|
PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion
|
| Croatia14 |
Posted on 14-09-2014 12:20
|
Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
|
Tafiolmo wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Well what has Cavendish done this year to warrent higher SP stat than Kristoff, Greipel, Bouhanni, Degenkolb and Sagan ?
Well he's won 11 stages this year and it's silly to try a penalize him because he crashed out of the Tour, do you really think any of the above sprinters would beat a fully fit Cavendish?
Andre Greipel or Alex Kristoff! |
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 04:11
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 14-09-2014 13:11
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Croatia14 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Well what has Cavendish done this year to warrent higher SP stat than Kristoff, Greipel, Bouhanni, Degenkolb and Sagan ?
Well he's won 11 stages this year and it's silly to try a penalize him because he crashed out of the Tour, do you really think any of the above sprinters would beat a fully fit Cavendish?
Andre Greipel or Alex Kristoff!
But Greipel's never been better than Cavendish and over the last couple of years has been the third big sprinter. Kristoff is a classic's sprinter for the big hard one day races and just happened to have a great TDF this year. He's likely to beat Cave in the MSR and Gent-Wevelgem for example (due to his huge stamina) but unlikely in a GT tour sprint stage.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 14-09-2014 13:13
|
| |
|
|
| Arberg27 |
Posted on 15-09-2014 10:20
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Will in also provide Rodriguez and Froome the same in the time trial? In the first time trial, they were almost equally bad and yesterday was Rodriguez better. But that logic must Uran had 75 in the mountains.
Froome was in bad shape in this race, but his talent (maximum oxygen uptake potential) in the mountains is so much bigger than everyone else, that he was only the time trial from first place. Contador proved at time trial that he was in shape form.
Contador came faster into shape after 1 crash than Froome did after 6 crash, does not mean they are equally good climbers. Contador's legs were not broken, it was just a wound and he was on the bike 4 days after he dropped out of the tour as Bjarne Riis says here: https://sporten.tv2.dk/2014-09-14-her-...melighed-0
Edited by Arberg27 on 15-09-2014 10:23
|
| |
|
|
| Ollfardh |
Posted on 15-09-2014 10:25
|
World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
|
Kittel is definitely above the rest this year. Greipel is crap, not sure what to think of Cav. But guys like Kristoff, Degenkolb and Bouhanni are closing the gap to the big 3 imo.
And Stuyven isn't a sprinter, he's a classic rider with some speed (like Tom Boonen in his first years). 74 SPR is the max for him.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
|
| |
|
|
| Arberg27 |
Posted on 15-09-2014 11:09
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ollfardh wrote:
Kittel is definitely above the rest this year. Greipel is crap, not sure what to think of Cav. But guys like Kristoff, Degenkolb and Bouhanni are closing the gap to the big 3 imo.
And Stuyven isn't a sprinter, he's a classic rider with some speed (like Tom Boonen in his first years). 74 SPR is the max for him.
Agree 
Edited by Arberg27 on 15-09-2014 11:11
|
| |
|
|
| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 15-09-2014 11:29
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ollfardh wrote:
not sure what to think of Cav.
This has been the big problem this year in general and it has affected people's concepts when it comes to the stats.
1) Cav crashed out of the Tour so we never got the huge showdown with Kittel.
2) Froome and Contador crashed out of the Tour so we never got the showdown and even in La Vuelta Contador always goes better than Froome in that anyway.
3) Quintana crashed out of the La Vuelta so we never got to see him against Contador and Froome.
4) Rodriguez crashed out of the Giro and has never been quite the same since.
5) Who knows what Talansky would've done in the Tour after the Dauphine, but he crashed out.
The year has been a disaster when its comes to the really big riders going head to head, which makes stat distribution quite tricky (because we lack true information)
Edited by Tafiolmo on 15-09-2014 11:31
|
| |
|
|
| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 15-09-2014 11:44
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
|
So let's stop talking about what if's...
Cavendish: Posibly the best sprinter of all time. Not quite as powerful as Kittel anymore, but is smarter, faster acceleration, and more resistant (rec, res, sta, hl, cb)
Froome: Strongest climber in 2012 TDF. Strongest race in 2013 TDF. Almost equal to Contador in 2014 Vuelta.
Contador: Proven GT winner many times. Did win Vuelta, and he had to work and earn that win.
Quintana: Dominated the Giro. Only man who could seriously challenge Froome in 2013 TDF
Purito: Old. Was great in the past, but been struggling with injuries
Talansky: Great one-week stage race.
|
| |
|
|
| toon83 |
Posted on 15-09-2014 12:21
|
Under 23
Posts: 87
Joined: 14-09-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Should Nicola Ruffoni and Sonny Colbrelli get stat upgrades? Especially Ruffoni, who ran Kittel and Cavendish close in the Tour of Britain bunch sprints.
And if so, what should they be? |
| |
|
|
| matt17br |
Posted on 15-09-2014 12:27
|
Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
toon83 wrote:
Should Nicola Ruffoni and Sonny Colbrelli get stat upgrades? Especially Ruffoni, who ran Kittel and Cavendish close in the Tour of Britain bunch sprints.
And if so, what should they be?
Ruffoni is currently on 75 in the new Vuelta update. We also updated his HI stat.
We will consider updating Colbrelli, but nothing sure.
|
| |
|
|
| steve smink |
Posted on 15-09-2014 12:45
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 322
Joined: 31-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Toughts on an updgrade for Phil Deignan he showed he can turn on the hurt and climb when it really matters in the vuelta (73 atm) and put in a great tt (68 atm) in Pologne to get top 10 overall
|
| |
|
|
| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 15-09-2014 13:03
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Well the 'What Ifs' are actually the issue that I'm taking up with the stats, in that too many people are questioning rider's abilities, based on his bad luck to have crashed out of a big race.
For example, I've seen people saying that Cav should be about the same as Kristoff and Demare ect in sprints or downgrading Froome brcause he didn't ride the Tour.
Also when is this new post-vuelta stats list coming out approx? |
| |
|
|
| matt17br |
Posted on 15-09-2014 13:08
|
Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Tafiolmo wrote:
Well the 'What Ifs' are actually the issue that I'm taking up with the stats, in that too many people are questioning rider's abilities, based on his bad luck to have crashed out of a big race.
For example, I've seen people saying that Cav should be about the same as Kristoff and Demare ect in sprints or downgrading Froome brcause he didn't ride the Tour.
Also when is this new post-vuelta stats list coming out approx?
Before the end of the week for sure. Can't say the exact day.
|
| |
|
|
| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 15-09-2014 13:12
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
matt17br wrote:
Before the end of the week for sure. Can't say the exact day.
That's cool, I'm hoping that you've been working on the stats, as I've noticed you're one of the best on here when it comes to getting the stats as accurate as possible. |
| |
|
|
| matt17br |
Posted on 15-09-2014 13:22
|
Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Tafiolmo wrote:
matt17br wrote:
Before the end of the week for sure. Can't say the exact day.
That's cool, I'm hoping that you've been working on the stats, as I've noticed you're one of the best on here when it comes to getting the stats as accurate as possible.
Thank you, too kind! 
|
| |
|
|
| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 15-09-2014 13:55
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
matt17br wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
matt17br wrote:
Before the end of the week for sure. Can't say the exact day.
That's cool, I'm hoping that you've been working on the stats, as I've noticed you're one of the best on here when it comes to getting the stats as accurate as possible.
Thank you, too kind!
Well credit where it's due.
Also is Etixx going to be a sponsor instead of Omega? |
| |
|
|
| matt17br |
Posted on 15-09-2014 13:56
|
Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Tafiolmo wrote:
matt17br wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
matt17br wrote:
Before the end of the week for sure. Can't say the exact day.
That's cool, I'm hoping that you've been working on the stats, as I've noticed you're one of the best on here when it comes to getting the stats as accurate as possible.
Thank you, too kind!
Well credit where it's due.
Also is Etixx going to be a sponsor instead of Omega?
This will happen with the EP 2015 for PCM 2014 release 
Spoiler BTW, ask this kind of questions on Questions/Support Thread or Expansion pack: Official announcement thread.
Edited by matt17br on 15-09-2014 13:59
|
| |
|
|
| Silvio Herklotz |
Posted on 15-09-2014 20:47
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1246
Joined: 26-02-2014
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ollfardh wrote:
Kittel is definitely above the rest this year. Greipel is crap, not sure what to think of Cav. But guys like Kristoff, Degenkolb and Bouhanni are closing the gap to the big 3 imo.
And Stuyven isn't a sprinter, he's a classic rider with some speed (like Tom Boonen in his first years). 74 SPR is the max for him.
How dare you!!??  Seriously, you shouldn't call the rider with most wins of all pro cyclists this season crap
Back to topic: In the db, Kittel is already stronger than Cav who is already stronger than Greipel. So its fine. But I would look a bit more on the secondary stats maybe.
Kittel sucks when the road rises, drops always on minor hills. Maybe HIL 63 I would say. You may hate me for that, but when the road is not pan-flat he has no chance. Cav is a bit better here, but I'd say Greipel survives best of them on hills. Maybe Cav with 66 and Greipel 68 HIL? I'm not sure about this, but that's what I would recommend. I mean Greipel did well in the not-so-easy bunch sprint-stage 12, but he was unlucky (as always.. sigh) because Chavanel took him down. For Cav we can't say much sadly.
I would agree on highest STA and RES for Cav, while Greipel is next with a slight gap only and Kittel is pretty much behind them. Did he ever ride long races at all? He should suck there, honestly.
And you guys should really improve Kittels TT I think. If he wants to, he can still get results in TTs up to 20km or so and for that just PR is not enough imo.
|
| |
|
|
| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 15-09-2014 23:13
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
I'd agree with all of the above and still rate Greipel as the third best sprinter, but only just ahead of the others. |
| |
|
|
| Cossack |
Posted on 16-09-2014 08:46
|
Domestique
Posts: 582
Joined: 16-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
@Silvio Herklotz
The only problem is that he is winning lots of shit small races, while disappointing in TdF
|
| |
|
|
| matt17br |
Posted on 16-09-2014 12:41
|
Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Greipel is one of the best sprinters but in the last years he is focusing himself on the smaller races. He often wins bigger races but not enough to give him 82.
|
| |
|
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
