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Ronde Van Vlaanderen 2013 (Tour of Flanders)
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 31-03-2013 21:01
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Atlantius wrote:
fcancellara wrote:
People tend to make a mountain out of a molehill.
Sagan was just joking around, the problem here is not that Sagan did it, it's that people overreact.
Would you consider it ok if someone did the same to some random chick on the street?
I hope not...
He could have "made his point" perfectly clear without actually touching. Then he would just have been fooling around (some might say in bad taste), but touching another persons ass without any sort of encouragement from that person is never fine. Then it only gets worse if you're a rolemodel to a lot of youngsters.
Sagan is old enough to know better, and should be man enough to give a proper apology stating that he overstepped a line...
Agreed. If you just grabbed some random chicks ass would it be alright?
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 31-03-2013 21:01
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Atlantius wrote:
fcancellara wrote:
People tend to make a mountain out of a molehill.
Sagan was just joking around, the problem here is not that Sagan did it, it's that people overreact.
Would you consider it ok if someone did the same to some random chick on the street?
I hope not...
He could have "made his point" perfectly clear without actually touching. Then he would just have been fooling around (some might say in bad taste), but touching another persons ass without any sort of encouragement from that person is never fine. Then it only gets worse if you're a rolemodel to a lot of youngsters.
Sagan is old enough to know better, and should be man enough to give a proper apology stating that he overstepped a line...
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 31-03-2013 21:03
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Though I agree it was disrespectful, stupid, etc. I don't think Sagan, like Wiggins claimed for himself last year, is a role model.
He's a human being, possibly a foolish one, paid to be a cyclist. I don't think he's asking or asked to be a model for anyone (thankfully in this case). |
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| Crommy |
Posted on 31-03-2013 21:13
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Aquarius wrote:
Though I agree it was disrespectful, stupid, etc. I don't think Sagan, like Wiggins claimed for himself last year, is a role model.
He's a human being, possibly a foolish one, paid to be a cyclist. I don't think he's asking or asked to be a model for anyone (thankfully in this case).
I disagree. He's one of the (if not the) most exciting (and successful) riders currently in the world of cycling. He's a role model for many whether he wants to be or not.
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 31-03-2013 21:14
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Aquarius: I think you are right, and usually I wouldn't mind defending riders being allowed to be who they are. That is why I have earlier defended Wiggins right to give the finger to English tabloid press after a crash.
But this is on the podium after one of the biggest events on cycling calendar. That makes you a rolemodel for a lot of kids - no matter if you want it or not.
Sagan is obviously very aware of the cameras and the effect cool pictures have on his value - and as such he should also be aware how he decides to use that. At least in my opinion, but I'll let the discussion rest here.
fcancellara: I'll just repeat the question: Would you consider it ok if someone did the same to some random chick on the street?
whether or not they according to some outsider flirted with the guy a week ago doesn't justify this. Hell I know quite a lot of guys (myself included at times) who are not that good as spotting whether a girl is flirting or just being friendly 
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 11:27
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 31-03-2013 21:26
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Lots of factors, race situation, weather etc etc in the mix but interesting stat below:
Ronde van Vlaanderen (BEL). The top of the Paterberg → The finish line | 2013: Cancellara 16:08 | 2012: Boonen, Pozzato 17:56 (+1:48) |
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 31-03-2013 21:35
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I never said it was okay for Sagan to do it!
I only said that people tend to make it bigger than it really is...
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| issoisso |
Posted on 31-03-2013 21:41
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Crommy wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
Though I agree it was disrespectful, stupid, etc. I don't think Sagan, like Wiggins claimed for himself last year, is a role model.
He's a human being, possibly a foolish one, paid to be a cyclist. I don't think he's asking or asked to be a model for anyone (thankfully in this case).
I disagree. He's one of the (if not the) most exciting (and successful) riders currently in the world of cycling. He's a role model for many whether he wants to be or not.
While I find Sagan to generally be a douche and think he should get a slap for what he did today, I completely disagree that he should be forced to be a role model "whether he wants to or not".
He signed a contract stating he would work as a cyclist for a cycling team. He is bound by both that contract and the rules of the sport. None of those say he has to be a role model.
If people want to look up to someone because they ride a bike really fast that's their innocence/stupidity
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 31-03-2013 21:55
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ianrussell wrote:
Lots of factors, race situation, weather etc etc in the mix but interesting stat below:
Ronde van Vlaanderen (BEL). The top of the Paterberg → The finish line | 2013: Cancellara 16:08 | 2012: Boonen, Pozzato 17:56 (+1:48)
I think the chance from Winter to Summer time last night influenced this.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 31-03-2013 22:00
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Spilak23 wrote:
ianrussell wrote:
Lots of factors, race situation, weather etc etc in the mix but interesting stat below:
Ronde van Vlaanderen (BEL). The top of the Paterberg → The finish line | 2013: Cancellara 16:08 | 2012: Boonen, Pozzato 17:56 (+1:48)
I think the chance from Winter to Summer time last night influenced this.
Uhh. I believe it's Minutes : Seconds from reaching the Paterberg to the finish, not the time of arriving
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| Crommy |
Posted on 31-03-2013 22:11
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issoisso wrote:
Crommy wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
Though I agree it was disrespectful, stupid, etc. I don't think Sagan, like Wiggins claimed for himself last year, is a role model.
He's a human being, possibly a foolish one, paid to be a cyclist. I don't think he's asking or asked to be a model for anyone (thankfully in this case).
I disagree. He's one of the (if not the) most exciting (and successful) riders currently in the world of cycling. He's a role model for many whether he wants to be or not.
While I find Sagan to generally be a douche and think he should get a slap for what he did today, I completely disagree that he should be forced to be a role model "whether he wants to or not".
He signed a contract stating he would work as a cyclist for a cycling team. He is bound by both that contract and the rules of the sport. None of those say he has to be a role model.
If people want to look up to someone because they ride a bike really fast that's their innocence/stupidity
You've missed my point. The fact is, people do look to professional sportsmen as role models (although there are plenty of well substantiated studies which downplays how large an effect this is). Yes, it's unfair, yes, he doesn't get a choice. It just is.
I also disagree to an extent on the contract part. Cyclists exist to promote the goals of their sponsors. For the large part, this is promotion of a brand, as a walking advert. Now, that for the large part entails being very, very good at riding a bike, but that also relates to conduct when you're "at work". Of course, that bit has nothing to do with role models 
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 31-03-2013 22:21
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I'm with Sagan on this one. Disrepectful towards woman? How about they put underweight girls to look pretty on the podium in the first place?
If people can't see the difference between a joke and harassment, well..
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Schleck96 |
Posted on 31-03-2013 22:25
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Ollfardh wrote:
I'm with Sagan on this one. Disrepectful towards woman? How about they put underweight girls to look pretty on the podium in the first place?
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 31-03-2013 22:30
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Jesleyh wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
ianrussell wrote:
Lots of factors, race situation, weather etc etc in the mix but interesting stat below:
Ronde van Vlaanderen (BEL). The top of the Paterberg → The finish line | 2013: Cancellara 16:08 | 2012: Boonen, Pozzato 17:56 (+1:48)
I think the chance from Winter to Summer time last night influenced this.
Uhh. I believe it's Minutes : Seconds from reaching the Paterberg to the finish, not the time of arriving
Indeed  A little more info - he was moving as quickly as he seemed to be (into a headwind and after 250km):
Ronde van Vlaanderen (BEL). Last 13.26 km. Fabian Cancellara: 16 min 8 sec = 49.314 Kph
As much as taking pulls with Cancellara isn't ordinarilly the done thing for a reason (he takes a quick breather then beats you over the head with it for the next 'x' km) I doubt it would have made much difference!
Edited by ianrussell on 31-03-2013 22:34
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| felix_29 |
Posted on 31-03-2013 22:34
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As soon as a male does something like Sagan today the whole world is shouting at him, but if a female cyclist did the same with a podium guy i guess few would complain.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 31-03-2013 22:39
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ianrussell wrote:
Jesleyh wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
ianrussell wrote:
Lots of factors, race situation, weather etc etc in the mix but interesting stat below:
Ronde van Vlaanderen (BEL). The top of the Paterberg → The finish line | 2013: Cancellara 16:08 | 2012: Boonen, Pozzato 17:56 (+1:48)
I think the chance from Winter to Summer time last night influenced this.
Uhh. I believe it's Minutes : Seconds from reaching the Paterberg to the finish, not the time of arriving
Indeed A little more info - he was moving as quickly as he seemed to be (into a headwind and after 250km):
Ronde van Vlaanderen (BEL). Last 13.26 km. Fabian Cancellara: 16 min 8 sec = 49.314 Kph
As much as taking pulls with Cancellara isn't ordinarilly the done thing for a reason (he takes a quick breather then beats you over the head with it for the next 'x' km) I doubt it would have made much difference!
Can't be compared. Last year we had a hard race all the way. This year we had a cyclo-turist event, then a 25km race. It's like comparing average speed of a prologue to that of a 60km TT 
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 31-03-2013 22:41
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issoisso wrote:
ianrussell wrote:
Jesleyh wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
ianrussell wrote:
Lots of factors, race situation, weather etc etc in the mix but interesting stat below:
Ronde van Vlaanderen (BEL). The top of the Paterberg → The finish line | 2013: Cancellara 16:08 | 2012: Boonen, Pozzato 17:56 (+1:48)
I think the chance from Winter to Summer time last night influenced this.
Uhh. I believe it's Minutes : Seconds from reaching the Paterberg to the finish, not the time of arriving
Indeed A little more info - he was moving as quickly as he seemed to be (into a headwind and after 250km):
Ronde van Vlaanderen (BEL). Last 13.26 km. Fabian Cancellara: 16 min 8 sec = 49.314 Kph
As much as taking pulls with Cancellara isn't ordinarilly the done thing for a reason (he takes a quick breather then beats you over the head with it for the next 'x' km) I doubt it would have made much difference!
Can't be compared. Last year we had a hard race all the way. This year we had a cyclo-turist event, then a 25km race. It's like comparing average speed of a prologue to that of a 60km TT
As I say many, many factors to consider but some may find it interesting to reflect upon anyway.
Also (again only for what it's worth ):
2012 average speed = 42.159
2013 average speed = 41.965
Edited by ianrussell on 31-03-2013 22:47
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| kumazan |
Posted on 31-03-2013 22:44
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felix_29 wrote:
As soon as a male does something like Sagan today the whole world is shouting at him, but if a female cyclist did the same with a podium guy i guess few would complain.
Yes the world is totally unfair with men. We should envy the position women are. Like totally. 
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 31-03-2013 22:48
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Looking for a rolemodel at the finish of a 200+ km cycling race is a very bad idea. Riders have asked their girlfriends to marry them, have fought, and have pinched butts. It's not a place for riders to be rational and in complete self-control. And that's human. Of course, people still view them as rolemodels, but can we really demand riders to be perfect human beings, while everyone knows that they're not with all the doping? We shouldn't expect riders to live up to everyone's standards. More on this here: https://pcmdaily.c...ost_625712
As far as the whole butt-pinch being right or wrong, I say meh. It's part of human nature. And the moral discussion about it is part of culture. I would personally take less trivial things to worry about.
Back on topic:
The two best riders of today came first and second, well deserved to both of them. Roelandts also well deserved because he showed that as an outsider, sitting around and waiting for the attacks of the favourites to happen is the worst idea of all. All in all a quite boring Rone to watch up until 20km before the finish, where it was only exciting for 5 km. |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 31-03-2013 22:49
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kumazan wrote:
felix_29 wrote:
As soon as a male does something like Sagan today the whole world is shouting at him, but if a female cyclist did the same with a podium guy i guess few would complain.
Yes the world is totally unfair with men. We should envy the position women are. Like totally.
Look matey Men have had it to hard for far to long, they are the truely opressed ones
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
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