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Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:16
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World Champion
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Smal wrote:
I find Quintana extremely hard to believe
Quintana hard to beliave? If it was a flat TT, then yes. But it's a hilly TT. |
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:18
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 845
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1. Martin 35'05"
2. Quintana +17”
3. Intxausti +32”
4. Porte +40”
5. Spilak +48”
6. Peraud +51”
7. Henao +57”
8. Betancur +1’05”
9. Weening +1’06”
10. Contador +1’07”
Edited by fosforgasXIII on 06-04-2013 16:19
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:20
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 845
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I'm really looking forward to Quintana's stats. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:21
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 19134
Joined: 08-02-2007
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Well, Unzué did announce prior to this season that they would start copying Sky's marginal gains. Seems to be working 
Smal wrote:
I find Quintana extremely hard to believe
I'm sorry if I am confusing your nickname, but weren't you the one defending Froome's transformation last year? 
Edited by issoisso on 06-04-2013 16:22
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:21
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4851
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Smal wrote:
I find Quintana extremely hard to believe
Well, there's nothing to believe, it's happened. |
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| dev4ever |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:23
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2276
Joined: 13-03-2011
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Quintana! 
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:24
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3440
Joined: 09-10-2008
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Smal wrote:
I find Quintana extremely hard to believe
If you're basing that assessment purely on his performance today that's a very depressing conclusion to come to. It suggests whoever surprises, improves or wins warrants the immediate pointing of the finger. If that's the case what's the point in watching?
I say well done to Quintana, great ride and great win for him and an excellent conclusion to the race too.
Edited by ianrussell on 06-04-2013 16:30
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| Smal |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:27
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Alakagom wrote:
Smal wrote:
I find Quintana extremely hard to believe
Why?
Not just based on today, but the last year or so. He was climbing with Contador, Rodriguez and Valverde (who are all extremely suspicious to say the least) in la vuelta last year where, if I recall correctly, the wattage up the climbs was way higher than all the other GTs that year. A couple of months prior to that he was easily climbing away from the infamous Sky mountain train in Dauphiné as well. No doubt he's a talented rider, but for him now to produce a TT like that is unbelievable to me. |
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| Smal |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:36
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issoisso wrote:
Smal wrote:
I find Quintana extremely hard to believe
I'm sorry if I am confusing your nickname, but weren't you the one defending Froome's transformation last year?
I may well have defended Froome but I was mostly defending Wiggins. Perhaps naively, I don't know. Wiggins is definitely nowhere near as suspicious as Quintana though.
I do like how nobody believes Froome or Wiggins, but when someone who isn't British looks even more/equally as suspicious they're lauded as a hero and nobody says a thing. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 16-12-2025 22:59
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| Neilstrong |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:38
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Under 23
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Smal wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Smal wrote:
I find Quintana extremely hard to believe
I'm sorry if I am confusing your nickname, but weren't you the one defending Froome's transformation last year?
I may well have defended Froome but I was mostly defending Wiggins. Perhaps naively, I don't know. Wiggins is definitely nowhere near as suspicious as Quintana though.
I do like how nobody believes Froome or Wiggins, but when someone who isn't British looks even more/equally as suspicious they're lauded as a hero and nobody says a thing.
Quintana wasn't part of 1-2 in the biggest race...
Edited by Neilstrong on 06-04-2013 16:38
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:38
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3440
Joined: 09-10-2008
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Smal wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
Smal wrote:
I find Quintana extremely hard to believe
Why?
Not just based on today, but the last year or so. He was climbing with Contador, Rodriguez and Valverde (who are all extremely suspicious to say the least) in la vuelta last year where, if I recall correctly, the wattage up the climbs was way higher than all the other GTs that year. A couple of months prior to that he was easily climbing away from the infamous Sky mountain train in Dauphiné as well. No doubt he's a talented rider, but for him now to produce a TT like that is unbelievable to me.
So you're basing it entirely on performance then...have to agree to disagree on that "method". |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:38
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Team Leader
Posts: 7217
Joined: 22-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Smal wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Smal wrote:
I find Quintana extremely hard to believe
I'm sorry if I am confusing your nickname, but weren't you the one defending Froome's transformation last year?
I may well have defended Froome but I was mostly defending Wiggins. Perhaps naively, I don't know. Wiggins is definitely nowhere near as suspicious as Quintana though.
I do like how nobody believes Froome or Wiggins, but when someone who isn't British looks even more/equally as suspicious they're lauded as a hero and nobody says a thing.
Cause Froome and Wiggins both won l'Avenir, the biggest U23 race. Quintana was just a random teammate in that time.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:41
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 19134
Joined: 08-02-2007
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Smal wrote:
Wiggins is definitely nowhere near as suspicious as Quintana though.
Of course. A guy who had no major wins until he was 31 winning the Tour de France is clearly nowhere near as suspicious as a 22 year old winner of the Avenir winning the Basque country.
Smal wrote:
I do like how nobody believes Froome or Wiggins, but when someone who isn't British looks even more/equally as suspicious they're lauded as a hero and nobody says a thing.
There's a "preview reply" button. You might want to try it, it gives you a chance to read what you wrote before posting. It's another opportunity to have that life-changing realization that you've just become a walking sterotype.
Congratulations, you just used the final Armstrong excuse that I had not yet seen a Sky fan use: "You just hate us because we're [nationality]".
It's also the most braindead argument anyone can use. Bravo!
Edited by issoisso on 06-04-2013 16:42
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Smal |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:48
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Free Agent
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issoisso wrote:
Smal wrote:
Wiggins is definitely nowhere near as suspicious as Quintana though.
Of course. A guy who had no major wins until he was 31 is clearly nowhere near as suspicious as a 22 year old winner of the Avenir.
I'd say winning numerous gold medals and world championships is a much better achievement than winning an under 23's race, like. Much, much better in fact. In fact winning an under 23's race doesn't even compare.
issoisso wrote:Incredibly condescending nonsense
omg lolz Armstrong lol haha. What a lazy argument with absolutely no relevance. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:50
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 19134
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Smal wrote:
I'd say winning numerous gold medals and world championships is a much better achievement than winning an under 23's race, like. Much, much better in fact. In fact winning an under 23's race doesn't even compare.
So now we're comparing a sport with very few participants to a major sport?
Nice. Aheem, Falcão is awesome in Futsal, so he'd kick Messi's ass in football, right? RIGHT?
Smal wrote:
issoisso wrote:Incredibly condescending nonsense
omg lolz Armstrong lol haha. What a lazy argument with absolutely no relevance.
Yep, you nailed exactly how I feel about that "everyone hates us because we're british" idiocy
You just hate me because i'm not british. If I was you'd agree with me....or something equally moronic.
Edited by issoisso on 06-04-2013 16:51
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:50
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4851
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Smal wrote:
Not just based on today, but the last year or so. He was climbing with Contador, Rodriguez and Valverde (who are all extremely suspicious to say the least) in la vuelta last year where, if I recall correctly, the wattage up the climbs was way higher than all the other GTs that year. A couple of months prior to that he was easily climbing away from the infamous Sky mountain train in Dauphiné as well. No doubt he's a talented rider, but for him now to produce a TT like that is unbelievable to me.
I have no idea whether Quintana dopes or not (or I'll keep it for myself because I don't know much about him), but there's a (common) misconception of cycling performance in your message.
Climbing is a matter of W/kg, nor pure power. So, if Quintana can climb, he's probably good in that area.
But what are TT about ? Not sheer power, that's the common misconception. It's about W/m². Good position on the bike + decent power = good performance.
Quintana's position is not the best nor the worst I've ever seen, it'd rank him as slightly above average.
Was today's ITT a random one ? No, it had slippery roads, making the will to take risks a factor. It also had several climbs, which are supposed to be Quintana's forte.
So, what's wrong with his performance today ? I mean besides taking a doublé away from Sky in the general classicifaction... |
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:50
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World Champion
Posts: 10231
Joined: 23-06-2011
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Smal wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Smal wrote:
Wiggins is definitely nowhere near as suspicious as Quintana though.
Of course. A guy who had no major wins until he was 31 is clearly nowhere near as suspicious as a 22 year old winner of the Avenir.
I'd say winning numerous gold medals and world championships is a much better achievement than winning an under 23's race, like. Much, much better in fact. In fact winning an under 23's race doesn't even compare.
Winning on track. Wiggins, till 2009, couldn't even pass a hill. Then, in the Tour, he surprises everyone and finishe's 6th. |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:53
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Team Leader
Posts: 6195
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Smal wrote:
I'd say winning numerous gold medals and world championships is a much better achievement than winning an under 23's race, like. Much, much better in fact. In fact winning an under 23's race doesn't even compare.
Not that much better, because, face it, beyond the UK and Australia, not many countries give a flying fuck about the track. It's like cyclocross, you can find freak talents there (Sagan), but even great riders such as Stybar could happen to be just decent pros in the road. And of course we all know that winning in the track is a clear show of talent to win GTs.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:54
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4851
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Smal wrote:
I'd say winning numerous gold medals and world championships is a much better achievement than winning an under 23's race, like. Much, much better in fact. In fact winning an under 23's race doesn't even compare.
Pursuit : little competition, and efforts that are almost all about VO2 max (max power on 5 minutes).
Tour de l'Avenir : a field with all the best U23 in the world, a selective route and, it is, of course, a stage race with actual mountains.
I wonder which is the most significant for stage racers.
Well, actually I don't. |
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| Smal |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:57
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Free Agent
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issoisso wrote:
Smal wrote:
I'd say winning numerous gold medals and world championships is a much better achievement than winning an under 23's race, like. Much, much better in fact. In fact winning an under 23's race doesn't even compare.
So now we're comparing a sport with very few participants to a major sport?
Nice. Aheem, Falcão is awesome in Futsal, so he'd kick Messi's ass in football, right? RIGHT?
And now you're comparing cycling to football of all sports. Wow. Also belittling track cycling, an extremely competitive sport which Wiggins dominated by a distance . Anything to suit your agenda I suppose. |
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