn't far off.
Basically I used the profile below including the flat part which skews the numbers, and he started from after the flat part.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 29-08-2014 13:18
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Casual facebook-conversation with the danish commentator on Valverde:
Hej Dennis. Et input til morgendagens etape kunne være en snak om Valverde som hans generations bedste cykelrytter efter hans etapesejr i går.
Jeg ved, at det lyder lidt langt ude, men hvis man kigger på hans resultater over de seneste 10 år, finder man simpelthen ikke en, som har scoret så mange point og kørt så konstant, som han har.
Man kunne eventuelt snakke en Cancellara, Contador, Tom Boonen og måske endda Cadel Evans indover her.
Vi snakker altså om en mand, med ET VÆLD af etapesejre, massevis af lige ved og næsten i VM, fantastiske præstationer i Vueltaen igennem 10 år og en Tour de France forbandelse med en del top-10.
For ikke at glemme Ardernnerne, hvor han Ã…R EFTER Ã…R vinder eller slutter langt oppe i top-10.
Man kan selvfølgelig mene (hvilket jeg gør), at Cancellara og Contador er bedre ryttere set over et årti med de HELT store sejre og den frygtindgydende respekt og det omdømme, som de har. Men ingen af dem er så komplet, så konstant som Valverde.
Håber, at du læser det her og det ville betyde meget, hvis du og Rolf tog diskussionen op under etapen i morgen. Nyder jeg udsendelser, god vind.
18 minutes ago
Hej Andreas. Tak for input. Det er et rigtig relevant og godt emne, og vi har faktisk tænkt os at tale Valverde i dag. Hvor meget vi når det på transmissionen ved jeg endnu ikke - men ihvertfald på udsendelsen på PLAY efter etapen. Jeg er grundlæggende enig i at Valverde samlet set må være den bedste rytter i verden de seneste 10-12 år, målt på topplaceringer i forskellige typer store løb. Mvh Dennis
Basically he says that he agrees that Valverde has been the best rider in the last 10-12 years based on his top-placements in various of the big races throughout the seasons and that is is something they wanna discuss in the studio and the stage. Hyped on whether he mentions the conversation |
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| deek12345 |
Posted on 29-08-2014 13:23
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looks like froomes crashed and is 1.20 back on peloton
Edited by deek12345 on 29-08-2014 13:24
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 29-08-2014 13:27
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Sprinter
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FFS Froome... Why did i pick him in my velogames? |
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| deek12345 |
Posted on 29-08-2014 13:33
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seems froome made it back in to the peloton |
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 29-08-2014 13:34
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Yup, the breakaway is going away now aswell. |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 29-08-2014 13:45
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Was it a bad crash, any sign of injury? Seems to be missing the naturality and maybe confidence of easy riding in the peloton lately, a true crash spiral started there in Dauphine. Hoping he gains again the "crash-free" peloton riding-"ability" in winter break actually.
Edited by Shonak on 29-08-2014 13:46
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Dusen |
Posted on 29-08-2014 14:05
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Well. I guess thats an unfortunate side-effect when starring down on your watt-meter 80% of the time 
All jokes a side. I hope he is ok, i don't like him as a rider, but he plays a vital role in any race he participate in like the famous danish cycling lover Jørgen Leth wrote " Froome is the perfect villain, that we all need"
But my hopes ain't high, his crashes in the Dauphine and TDF all proved that he ended up suffering for them. So the statistic ain't on his side.
Edited by Dusen on 29-08-2014 14:06
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| Shonak |
Posted on 29-08-2014 14:15
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Tour de France Champion
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Hesjedal in BOTD by the way, probably not the best day for a possible win for him but alas, gotta try it. Maybe his intention is more to get back time. Degenkolb was involved in crash apparently too and was at medical car.
Edited by Shonak on 29-08-2014 14:22
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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