Avin Wargunnson wrote:
I am with Guido on this one, why should even anybody care that there is some cycling race taking place? Delaying trains? I would sue the organisers for lost revenue if that happened and i was businessman waiting for that train. There are clear rules for rider and it is their choice if they want to trespass them (now they will trespass it for sure, cos nobody was DQed as they should). I dont think it will happen many times in the future, it was just bad timing and usually trains are not much of an issue...
Oh please, stop it
Stop what? You think everybody cares about some cycling race? It is on race organisers to set the route to likely avoid these problems, which happened as SN informs, but wind caused faster riding. But delaying the train next times for 30minutes because some riders cant follow the rules should not be an option, people in the train have their own things to catch up, so why rearange their regimes because of cycling race?
To be fair, PR is more than just 'some cycling race'. Its a national institution, a key sporting and cultural event like the FA Cup final, Grand National or Wimbledon in the UK. Its not unreasonable to organise a slight reschedule of public transport for one hour, one day a year to ensure that the event can be run professionally, safely and without external interference.
Members of the public have to 'endure' inconvenience for virtually every major sporting event especially if you live near a stadium or even if you are trying to get around in a city where a big event is taking place. Buses are cancelled, road are closed to traffic and thousands of people gather in small spaces all creating havoc for businesses and residents. Why should people on trains be exempt from minor inconvenience? If public convenience overrides the sporting event, then farmers should be allowed use tractors on the cobbled tracks on PR Sunday, cyclists should have to contend with buses pulling out of bus lanes as gthey go about their normal schedule and local residents should be allowed use their cars on race routes. Clearly none of these examples make sense. All thats needed with trains is proper on-the-day communication and a slight delay at the previous station or a few km down the track. It happens all the time for other reasons - animals on the track for example.
I have no idea why these types of scenarios arent covered off in proper rules and regulations about neutralisation though. If all cyclists were 100% aware that the race would be neutralised, then very few if any would have gone through. The main factor yesterday was a fear that they were going to be left behind and their race was over. If that fear was removed by proper regulation, then problem solved.
Just another example, like the Basque sprinting incident earlier in the week, of the amatuerism that still exists in pro-cycling management. I cant see the Olympic marathon being interrputed by a passing train, can you?
The riders were stupid to jump it once the barrier was down and the train was coming but they should never have been put in that position in the first place.
Professional Cycling is supposed to be a closed road event, if the organisers are unable to get an agreement with the train company to hold the train at the previous station, which despite the fact they were running early it should still have been possible to tell how early they were running before that train left the previous station, then the crossing should not be included in the route.
Honestly just looking at it I don't really see THAT MUCH of a problem. Sure, it's disregarding safety rules and all that, but it's bad organisation in the first place by all those involved. Maybe don't have the race going straight through a train track? Also, you can see that even GvA went passed a good few seconds before the train came. Even though the barriers were there, tell me the riders who went past weren't safe. Bottom line, if it was me I would've definitely gone through.
Cycleman123 wrote:
Honestly just looking at it I don't really see THAT MUCH of a problem. Sure, it's disregarding safety rules and all that, but it's bad organisation in the first place by all those involved. Maybe don't have the race going straight through a train track? Also, you can see that even GvA went passed a good few seconds before the train came. Even though the barriers were there, tell me the riders who went past weren't safe. Bottom line, if it was me I would've definitely gone through.
Seriously? Do you know how many train tracks there are in France?
And a good few seconds? What if he fell/got stuck/...? You keep going through, if we no longer see you on the forum in a few months, we'll know what happened.
Cycleman123 wrote:
Honestly just looking at it I don't really see THAT MUCH of a problem. Sure, it's disregarding safety rules and all that, but it's bad organisation in the first place by all those involved. Maybe don't have the race going straight through a train track? Also, you can see that even GvA went passed a good few seconds before the train came. Even though the barriers were there, tell me the riders who went past weren't safe. Bottom line, if it was me I would've definitely gone through.
To easy, They weren't safe! Think about it a little more than just from the perspective of the riders please, they have cleats on which are easy enough to lose traction on something metal like a railway track, if that happened then what? Train ploughs into rider. It is pretty simple, they acted in an unsafe, unprofessional and selfish way. If you want to run the gates buddy then I hope you get caught and fined heavily
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Well a Marathon is a 40 k event where a cycling race is 150-250 k's of roads, how are they supposed to avoid the railway tracks in a race like Roubaix? Do we switch it the the multi lane main roads or maybe and its a big maybe, the riders could follow the rules
Edited by Strydz on 13-04-2015 23:04
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Don't you think they would avoid the level crossing if that was attainable without interfering greatly with the traditional route? Sure the organizers could have coordinated their efforts with the train company, but can we exonerate the riders from that reckless attitude?
Imo the organization failed in both situations. Failure to prevent that from happening and failure in enforcing the rules.
Cycleman123 wrote:Bottom line, if it was me I would've definitely gone through.
I respect all divergent opinions, but this is pure irrationality. What a childish thing to say.
Strydz wrote:
Well a Marathon is a 40 k event where a cycling race is 150-250 k's of roads, how are they supposed to avoid the railway tracks in a race like Roubaix? Do we switch it the the multi lane main roads or maybe and its a big maybe, the riders could follow the rules
I dont think races need to avoid railway tracks at all. Dont think anyone wants to see races using motorways! My point was that there's no way organisers of the Olympic marathon (or insert other major event) would stand for an external influence such as a train jeopardising their event and their brand and their reputation.
Adrenaline-filled riders, fearing their DS's wrath and maybe even their future contract negotiations cannot be relied upon to make a safety-first decision in the couple of seconsd the have to decide whether to stay or go. Take the decision out of their hands.
Of course, what nobody has mentioned is... when it became clear tha the tarin was going to arrive at the same time as the peleton, why were the gates not brought down sooner so that the entire peleton was blocked before they got anywhere near it. Was anyone even in charge of the situation?
Ok maybe I didn't think of all the possibilities, but they did go through, and that shows that I'm not alone in my opinion.
EDIT: That's a good point you make Murfi. There had to be some way to avoid separating the group. Good thing the race was neutralised, but the problem is that, as GvA said, the riders wouldn't know that for sure, which is why they took the risk.
Also, the stop allows the riders at the back to catch up, just raising a point which hadn't been seen yet, do with it what you will.
Edited by Cycleman123 on 14-04-2015 02:51
This thread has just been flooded with ludicrous opinions by people who I thought were a little smarter than that.
First of all this is the single biggest race of the year for many riders, if you did not know for 100% that the race would be neutralized because of the train, every single one of you would have done the exact same thing in that situation and went across the tracks. To say otherwise is just simply not being honest with yourself.
As mentioned by Murfi, the fault rests solely on the organizers of the race for not clearly defining what would happen in that situation. To add that they had to know the train could be an issue or they didnt not do their job.
I honestly cant believe some of things I am reading here.
Edited by Movistar on 14-04-2015 02:43
Movistar wrote:
This thread has just been flooded with ludicrous opinions by people who I thought were a little smarter than that.
First of all this is the single biggest race of the year for many riders, if you did not know for 100% that the race would be neutralized because of the train, every single one of you would have done the exact same thing in that situation and went across the tracks. To say otherwise is just simply not being honest with yourself.
In my opinion, assuming there is a law against it in France, the riders who crossed the tracks should be given a fine for breaking the law, while the result should remain unhanged. I think it's fair enough in the sense of the race that some people crossed the tracks, as cycleman and Movistar said, but a fine of some sort should apply, even if it's just a message to say it shouldn't be done.
I totally would not have crossed. Not because I wouldn't want to break the rules, but because I'd be scared shitless of being hit by a train and losing my life for something insignificant and stupid.
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baseballlover312 wrote:
I totally would not have crossed. Not because I wouldn't want to break the rules, but because I'd be scared shitless of being hit by a train and losing my life for something insignificant and stupid.
But the thing is that for the riders it isn't insignificant and stupid, but instead for some it's what they've been working for for god knows how long, and it's the biggest day of their year for sure.
baseballlover312 wrote:
I totally would not have crossed. Not because I wouldn't want to break the rules, but because I'd be scared shitless of being hit by a train and losing my life for something insignificant and stupid.
But the thing is that for the riders it isn't insignificant and stupid, but instead for some it's what they've been working for for god knows how long, and it's the biggest day of their year for sure.
Oh gosh, how much this ressembles doping talk, where some people claim riders to be under pressure and everybody else is cheating, so lets cheat too, to catch up with them on the road. And in both cases, riders risk their lives, which is much more significant (at least in my eyes) than career or any cycling race.
Murfi gave me a good point and i agree that organisers are also the ones to blame here, there should be much more communication with french railroads about that coming train. But these riders (at least those three that went after it was all down) are plain stupid and clearly trespassed the law and should be punished.
Now you can actually see whixch example they give, as Cycleman would happily cross it too, because big boys do it. I know you could almost be my son age wise Cycleman, you should be spanked by your parents.
It is a shame, but we live in cheating driven society. Politicians cheat, husbands and wifes cheat, sportsmen cheat and there are hardly any consequences in majority of cases. Great atmosphere to live in, isnt it?
Movistar wrote:
This thread has just been flooded with ludicrous opinions by people who I thought were a little smarter than that.
First of all this is the single biggest race of the year for many riders, if you did not know for 100% that the race would be neutralized because of the train, every single one of you would have done the exact same thing in that situation and went across the tracks. To say otherwise is just simply not being honest with yourself.
As mentioned by Murfi, the fault rests solely on the organizers of the race for not clearly defining what would happen in that situation. To add that they had to know the train could be an issue or they didnt not do their job.
I honestly cant believe some of things I am reading here.
First of all it's irrelevant if we would of done the the same thing as the riders, that's not the issue here. There is a rule in place for this exact thing and that is to stop at the gates when a train is coming, be it Paris-Roubaix or an amateur race, the riders broke that rule so should be punished, there is no grey area there for the group who decided to go through once the gates were down. The win at all costs mentality and lax enforcing of the rules of the sport is a big problem in the sport, this is why we have had such an issue with P.E.D's. Why is it okay for them to do this? Do you not care about what would of happened had GVA slipped on the track? The Train driver who would of had a bloodied body of the rider on the front of his train, the spectatctors standing there watching a human being crushed, the family of the rider who would have to live with there son, husband, father being dead because of his selfishness and greed. This was a serious incident and as per usual people are dismissing it because it was Paris-Roubaix and it's a massive race so it's okay. They broke the rules of the sport but the also broke the law!
I honestly can't believe you would defend it
Edited by Strydz on 14-04-2015 07:09
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Who threw there bottle through a open window? Kind of amazing, but also it could've been a problem or a bit weird for somebody living there (What if they got hit, I guess they would be out watching the race though).
trekbmc wrote:
Who threw there bottle through a open window? Kind of amazing, but also it could've been a problem or a bit weird for somebody living there (What if they got hit, I guess they would be out watching the race though).
Exactly. If they got hit they deserved it for not being down by the road watching
Anyway actually a pretty good idea as it avoids the potential problems of a the bottle barricading off the houses and back among the riders. Brilliant throw as well.
trekbmc wrote:
Who threw there bottle through a open window? Kind of amazing, but also it could've been a problem or a bit weird for somebody living there (What if they got hit, I guess they would be out watching the race though).
Exactly. If they got hit they deserved it for not being down by the road watching
Anyway actually a pretty good idea as it avoids the potential problems of a the bottle barricading off the houses and back among the riders. Brilliant throw as well.
Forgot about that, although he was at the back of the bunch, so it wouldn't have been much of a hazard and as you said, the throw was amazing.
