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La Vuelta 2013 - Week One (24th-30th August)
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| Lachi |
Posted on 26-08-2013 22:14
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
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All this doping talk again. Can't you do something more useful?
Just do it like me, dope yourself and enjoy the race... |
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| coutas98 |
Posted on 26-08-2013 22:15
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 253
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Lachi wrote:
All this doping talk again. Can't you do something more useful?
Just do it like me, dope yourself and enjoy the race...
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 26-08-2013 22:47
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Lachi wrote:
All this doping talk again. Can't you do something more useful?
Just do it like me, dope yourself and enjoy the race...
At best, or worse, I could understand that you wouldn't mind doping in collective sports.
But in cycling, like in some other sports (swimming, athletics, etc.), the performance comes from the human being, his body, his mind.
All that stuff, the very core of cycling and the suffering that goes with efforts to win or achieve something is directly affected by dope.
So, in case of obvious dopers winning races or achieving results, what we get to watch is just totally fake.
Either people want to see a show, either they want to watch something genuine. And genuine doesn't mean less show whatsoever.
So no, personally, and thankfully like many, I can't just sit and enjoy a race of doped characters. Still I enjoy watching races. Just not with doped riders. |
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 26-08-2013 23:24
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 845
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If you don't enjoy races with doped riders, than it becomes very hard to find a race to enjoy imo. Dope or no dope, I'll enjoy it anyway. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 27-08-2013 00:46
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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jph27 wrote:
The Rider wrote:
Nin1388 wrote:
Hi guys, sorry. But I don't know why people are outraged with Horner winning ? Sorry I could not watch today's stage.
Because a lot of people like vilifying people, who they have never met/ are successful and only go on second hand opinions, as a subconscious means of covering the failures they possess as a human.
Also some people on this site are under 18/no know better and naively think its OK to call Horner a 'bad person' e.g. having never met the guy even though he acts cordially on and off the bike, yet don't realise that by judging someone they are in actual fact the 'bad/worse person' for doing so.
These people aren't even cycling fans/like cycling they seem to have some obsessive fascination with doping. So they should be on medical blog sites rather than PCM daily, as they only create a negative atmosphere. 
It is great to see three different red jersey wearers already, anyone predict that, will that change tomorrow? 
To paraphrase Lance: I'm sorry you believe in miracles.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| wogsrus |
Posted on 27-08-2013 00:54
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Protected Rider
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Hahaha. Should be an interesting stage. OGE have many options, depending on how fast the race is run. |
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| jacobjc88 |
Posted on 27-08-2013 01:05
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Domestique
Posts: 424
Joined: 13-03-2010
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I don't enjoy watching doped riders either, when I saw Santambroggio being a superhuman out of no where, who wasn't suspicious?
I think "the dopers" ruin the sport, but they do in all sports. People always blame cycling:" They are all doped" people are doped in ALL sports, cycling is just doing something about it. Ryan Lochte (one of the best swimmers) was tested just 5-6 times a whole season! That's how easy it is to dope in different sport. I believe in the system, even though cheaters will always be 1 step in front.
Horner has been riding on a very high level for very long. He has had some injuries which is the reason why he hasn't had better results. Horner is not a guy coming out of no where. Yes he might have been doped once, but really who cares, if he doesn't do it anymore.
People always talk about what has been done, Armstrong and so on. I don't give a shit, yes Armstrong cheated, but who the hell didn't? He
deserved wins at the TdF, and who the hell should we else give it too?
Just get over the past, and look to the future. It doesn't mean we should forget it though.
Anyway back to the Vuelta! Interesting stage today. And a well deserved win for Horner, great ride! And Roche yesterday too! As a Saxo boy I loved to see them having some success, and who else than Roche? So many top 10's, now finally a win! Way to go! |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 27-08-2013 01:33
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8290
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The Rider wrote:
These people aren't even cycling fans/like cycling they seem to have some obsessive fascination with doping. So they should be on medical blog sites rather than PCM daily, as they only create a negative atmosphere.
I'm so sick of people like you claiming that I don't love this sport. I eat, sleep and breathe cycling. I follow it obsessively on a daily basis, reading multiple news websites, checking results and reading blogs where it is all analysed. I love this sport.
It is precisely because I love the sport that I talk about doping a lot. I want to see a contest where the best person in the best shape who put the most effort in and who timed their attack/sprint the best wins it. That is what I watch cycling for. Yet, as soon as doping is added this is an impossibility due to an imbalanced playing field. So I talk about doping to try to determine who was the best on the day and the furthest from my own suspicions.
So please for the love of the sport stop vilifying me for wanting to see a sport which can enjoy even more for being clear of the the taint of doping. It is precisely people like yourself who are wilfully blind who ensure that people can continue to get away with whatever they like within the sport - an apathetic audience ensures that the institutions in charge of testing and creating credibility in the first place can continue in their ineffectiveness.
So claim what you like, but never that I don't love this sport.
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| Strydz |
Posted on 27-08-2013 02:05
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Team Leader
Posts: 5894
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CountArach wrote:
The Rider wrote:
These people aren't even cycling fans/like cycling they seem to have some obsessive fascination with doping. So they should be on medical blog sites rather than PCM daily, as they only create a negative atmosphere.
I'm so sick of people like you claiming that I don't love this sport. I eat, sleep and breathe cycling. I follow it obsessively on a daily basis, reading multiple news websites, checking results and reading blogs where it is all analysed. I love this sport.
It is precisely because I love the sport that I talk about doping a lot. I want to see a contest where the best person in the best shape who put the most effort in and who timed their attack/sprint the best wins it. That is what I watch cycling for. Yet, as soon as doping is added this is an impossibility due to an imbalanced playing field. So I talk about doping to try to determine who was the best on the day and the furthest from my own suspicions.
So please for the love of the sport stop vilifying me for wanting to see a sport which can enjoy even more for being clear of the the taint of doping. It is precisely people like yourself who are wilfully blind who ensure that people can continue to get away with whatever they like within the sport - an apathetic audience ensures that the institutions in charge of testing and creating credibility in the first place can continue in their ineffectiveness.
So claim what you like, but never that I don't love this sport.
I could not have said it better myself Count
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 27-08-2013 09:49
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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If there's one person here who loves cycling, it's CountArach. He seems to know everything about young talent riders and knows more about Belgians than I do  |
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| wogsrus |
Posted on 27-08-2013 10:32
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Protected Rider
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Gerrans fell heavily yesterday, Said he will need a couple of days to get over the soreness. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 08:21
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 27-08-2013 10:44
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I for one am glad that this forum has a culture where you can discuss suspicious riders and doping in a constructive and respectful way, in any thread.
Other places I've seen would put you down for killing the love for the sport that exists on a forum (f.e. Wielerflits) or only allow you to post about it in a seperate area (Cyclingnews).
It's pure ignorance based on fear. The fear of doping hangs like Damocles's sword over these kinds of forums. I think it's because people seem to live with the idea that you can't enjoy watching cycling if you know someone who might be doping is involved.
Therefore some create a dream world-scenario where people can't talk about doping to protect their own joy of watching the sport. You see it here too but the other way around: users saying that they threw up etc because a doper is involved.
Some riders dope. We need to accept this, enjoy cycling, and still have an open discussion about doping at the same time. The three can go hand-in-hand. |
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 27-08-2013 11:08
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
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I don't get the problem about Horner. If he did something wrong in the past, he was just being a professional cyclist trying to survive, like 90% of his colleagues back then. Irrelevant.
What he did yesterday was mainly very smart, attacking at the right moment. Nibali wanted to get rid of his jersey, Valverde and Rodriguez were afraid of each other and the experienced old fox runs off with the stage victory with a well-timed, strong effort. I'd only get suspicious if Horner will still be in the lead on the first rest day. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 27-08-2013 11:16
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
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Blueprint wrote:
I don't get the problem about Horner. If he did something wrong in the past, he was just being a professional cyclist trying to survive, like 90% of his colleagues back then. Irrelevant.
What he did yesterday was mainly very smart, attacking at the right moment. Nibali wanted to get rid of his jersey, Valverde and Rodriguez were afraid of each other and the experienced old fox runs off with the stage victory with a well-timed, strong effort. I'd only get suspicious if Horner will still be in the lead on the first rest day.
You don't get the point. He was "rider n°15" in USADA reports but didn't get sanctioned, for some odd reason. That's one point that you get.
What's worst is that he should have been nailed for his blood passport. It's like the profile of a mountain stage, showing frequent and repeated blood manipulations. That's a bigger problem than having taken dope 10 years ago. |
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 27-08-2013 11:25
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Wow, where can we see the public version of Chris Horner's blood passport? Now I'm curious. |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 27-08-2013 14:45
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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My problems with doping "discussions" are rather simple.
1. The persons talking about it have no clue and the ones knowing the truth don't talk.
2. It is hypocritical. The talk only starts after a good result.
3. It is not really a discussion but rather trolling.
4. The same (old) information will be posted over and over again.
5. It is off-topic (until you can prove that Horner did dope to achieve this stage win) |
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 27-08-2013 15:11
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World Champion
Posts: 10497
Joined: 23-06-2011
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CountArach wrote:
The Rider wrote:
These people aren't even cycling fans/like cycling they seem to have some obsessive fascination with doping. So they should be on medical blog sites rather than PCM daily, as they only create a negative atmosphere.
I'm so sick of people like you claiming that I don't love this sport. I eat, sleep and breathe cycling. I follow it obsessively on a daily basis, reading multiple news websites, checking results and reading blogs where it is all analysed. I love this sport.
It is precisely because I love the sport that I talk about doping a lot. I want to see a contest where the best person in the best shape who put the most effort in and who timed their attack/sprint the best wins it. That is what I watch cycling for. Yet, as soon as doping is added this is an impossibility due to an imbalanced playing field. So I talk about doping to try to determine who was the best on the day and the furthest from my own suspicions.
So please for the love of the sport stop vilifying me for wanting to see a sport which can enjoy even more for being clear of the the taint of doping. It is precisely people like yourself who are wilfully blind who ensure that people can continue to get away with whatever they like within the sport - an apathetic audience ensures that the institutions in charge of testing and creating credibility in the first place can continue in their ineffectiveness.
So claim what you like, but never that I don't love this sport.
If there was an award for Post of Year, this would be it. Great post here Count, well said. |
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 27-08-2013 15:47
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World Champion
Posts: 11971
Joined: 21-07-2012
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28%! X.X
what kind of murder is that
Edited by SSJ2Luigi on 27-08-2013 15:47
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| Movistar |
Posted on 27-08-2013 15:49
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Domestique
Posts: 424
Joined: 05-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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If someone could post video of this climb after the race that would be awesome. At work and not able to watch but it sound brutal. |
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 27-08-2013 15:51
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
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Meh nothing happened on the climb, will be down to a reduced sprint of sorts methinks, Meersman for the win
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