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TdF'13 Stage 21 - Versailles to Paris (July 21)
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| issoisso |
Posted on 21-07-2013 23:42
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Tour de France Champion
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atlanta wrote:
BritPCMFan wrote:
Spoiler
1. 2004: 55:51 Iban Mayo 23.10 km/h
2. 2004: 56:26 Tyler Hamilton 22.86 km/h
3. 1999: 56:50 Jonathan Vaughters 22.70 km/h
4. 2004: 56:54 Oscar Sevilla 22.67 km/h
5. 1999: 57:33 Alexander Vinokourov 22.42 km/h
6. 1994: 57:34 Marco Pantani 22.41 km/h
7. 1999: 57:34 Wladimir Belli 22.41 km/h
8. 2004: 57:39 Juan Miguel Mercado 22.38 km/h
9. 1999: 57:42 Joseba Beloki 22.36 km/h
10. 2004: 57:49 Lance Armstrong 22.31 km/h
11. 1999: 57:52 Lance Armstrong 22.29 km/h
12. 2004: 58:14 Inigo Landaluze 22.15 km/h
13. 1999: 58:15 Kevin Livingston 22.15 km/h
14. 1999: 58:31 David Moncoutie 22.05 km/h
15. 2004: 58:35 José Enrique Gutierrez 22.02 km/h
16. 2009: 58:45 Andy Schleck 21.96 km/h
17. 2009: 58:45 Alberto Contador 21.96 km/h
18. 2009: 58:48 Lance Armstrong 21.94 km/h
19. 2009: 58:50 Fränk Schleck 21.93 km/h
20. 1999: 58:51 Unai Osa 21.92 km/h
21. 2009: 58:53 Roman Kreuziger 21.91 km/h
22. 2002: 59:00 Lance Armstrong 21.86 km/h
23. 2013: 59:00 Chris Froome 21.86 km/h
24. 1994: 59:02 Richard Virenque 21.85 km/h
25. 1994: 59:02 Armand De Las Cuevas 21.85 km/h
26. 1994: 59:02 Luc Leblanc 21.85 km/h
27. 1994: 59:02 Miguel Indurain 21.85 km/h
28. 1994: 59:02 Roberto Conti 21.85 km/h
29. 2009: 59:03 Franco Pellizotti 21.85 km/h
30. 2000: 59:05 Marco Pantani 21.83 km/h
31. 2000: 59:05 Lance Armstrong 21.83 km/h
32. 2009: 59:05 Vincenzo Nibali 21.83 km/h
33. 1994: 59:07 Pascal Lino 21.82 km/h
34. 1999: 59:08 Tyler Hamilton 21.82 km/h
35. 1999: 59:08 Roberto Laiseka 21.82 km/h
36. 2009: 59:10 Bradley Wiggins 21.80 km/h
37. 2004: 59:12 Levi Leipheimer 21.79 km/h
38. 2004: 59:24 Michael Rasmussen 21.72 km/h
39. 2004: 59:27 Stéphane Goubert 21.70 km/h
40. 2013: 59:29 Nairo Quintana 21.69 km/h
41. 2000: 59:30 Joseba Beloki 21.68 km/h
42. 2000: 59:34 Jan Ullrich 21.66 km/h
43. 1999: 59:35 Txema Del Olmo 21.65 km/h
44. 1999: 59:43 Kurt van de Wouwer 21.60 km/h
45. 2009: 59:46 Jurgen Van Den Broeck 21.58 km/h
46. 2004: 59:47 Oscar Pereiro 21.58 km/h
47. 2006: 59:47 Denis Menchov 21.58 km/h
48. 2006: 59:47 Christophe Moreau 21.58 km/h
49. 2009: 59:49 Andreas Klöden 21.57 km/h
50. 2004: 59:50 David Moncoutie 21.56 km/h
Top 50 times for the whole climb. Its 1617 m of climbing over 21,8 km.
EDIT: The 1999 and 2004 times are TTs hence the generally higher figures.
How silly you look now issoisso, he he;)
Have you tried reading for a change? As I explained before he posted, he's not taking times for the climb. He's taking times for the climb + false flat.
If you're considering that false flat as a climb, then Cancellara has the fastest time ever on it. And if that counts as a climb, then the longest climb in the world is the Passo Majola at 94.3kms long, which was the final climb of a stage in the 2009 Giro won by that super-climber Edvald Boasson Hagen.
Of course it's not really the world's longest climb because no one in their right mind would consider those gradients a mountain.
The real Ventoux starts at a place called St.Esteve and is 15.65kms long. Would you like me to also post the best ever times for it?
EDIT: Oh, and for the record, if you disregard the part at the start where everyone went slow (which made Nieve and Quintana attack to ride the climb at a steady pace), and only take the last 6.5kms that are exposed after the domestiques did their work, Froome beat 2000 Pantani/Armstrong by half a minute
kumazan wrote:
issoisso wrote:
kumazan wrote:
issoisso wrote:
It's like the Pico Veleta at the Vuelta...we can dream :P
I'd rather have them going up to the Collado de las Sabinas, then go down to Granada again and finish near the Alhambra to be honest. That would be incredibly awesome.
Here, somebody make this Mountain TT for PCM
https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=cenes+de+la+vega&daddr=37.1223727,-3.4362181+to:pico+de+veleta,+spain&hl=en&ll=37.054295,-3.359971&spn=0.006739,0.016512&sll=37.149166,-3.533049&sspn=0.053841,0.132093&geocode=FYPrNgIdiwzK_ym77rHxgONxDTGXhk7yNN9E6A%3BFURxNgIdRpHL_ykNL5mNdOdxDTHtuS3rwjO9IA%3BFVxwNQIdBanM_ynjB20DFsNxDTEXKMNnft8ocw&mra=ls&t=m&z=17&via=1
And another one up the Pic du Midi, please. Can't bother to map it though. :P
Haha no, it took way too long to get the Veleta TT in the game to take a pic of the profile already :P
Edited by issoisso on 21-07-2013 23:44
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| issoisso |
Posted on 21-07-2013 23:45
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
Above all, I'm still dreaming of a return to Mont du Chat
Me like!
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 21-07-2013 23:47
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
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Spilak23 wrote:
I play around with bikeroute a lot and these are mountain stages that should be exciting and could logically be possible:
Marie B, Aubisque, Full Tourmalet with finish in La Mongie after 4 km of descent.
finish in Loudenvielle after Peyresourde - Bales combo
Mtf on Col de Granon (would need Briancon or Serre Chevalier again to come up with the money)
Plus Finestre in the Tour would be great.
And we haven't had the Cormet de Roseland for a very long time
Edit: and a hilly Basque stage please
Would love to see the Finestre in the Tour - a Cenis-Finestre-Sestriere stage would be pretty cool (and if you're of a sadistic nature add the Iseran on at the beginning)
Also a hilly Basque stage would be great, doubt it would happen though 
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 21-07-2013 23:52
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World Champion
Posts: 10121
Joined: 01-05-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Stromeon wrote:
Also a hilly Basque stage would be great, doubt it would happen though
It really is a shame. Not much to do about it, though. There's no way the Tour caravan could travel around on roads like this:
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 21-07-2013 23:53
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World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
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This discussion obviously deserves its own thread. 
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 21-07-2013 23:54
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7891
Joined: 04-03-2007
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Cavendish: 'I was doing 1500w in the sprint, and usually when I did 1500w I win by a few bike lengths, so I dunno. Maybe I should have gone earlier but I felt good when I went'.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 22-07-2013 01:27
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Stagiare
Posts: 245
Joined: 03-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
atlanta wrote:
BritPCMFan wrote:
Spoiler
1. 2004: 55:51 Iban Mayo 23.10 km/h
2. 2004: 56:26 Tyler Hamilton 22.86 km/h
3. 1999: 56:50 Jonathan Vaughters 22.70 km/h
4. 2004: 56:54 Oscar Sevilla 22.67 km/h
5. 1999: 57:33 Alexander Vinokourov 22.42 km/h
6. 1994: 57:34 Marco Pantani 22.41 km/h
7. 1999: 57:34 Wladimir Belli 22.41 km/h
8. 2004: 57:39 Juan Miguel Mercado 22.38 km/h
9. 1999: 57:42 Joseba Beloki 22.36 km/h
10. 2004: 57:49 Lance Armstrong 22.31 km/h
11. 1999: 57:52 Lance Armstrong 22.29 km/h
12. 2004: 58:14 Inigo Landaluze 22.15 km/h
13. 1999: 58:15 Kevin Livingston 22.15 km/h
14. 1999: 58:31 David Moncoutie 22.05 km/h
15. 2004: 58:35 José Enrique Gutierrez 22.02 km/h
16. 2009: 58:45 Andy Schleck 21.96 km/h
17. 2009: 58:45 Alberto Contador 21.96 km/h
18. 2009: 58:48 Lance Armstrong 21.94 km/h
19. 2009: 58:50 Fränk Schleck 21.93 km/h
20. 1999: 58:51 Unai Osa 21.92 km/h
21. 2009: 58:53 Roman Kreuziger 21.91 km/h
22. 2002: 59:00 Lance Armstrong 21.86 km/h
23. 2013: 59:00 Chris Froome 21.86 km/h
24. 1994: 59:02 Richard Virenque 21.85 km/h
25. 1994: 59:02 Armand De Las Cuevas 21.85 km/h
26. 1994: 59:02 Luc Leblanc 21.85 km/h
27. 1994: 59:02 Miguel Indurain 21.85 km/h
28. 1994: 59:02 Roberto Conti 21.85 km/h
29. 2009: 59:03 Franco Pellizotti 21.85 km/h
30. 2000: 59:05 Marco Pantani 21.83 km/h
31. 2000: 59:05 Lance Armstrong 21.83 km/h
32. 2009: 59:05 Vincenzo Nibali 21.83 km/h
33. 1994: 59:07 Pascal Lino 21.82 km/h
34. 1999: 59:08 Tyler Hamilton 21.82 km/h
35. 1999: 59:08 Roberto Laiseka 21.82 km/h
36. 2009: 59:10 Bradley Wiggins 21.80 km/h
37. 2004: 59:12 Levi Leipheimer 21.79 km/h
38. 2004: 59:24 Michael Rasmussen 21.72 km/h
39. 2004: 59:27 Stéphane Goubert 21.70 km/h
40. 2013: 59:29 Nairo Quintana 21.69 km/h
41. 2000: 59:30 Joseba Beloki 21.68 km/h
42. 2000: 59:34 Jan Ullrich 21.66 km/h
43. 1999: 59:35 Txema Del Olmo 21.65 km/h
44. 1999: 59:43 Kurt van de Wouwer 21.60 km/h
45. 2009: 59:46 Jurgen Van Den Broeck 21.58 km/h
46. 2004: 59:47 Oscar Pereiro 21.58 km/h
47. 2006: 59:47 Denis Menchov 21.58 km/h
48. 2006: 59:47 Christophe Moreau 21.58 km/h
49. 2009: 59:49 Andreas Klöden 21.57 km/h
50. 2004: 59:50 David Moncoutie 21.56 km/h
Top 50 times for the whole climb. Its 1617 m of climbing over 21,8 km.
EDIT: The 1999 and 2004 times are TTs hence the generally higher figures.
How silly you look now issoisso, he he 
Have you tried reading for a change? As I explained before he posted, he's not taking times for the climb. He's taking times for the climb + false flat.
If you're considering that false flat as a climb, then Cancellara has the fastest time ever on it. And if that counts as a climb, then the longest climb in the world is the Passo Majola at 94.3kms long, which was the final climb of a stage in the 2009 Giro won by that super-climber Edvald Boasson Hagen.
Of course it's not really the world's longest climb because no one in their right mind would consider those gradients a mountain.
The real Ventoux starts at a place called St.Esteve and is 15.65kms long. Would you like me to also post the best ever times for it?
EDIT: Oh, and for the record, if you disregard the part at the start where everyone went slow (which made Nieve and Quintana attack to ride the climb at a steady pace), and only take the last 6.5kms that are exposed after the domestiques did their work, Froome beat 2000 Pantani/Armstrong by half a minute
Sorry, but your still wrong. The climb is the climb, its that simple. The whole point of comparing the big mountains is that they are a constant route that is of good length. The longer you can record and compare, the better. Hense it is far better to compare times for both then merely part of it.
Froomes time is only 15 seconds off the 2009 which is not a whole lot worse. Its I don't there are many times above it you would consider clean. Its suspect enough. Quote the figures too to show how strong he was towards the end, but don't quote incorrect figures for the climb when they aren't for the whole climb because its misleading and only makes you less credible. |
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| sosososik |
Posted on 22-07-2013 01:42
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Domestique
Posts: 439
Joined: 21-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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BritPCMFan wrote:
Sorry, but your still wrong. The climb is the climb, its that simple. The whole point of comparing the big mountains is that they are a constant route that is of good length. The longer you can record and compare, the better. Hense it is far better to compare times for both then merely part of it.
Froomes time is only 15 seconds off the 2009 which is not a whole lot worse. Its I don't there are many times above it you would consider clean. Its suspect enough. Quote the figures too to show how strong he was towards the end, but don't quote incorrect figures for the climb when they aren't for the whole climb because its misleading and only makes you less credible.
If you want to put it like that, why don't compare the whole stages. In 2009 the stage was 167 km long while this year it was 242.5, both have been ridden at approximately 35 km/h. |
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| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 22-07-2013 02:00
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Stagiare
Posts: 245
Joined: 03-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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sosososik wrote:
If you want to put it like that, why don't compare the whole stages. In 2009 the stage was 167 km long while this year it was 242.5, both have been ridden at approximately 35 km/h.
Because they were not the same. The profile for the final 21.6 always is and hense is a good reference point to compare. Its also a place where the riders will generally putting out near maximum effort so you can gauge roughly their maximum output over a sustain period.
You can only do that with identical terrain because god knows there enough other uncontrollable outside factors its about the only thing that is the same XD |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 22-07-2013 02:06
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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issoisso wrote:
Pellizotti2 wrote:
Ugh. Interview with Froome's girlfriend.
We finally have a face to go with all those moronic tweets
Thank god I know who to shoot now.
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| CountArach |
Posted on 22-07-2013 02:16
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8290
Joined: 14-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Finally watched it. All I can say is: How did Carlton Kirby not have a heart attack during that sprint?
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 10:30
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 22-07-2013 02:23
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7891
Joined: 04-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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CountArach wrote:
Finally watched it. All I can say is: How did Carlton Kirby not have a heart attack during that sprint?
People say many things about Kirby, I'll not say my opinion here. But nobody can deny that he doesn't lack passion.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| kodman |
Posted on 22-07-2013 02:29
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Under 23
Posts: 69
Joined: 07-10-2012
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cio93 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Pellizotti2 wrote:
Ugh. Interview with Froome's girlfriend.
We finally have a face to go with all those moronic tweets
Thank god I know who to shoot now.
Would you like me to send you a gun to borrow. |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 22-07-2013 02:41
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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atlanta wrote:
issoisso wrote:
atlanta wrote:
Yep the mutant was slower than AS and AC up Ventoux
2009: 48:57
2013: 48:35
Well A.Schleck says he was 12 secs slower, and if he is wrong well we seen how 09 was ridden(trackstands). And you do make me laugh, it is so wrong to have no results before 26, I mean we cant all be Quintana and Contador. And all you can say(not you but in general, this all people say) is Armstrong said he never failed, that's what makes me lol when people say well Armstrong never failed a test so why believe CF? Well its 2013 for a start, have Sky had 1 failed test? If their doping why don't Leinders dob them in after getting sacked? How many big names have failed(F.Schleck, A.C) so no chance of a cover up by UCI. So yes I believe he is clean 1 of us will be proved right, I understand why you don't believe but you must TRY and forget past and just as he said let it "STAND TEST OF TIME".
Oh lord we have another one...
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| cio93 |
Posted on 22-07-2013 03:14
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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What happened to the CN forum by the way?
Not accessible for me since yesterday.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 22-07-2013 03:20
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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BritPCMFan wrote:
sosososik wrote:
If you want to put it like that, why don't compare the whole stages. In 2009 the stage was 167 km long while this year it was 242.5, both have been ridden at approximately 35 km/h.
Because they were not the same. The profile for the final 21.6 always is and hense is a good reference point to compare. Its also a place where the riders will generally putting out near maximum effort so you can gauge roughly their maximum output over a sustain period.
You can only do that with identical terrain because god knows there enough other uncontrollable outside factors its about the only thing that is the same XD
His point is that if you're going to arbitrarily add non-climbing terrain to the climb, why not add more?
I mean since we're adding pointless noise to our data, let's go all the way and make the data completely useless.
Personally I say the Anglirú is now 250kms long and averages 0.2%. Deal with it.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| XxMillad24Xx |
Posted on 22-07-2013 03:47
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Stagiare
Posts: 235
Joined: 21-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Just going to say that for next years tour, I WANT COBBLES 
"Cycling is now the the world's cleanest sport." - Chris Froome
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 22-07-2013 06:54
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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BritPCMFan wrote:
sosososik wrote:
If you want to put it like that, why don't compare the whole stages. In 2009 the stage was 167 km long while this year it was 242.5, both have been ridden at approximately 35 km/h.
Because they were not the same. The profile for the final 21.6 always is and hense is a good reference point to compare. Its also a place where the riders will generally putting out near maximum effort so you can gauge roughly their maximum output over a sustain period.
You can only do that with identical terrain because god knows there enough other uncontrollable outside factors its about the only thing that is the same XD
The more flat you use, the more the riders in the wheels get slipstreamed, and the less you can evaluate riders' strength. Pretty convenient to consider a longer segment to prove there's been nothing miraculous.
Heck, maybe Pantani was clean each time he set one of the three best times on Alpe d'Huez, I'm sure nobody has checked the valley times and their 0,0005 % of gradient prior to what most people with obviously no clue consider the start of the climb. |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 22-07-2013 08:12
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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In a way I'm glad Contador bumped out of the podium. It was so nice to see an entire podium made out of extremely happy people. Conta would've brought the atmosphere down up there |
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 22-07-2013 08:51
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World Champion
Posts: 10121
Joined: 01-05-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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cio93 wrote:
What happened to the CN forum by the way?
Not accessible for me since yesterday.
They're updating the server or something like that, iirc
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