Only doping in training can be considered clever or stupid, depending how you look at it.
Clever because it is harder to detect, stupid because he could have won more.
But apart from that, I don't see any difference: He doped, it does not matter when, how, how much or if his story is true.
Boogerd not doping during races is proven false by Landis' testimony years ago.
Meanwhile, during the Puerto trial Dr. Fuentes says he can name every person the blood bags belong to if the judge just asks...judge says that's not necessary.
Spanish law - totally not facilitating doping. Nosiree.
I also liked the part where Jaksche refers to how Fuentes clients were dominating the Tour of Switzerland that year: "Ullrich won, Fuentes client. Koldo was second, Fuentes client. I was third, Fuentes client. Vicioso was fourth, Fuentes client. Frank Schleck was sixth...."
Fifth btw was Brajkovic.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
issoisso wrote:
Meanwhile, during the Puerto trial Dr. Fuentes says he can name every person the blood bags belong to if the judge just asks...judge says that's not necessary.
As far as I know, doping was allowed in Spain back then (at least it was not a crime) and this trial is only about putting danger to the life of the "patients".
I guess the judge doesn't want to include the "patients" into the trial because it would take months until all of them testified. Or he is biased and does not want any testimony in favor of Fuentes, because, to be honest, most "patients" would never admit that their life was in danger.
fickman wrote:
Puerto trial its a joke. Spaniards will do everything possible to protect their active riders. Its spain......
Not just the riders. There are way bigger names there than Alberto Contador. Way bigger.
cactus-jack wrote:
I've been sort of out of it for a little while. What's this I'm hearing about Menchov doping? Should I be surprised or was it to be expected?
That Menchov was doping is more or less as surprising as Tony Martin getting dropped at the first serious mountain in the Tour. Some feign surprise, but everyone knew it'd happen.
fickman wrote:
Puerto trial its a joke. Spaniards will do everything possible to protect their active riders. Its spain......
Not just the riders. There are way bigger names there than Alberto Contador. Way bigger.
Those I've read, no idea if they're all, partly or not at all true :
- Real Madrid football players
- Barca football players
- Real Sociedad football players
- Valencia football players
- La Coruña football players
- Most major Spanish track & field athletes from the mid 2000's
- Spanish international basketball players (Gasol brothers)
- Fernando Alonso (wtf was he doing on that list ?)
- Even more cyclists than those involved or linked to Fuentes to this day
- Not sure whether I'm making it up, but I reckon I once read about handball players too
Real Madrid, Barça and Valencia (and Betis btw) have been indeed heavily linked, while Coruña I never heard, but wouldn't surprise me at all. Real Sociedad has been all but exposed (RSOC) but of course the media won't dig on that story.
Track & field I'd say from way before, he started working before Barcelona 92 after all. Basketball I've heard as well, but without solid links (that I know of).
Then Fernando Alonso I think is just a weird rumour, not that I think F1 is clean, but it'd strike me as quite odd if Alonso was working with Fuentes, of all doctors. Just a feeling. Never heard anything about the handball.
Edited by kumazan on 07-03-2013 20:19
fcancellara wrote:
Doping in F1? Nope, but sometimes the cars are illegal, you could see that as cheating
Why not? I'm not an expert but isn't it still extremely exhausting? I think I've read something about 3 litres of sweat every race. And every exhausting sport is vulnerable for doping, I think.
Yep, especially when you see how serious they take their physical preparation nowadays compared to the era until the early 90's.
What I found weird about Alonso is that he was supposedly able to do 3 hours ride with Sastre and the whole Cervelo team.
I've you've ever tried riding a bike with or against a professional, erm, let's just that's out of any average tourist's range.
But I subscribe to kumazan's viewpoint, why of all doctors would he work just with Fuentes ?
Aquarius wrote:
Yep, especially when you see how serious they take their physical preparation nowadays compared to the era until the early 90's.
What I found weird about Alonso is that he was supposedly able to do 3 hours ride with Sastre and the whole Cervelo team. I've you've ever tried riding a bike with or against a professional, erm, let's just that's out of any average tourist's range.
But I subscribe to kumazan's viewpoint, why of all doctors would he work just with Fuentes ?
Oh and about doping in F1, only drugs that would improve concentration would be useful, I believe.
This is a month old, but I only just noticed it and I freaking love it. Michael Creed you glorious bastard
(For those of you who don't know what Creed's talking about, not only does Cancellara have a reputation for for being a very large hypocrite, it's also pretty well known in the peloton [although never proven in court] that the codename 'Clasicomano Luigi' in Fuentes' files refers to Cancellara)
Edited by issoisso on 07-03-2013 22:17
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
(For those of you who don't know what Creed's talking about, not only does Cancellara have a reputation for for being a very large hypocrite, it's also pretty well known in the peloton [although never proven in court] that the codename 'Clasicomano Luigi' in Fuentes' files refers to Cancellara)
What a shock!
