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News in June
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 24-06-2013 22:07
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FreitasPCM wrote:
Wilier wrote:
Reda suspended by his team Androni for missing doping controls.
And speaking of Reda, does that actually connect to him missing three months of competition from early March to late May/early June...?
Yeah, Androni already said in March he wouldn't be racing
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| Cossack |
Posted on 24-06-2013 22:07
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Aquarius wrote:
Now what I'm wondering, is WTF L'Équipe is playing. They belong to ASO who also owns Tour de France. Strangely enough, just five days away from the Tour de France, they try to come up with another doping scandal, so that during the race, we'll hear more about Jalabert (and Ullrich, but blame Focus for him) than about actual racing. And once again cycling will get depicted as the sport of doped persons. 
Maybe they want to prepare their own story: "look how dirty cycling was a few years ago, but now we have done everything to eradicate it!". Or just lack of supervision of ASO, while a wannabe-famous journalist comes with an idea that this is the best moment to catch people's attention in this way.
Edited by Cossack on 24-06-2013 22:08
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-06-2013 07:44
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Tour de France Champion
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Riccò says the UCI had a list of 48 riders positive for variants of EPO at the 2008 Tour de France
Indeed, looking back it was quite strange back then how several different media sources released what the number of positives per team would be and everyone had the same list, but over the following months as Schumacher, Kohl, etc. were caught, either everyone from a named team was announced positive or nobody was.
If I recall correctly the leaks all included Kirchen, F.Schleck, Cancellara.
Thinking back that was the year Cancellara single-handedly pulled the pack over the Croix-de-Fer killing everyone. I think Vayer at the time calculated he'd done numbers that nowadays would win the Tour.
Edited by issoisso on 25-06-2013 07:50
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 25-06-2013 07:55
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Even if Ricco says it (probably true this case), UCI won't give a shit, just like the spanish judge of the, men can't recall his name, the spanish doctor, decided to destroy every evidence in the investigation. |
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| jph27 |
Posted on 25-06-2013 08:46
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The report which confirmed Jalabert's EPO positive is out on July 18 and is allegedly going to name some others. Should be interesting.
On the subject of the 48, I'm curious. Will look at the startlist and see who it could be, but then Ricco may be lying. |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 25-06-2013 09:34
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Looking at Watts being pulled uphill, is it likely that cycling is more and more doping-free every year (bit by bit), or is it still as it used to be? Asking this because issoisso said those power numbers would win the Tour nowadays.
Edited by Ian Butler on 25-06-2013 09:35
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| Cossack |
Posted on 25-06-2013 09:52
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Generally watts are lower than before, I have found an extract from Polish blog about cycling (article from 2011 Vuelta):
Nie ma na razie oficjalnych danych dotyczących czasu podjazdu Juana Jose Cobo na Angliru. Te nieoficjalne wskazują, że morderczy podjazd pokonał zaledwie 32 sekundy wolniej od Alberto Contadora w sezonie 2008, zatem uzyskał średnią prędkość podjeżdżania (VAM) około 1875. Można więc szacować, że daje to 6.25 Watt na kilogram masy ciała. Jest to nieco powyżej granicy 6.2 W/kg, która według specjalistów wyznacza granice ludzkich możliwości bez niedozwolonego wsparcia farmakologicznego. Dla porównania Ivan Basso na podobnie wymagającym podjeździe, czyli Monte Zoncolan podczas Giro d’Italia 2010 uzyskał VAM 1777 i stosunek W/kg 5.68. Contador wygrywając na Angliru pojechał niemal w sposób nadnaturalny (VAM 1930 i 6.4 W/kg). Minuta i dwadzieścia sekund różnicy, które Wiggins stracił do Cobo na najtrudniejszym odcinku wzniesienia powoduje, że VAM Brytyjczyka to 1734 i 5.78 W/kg, czyli „normalnie dla wybitnego kolarza w szczytowej formie”. Dodatkowo na niekorzyść Juana Jose Cobo działa fakt, że jest dość ciężkim i masywnie zbudowanym zawodnikiem (1,75m wzrostu i ok. 67-69kg wagi), zatem realnie musiał wygenerować więcej mocy by w tym tempie pokonać tak trudny podjazd.
You can use Google Translate, it does its job fairly well with this text. Here is also an interesting article about watts over the years: https://le-grimpeu...rchives/74
Edited by Cossack on 25-06-2013 09:53
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 25-06-2013 10:28
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Okay. Thanks for that!
Some of those numbers are way above natural level. Though it has to be said that it's logical that the general Watt output is going up, no? Bikes change, nutrition changes, in general the riders can ride in optimum conditions, so they should be able to produce more power.
However, I'm not talking about those ridiculous power outputs that some produce  |
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| Cossack |
Posted on 25-06-2013 10:42
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Yes, generally some small increase over the consecutive years could be justified, but many changes are too rapid. Also somebody posted on this forum a graph of performance of TdF winners from ~1995 and some milestone are really suspicious (like sudden drop in 2000 after introduction of EPO test). |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 25-06-2013 11:38
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Could that list be related to this ?
https://www.pcmdai...ost_140697
Me likez old forum posts.  |
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| jph27 |
Posted on 25-06-2013 11:51
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Does anyone have a link to the leaks about number of positives per team that isso mentioned? |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 16-12-2025 19:27
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 25-06-2013 12:52
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Speaking of doping news:
1. Michael Rasmussen sentenced to pay back 579.000 euro to Rabobank. The team was in its full right to fire Rasmussen in June 2007, court says.
2. Tired of doping news? Well, don't check Cyclingnews etc. tomorrow. More to come... |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 25-06-2013 12:55
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More to come?
Uh-oh...
Well, I guess it's good that all those doping cases get solved/public.
It's a step closer to a clean sport for me.
But then again, the sport probably won't get clean ever, there are always going to be a few guys who really want to win that badly.
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| ppanther |
Posted on 25-06-2013 13:16
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Thomas Rohregger can't start at Tour of Austria due a infect, he has since January. Matthew Busche will replace him as team leader. |
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| jph27 |
Posted on 25-06-2013 14:01
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CrueTrue wrote:
Speaking of doping news:
1. Michael Rasmussen sentenced to pay back 579.000 euro to Rabobank. The team was in its full right to fire Rasmussen in June 2007, court says.
2. Tired of doping news? Well, don't check Cyclingnews etc. tomorrow. More to come...
 Retests or are the rumours about a Nibali positive at the giro true, I wonder. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-06-2013 14:07
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Ian Butler wrote:
Looking at Watts being pulled uphill, is it likely that cycling is more and more doping-free every year (bit by bit), or is it still as it used to be? Asking this because issoisso said those power numbers would win the Tour nowadays.
Let's put the decrease in performances in perspective:
In 2006 Sastre was dropped by his rivals on the Alpe d'Huez and finished 9th.
Two years later he climbed the Alpe half a minute slower. He crushed everyone. 2nd place was over two minutes behind
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Mwuhi |
Posted on 25-06-2013 14:25
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Does that mean Sastre was in 2008 the only one on dope, and is just worse than the riders in 2006?
Or was Sastre never on dope, but was better than the riders in 2008 |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-06-2013 14:29
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Tour de France Champion
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Absolutely no idea. Could genuinely be either.
Sastre is one of the few riders who we've never heard anything about, other than being criticized for team managers for not preparing properly.
Whether they meant preparing or "preparing", I have no idea.
EDIT: But not "the only one on dope". Lots of people were on dope. See the discussion above.
Although it's interesting to note that during that Tour Sastre was decent at best before the EPO positives scared everyone, and dominant afterwards (he could've attacked on the Bonette when everyone was at their limit, but yellow jersey Frank asked him not to)
Edited by issoisso on 25-06-2013 14:31
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 25-06-2013 14:40
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Many say that Sastre vowed against doping when Chava died
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 25-06-2013 14:51
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Chava? Who's that? From that nickname, only remember Chavanel. |
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