kumazan wrote:


Oh ffs, are we still there? Even most of his most deluded fanboys have admitted it by now...

* Bertagnolli started working with Ferrari in 2006, to have his thyroid problems treated.

* In July 2007, he went to St. Moritz to see Ferrari, who provided him with EPO, to be injected intravenously. Bertolini, Chicchi, Gasparotto and Pellizotti were with him in St. Moritz. Bertagnolli also recalls seeing Vinokourov and a group of other cyclists with Ferrari in Livigno, 2006.

* Bertagnolli started taking EPO in 2003, as advised by doctor Manelli, but in a very amateuristic way: Ferrari showed him how to use the product properly, in order not to test positive.

* A lot of Bertagnolli's Liquigas colleagues also went to Ferrari: he names Pellizotti, Chicchi, Gasparotto... and Kreuziger. He recalls seeing Popovych and Bileka at Ferrari's house and also mentions Morris Possoni.

* In 2007 Bertagnolli started with blood transfusions. Ferrari told him which refrigerator to buy to store his blood in the best way (at the right temperature). He stored his blood in plastic bags. He affirms he did not transfuse blood prior to working with Ferrari, and it scared him a lot.

* In 2008 Liquigas forbid its riders to work with Ferrari, so Bertagnolli only performed a single transfusion. In 2009 he did "some", in 2010 the transfusions were three.

* Bertagnolli met Ferrari at the end of 2010. Ferrari told him to "throw away all evidence", because he knew of the ongoing Popovych investigation. Ferrari told him to consider using polypropylene blood bags or "flebi di vetro" (an object in glass used for transfusions).

August 27, 2010: in an intercepted conversation in Ferrari's mobile camper, Ferrari and Bertagnolli talk about a number of riders and doping practices:

* Bertagnolli says "everybody is going a little slower"; Ferrari says it's because the riders don't take EPO anymore

* Bertagnolli says "Pozzovivo hurts us on the climbs"; Ferrari says it's because he weighs about 50 kg; Bertagnolli answers he never ever saw him do things like that, "he's all muscles"

* Ferrari says some riders are using AICAR, but the product can be detected and it has to be imported

* Bertagnolli says the product comes from Slovenia; he names Grega Bole and Spilak as possible users, and also Chiarini

* Ferrari thinks it's madness to use AICAR because the molecule is easily detectable

(some less important parts and an interruption in the registration)

* Bertagnolli thinks "for Scarponi it's important to see how the Petacchi case will pan out"

* Ferrari responds Petacchi is in trouble although Bernucci took all of the blame

* Bertagnolli thinks it's incredible some riders still go to Manelli (the first doping doctor Bertagnolli himself consulted): Astarloa, Bernucci, Celestino and Honchar were some of his clients, and they all tested positive

* Ferrari asserts the Mapei Lab is a joke and the tests there don't prove anything

* Retacrit is another detectable EPO molecule; Maccanti and Biondo have been found positive for NESP after using Retacrit and thus, Ferrari thinks it's a molecule for "suicidal fools"; he wonders why the testers don't always detect it

Another conversation, September 28, 2010 (due to technical problems the Italian police only recorded the first 30 minutes of the conversation):

* Ferrari shows he's better at interpreting blood data than the UCI

* Ferrari is "obsessively monitoring" the blood data of his clients

Some pages seem to be missing here, or I didn't read the document too well.

December 1, 2010, another conversation:

* Ferrari asks Bertagnolli which blood bags he used, Contador might have used bags in PVC, Bertagnolli has been using polypropylene bags which are not detectable, so he's not in trouble

* some stuff about blood transfusions, no details

* riders who want to dope can't go to Teide anymore because the place is "bruciata" - monitored and known by the antidoping authorities

* Ferrari speculates someone in the lab might have spiked Contador's blood with clenbuterol

* Bertagnolli asks if Contador might have used Actovegin, but Ferrari says no; "Actovegin is made of calf's blood, normally they don't use clen for that"

CountArach wrote:
Thanks for reposting that. Super interesting. Also explains why Contador failed the plasticiser test.

I forgot to translate some interesting parts on AICAR: "it's a powder", "it's only for experimentational purposes, experiments on humans, that is" and "it's extremely expensive".

Ferrari states "it can be traced easily because it's not body-own, maybe they won't see exactly what it is but they can see the peaks and sooner or later they will detect it, like in the Balco case". The testers use "mass spectometry" with some kind of base line and subsequently they should always be able to detect a peak of a certain molecule, they might not know for sure it's AICAR but they can easily see there's something wrong.

KayZeroX wrote:
hmmmm

Most of you are probably just little kids, so i'll take it easy on you.

Making jokes about somebody that gives his honest opinion in a serious thread is really unrespectfull.

But whatever, anybody that can't act like an adult is not worth my time. So i'm not gonna answer all those stupid posts by you USADA sheep. I'm also not gonna defend myself, cause you guys are not worth defending against.
LOL I think i understand Amrstrong even better now.

I'm just gonna read posts by people that do care about a good confersation, people who come with actual facts. Not the BS the USADA has written.

Big middle finger to all of you that have something bad to say about this opinion.

Testimonies of a dozen people directly connected to Armstrong is not an argument. Duly noted again.

toreaxe wrote:
What i find strange is why did Armstrong give $100,000 to the UCI? Why would a competitor give away money? Generous? I'll think i'll look up Lance's number and give him a ring, i'm a bit short at the moment

KayZeroX wrote:
I'm just gonna read posts by people that do care about a good confersation, people who come with actual facts. Not the BS the USADA has written.

CountArach wrote:

I haven't got time to go through everything else but this is really easy. The EPO test didn't exist. Then it was invented and they retested old samples and what do you know? He was positive.

Ian Butler wrote:
I think he was being sarcastic, though

KayZeroX wrote:
hmmmm

Most of you are probably just little kids, so i'll take it easy on you.

KayZeroX wrote:Making jokes about somebody that gives his honest opinion in a serious thread is really unrespectfull.

KayZeroX wrote:
But whatever, anybody that can't act like an adult is not worth my time. So i'm not gonna answer all those stupid posts by you USADA sheep. I'm also not gonna defend myself, cause you guys are not worth defending against.
LOL I think i understand Amrstrong even better now.

I'm just gonna read posts by people that do care about a good confersation, people who come with actual facts. Not the BS the USADA has written.

Big middle finger to all of you that have something bad to say about this opinion.