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News in May
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| ppanther |
Posted on 22-05-2013 16:11
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Domestique
Posts: 482
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Lachi wrote:
I have a questions for ppanther, tastasol and others who try to defend a rider:
Why do you care if some guy in a forum (who you don't know) suggest that a rider (who you don't know) is a doper? If you want to ignore the facts, then just do it. There is no need to make up arguments to justify your attitude.
And if you want to ask me why it matters to me: This is the News thread, so keep your discussions out of it.
Maybe i was unclear. I was not defending a rider at all and with Santambrogio, i am 99% sure he is on something. I just tried to point out that sometimes accusations of riders are based on things, like 6 W/kg or something like that, which could make riders suspicious, but it don't prove anything.
It also works the other way around. Climbing times now are slower than in the 90's, but is the peloton clean? No way. The amount of doping changed, so maybe did the number of dopers, but i am not too sure about the second thing. |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 22-05-2013 17:28
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
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That was a rhetorical question in case you did not notice, therefore I did not read your answer.
Anyway, could we now stay on topic pretty please. |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 22-05-2013 17:30
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Team Leader
Posts: 7357
Joined: 22-08-2011
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It also works the other way around. Climbing times now are slower than in the 90's, but is the peloton clean? No way. The amount of doping changed, so maybe did the number of dopers, but i am not too sure about the second thing.
Are they?
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| issoisso |
Posted on 22-05-2013 18:02
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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Speaking of which, anyone read the news on Juventus today?
Retroactive testing of 1996 Champions League winning squad = Every single player positive for EPO
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 22-05-2013 18:05
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
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issoisso wrote:
Speaking of which, anyone read the news on Juventus today?
Retroactive testing of 1996 Champions League winning squad = Every single player positive for EPO
Can you post a source please? want to rub this in some peoples faces
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 22-05-2013 18:07
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Team Leader
Posts: 7357
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https://nos.nl/video/509274-juventus-v...t-epo.html
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 22-05-2013 18:11
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
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And i get to improve my Dutch  Thanks
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| issoisso |
Posted on 22-05-2013 18:20
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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TheManxMissile wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Speaking of which, anyone read the news on Juventus today?
Retroactive testing of 1996 Champions League winning squad = Every single player positive for EPO
Can you post a source please? want to rub this in some peoples faces
Btw, one thing that I don't see mentioned a lot in reports of this: italian TV interviewed two Ajax players from back then. Without saying specifics they said "it's not just Juve". Notice the present tense.
Anyway, here have some more damning facts
https://storify.co...d-doping-i
Edited by issoisso on 22-05-2013 18:33
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 17:52
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Bot Agent
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| Wilier |
Posted on 22-05-2013 19:14
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5405
Joined: 28-04-2008
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issoisso wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Speaking of which, anyone read the news on Juventus today?
Retroactive testing of 1996 Champions League winning squad = Every single player positive for EPO
Can you post a source please? want to rub this in some peoples faces
Btw, one thing that I don't see mentioned a lot in reports of this: italian TV interviewed two Ajax players from back then. Without saying specifics they said "it's not just Juve". Notice the present tense.
Anyway, here have some more damning facts
https://storify.co...d-doping-i
It's not like Ajax players were saints.
Frank de Boer and Edgar Davids tested positive on nandrolone later in their career.
Edit: Barca and Real Madrid are mentioned. Not surprising at all.
Edited by Wilier on 22-05-2013 19:15
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 22-05-2013 19:17
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Team Leader
Posts: 7357
Joined: 22-08-2011
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issoisso wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Speaking of which, anyone read the news on Juventus today?
Retroactive testing of 1996 Champions League winning squad = Every single player positive for EPO
Can you post a source please? want to rub this in some peoples faces
Btw, one thing that I don't see mentioned a lot in reports of this: italian TV interviewed two Ajax players from back then. Without saying specifics they said "it's not just Juve". Notice the present tense.
Anyway, here have some more damning facts
https://storify.co...d-doping-i
Bill Simmons is the best sports-writer in the world to me.
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 22-05-2013 19:30
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
Joined: 19-02-2008
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Anyone got a link in English because this reads to me that it's just Giuseppe d'Onofrio's reckon. |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 22-05-2013 19:33
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Team Leader
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Anyone got a link in English because this reads to me that it's just Giuseppe d'Onofrio's reckon.
That is all what is said
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 22-05-2013 19:36
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
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Spilak23 wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Anyone got a link in English because this reads to me that it's just Giuseppe d'Onofrio's reckon.
That is all what is said
So did they not actually retro-actively test the players? |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 22-05-2013 19:41
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Team Leader
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No, he concluded it from looking at the blood values
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 22-05-2013 19:43
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
Joined: 19-02-2008
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OK, cheers, had me confused from the OP. |
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| ppanther |
Posted on 22-05-2013 20:25
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Domestique
Posts: 482
Joined: 25-12-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Spilak23 wrote:
It also works the other way around. Climbing times now are slower than in the 90's, but is the peloton clean? No way. The amount of doping changed, so maybe did the number of dopers, but i am not too sure about the second thing.
Are they?
Yes, 90's and early 2000's were faster. Climbing times Alpe d'Huez: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpe_d'Huez
And Lachi: Wheter it was a rhetorical question or not, i thought i had to answer. Why should people be allowed to accuse riders, but others aren't allowed to defend? Again, i personally think Santambrogio is on something and i never defended him, but if it is a discussion both sides should be heard.
Juves teamwide dopin is no surprise, more surprising is, that football related doping is coming public.
Edited by ppanther on 22-05-2013 20:29
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 22-05-2013 21:21
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Let's try to impersonate Platini :
"But that can't be true, football is a team sport, there's no doping needed in it ! 
Cameras angles are what gives the impression that some players run faster, but it's just an impression".
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 22-05-2013 21:24
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
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ppanther wrote:
I just tried to point out that sometimes accusations of riders are based on things, like 6 W/kg or something like that, which could make riders suspicious, but it don't prove anything.
It friggin' does (you didn't bother answering me on the previous page, btw.).
If tomorrow I ride my bike and start doing 7 W/kg during two hours, will that prove something or not ?
It'll most likely prove I'm a liar, but if I'd actually do it, that's much beyond my range (or anyone's), so according to me that can only prove doping, but according to you it wouldn't prove anything ?
You've got to explain me those Watts/kg stuff then. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 23-05-2013 07:15
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
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Cant access the article somehow, what is said there in short?
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| roturn |
Posted on 23-05-2013 07:34
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Team Manager
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It says that the Juve players in the CL final 96 were obviously doped on EPO.
The experts say that there is no other explanations of their blood values.
On the diagrams you see obvious jumps on the day of the finale in their hemoglobin value. |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
