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News in March
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 11:33
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:22
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Tour de France Champion
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Italian teams clean? Is is opposite day?
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| Gustavovskiy |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:23
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Team Leader
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issoisso wrote:
Gustavovskiy wrote:
issoisso wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
You still believe there're teams that do their job honestly? Topsport Vlaanderen or AccentJobs maybe, but definitely not on WT-level.
This isn't 2008, you know? There are honest teams at WorldTour level
(And AccentJobs is one of the last teams I'd think of as clean)
Care to elaborate on that? I'd be interested to read whose teams you or Aquarius believe to be playing fair atm.
Argos, Garmin and - up to a point - FDJ
Mmm interesting. Has Pinot anything to do with that partial lack of trust in FDJ?
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:24
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
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Alakagom wrote:
jph27 wrote:
What about the PCT teams? I don't see a single one I fully believe is mainly clean.
Team Novo Nordisk, Topsport Vlaanderen - Baloise & Bardiani Valvole - CSF Inox look alright to me. MTN - Qhubeka or Bretagne - Séché Environnement among those too.
I have no idea about Bretagne Séché nowadays, but 15 years ago (yes, I've been around for some time), they had one of the worst reputation around, doping-wise.
I more or less agree with issoisso's list, although I'm not sure why he's uncertain about FDJeux. |
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:27
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Breakaway Specialist
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issoisso wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Those are teams with probably some clean riders, but no way they're completely clean and honest.
Any actual evidence to back up that statement?
All three those teams are led by ex-dopers. All three have suspicious doctors.
Thibaut Pinot becoming 10th in the Tour out of nowhere isn't suspicious at all.
Arnold Jaennesson has been linked to doping togetter with di Gregorio.
Pierrick Fedrigo is dodgy as well.
Ryder Hesjedal wins the Giro over obvious dopes as Rodriguez, Scarponi, Cunego and Basso. Makes me think of Armstrong, everyone in the top 10 used doping but HE was clean 
Danielson is on top level on the first race after a six-month suspension, and we all know about his past.
And for Argos-Shimano I found this https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ard-l...estigation
Gretsch and Degenkolb are also linked. |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:32
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World Champion
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They were cleared of charges. Only Steigmiller actually received the treatment, and it was legal back then anyway.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:32
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Di Grégorio left FDJeux years ago. Maybe there's a link ?
Not sure why Fédrigo is dodgy ?!
Jeannesson was called as witness for his Auber years.
Pinot has been really strong during TDF these last two years, nothing close to Sky level, but I admit I've raised an eyebrow. |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:35
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Argos definatly clean for me. They actually made me believe De Kort stayed away from doping while his whole team (Except of AC ) did.
Edited by Spilak23 on 23-03-2013 22:53
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:46
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Breakaway Specialist
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It's really simple. No doping=bad results=no worldtour
There probably are some clean procontinental teams, but not on WT-level. I'm not saying every rider in the WT is doped, but every team has at least a few dopers to assure worldtour status. |
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:52
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issoisso wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Those are teams with probably some clean riders, but no way they're completely clean and honest.
Any actual evidence to back up that statement?
I have to admit isso, you've got quite the set of balls there if you're asking for him to back up his statement, because you have a tendency to not do so yourself, even though you do know what you are talking about.
At first glance, your statements sometimes seem completely pulled randomly out of thin air. Twice this week I've had to look up sources just to check if your statements had any merit, and the only reason I keep doing so is because every time it turns out that what you're implying is actually plausible, and not just another random accusation.
But yeah, stop making me check your stuff for sources damnit! |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:58
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Italian teams clean? Is is opposite day?
That's racist dawg
Gustavovskiy wrote:
Mmm interesting. Has Pinot anything to do with that partial lack of trust in FDJ?
Nope. No lack of trust, just not entirely sure Madiot's learned from the past
fosforgasXIII wrote:
All three those teams are led by ex-dopers.
Oh really? That's amazing considering they're not even led by three former cyclists. Vaughters admitted to doping a very long time ago out of his own initiative and with no investigation to provoke him into it.
Explain other two, go ahead.
fosforgasXIII wrote:
All three have suspicious doctors.
Oh really? Name them.
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Thibaut Pinot becoming 10th in the Tour out of nowhere isn't suspicious at all.
Oh my god you've opened my eyes. A 21 year old mixing it up with the best in the mountains of the Dauphiné and winning major mountain stages in continental races couldn't POSSIBLY be expected to finish top 10 the next year in the weakest Tour de France field in recent memory. That's clearly a massive leap worthy of a Horner or Froome.
YOU HAVE TRULY OPENED MY EYES SIR
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Arnold Jaennesson has been linked to doping
No, he was called to testify. Massive difference
fosforgasXIII wrote:
togetter with di Gregorio.
How long ago has he not been on the team?
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Pierrick Fedrigo is dodgy as well.
Yes, the huge nose is a clear indicator of HGH use.
Sarcasm aside, any actual evidence to back up that he's "dodgy"?
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Ryder Hesjedal wins the Giro over obvious dopes as Rodriguez, Scarponi, Cunego and Basso. Makes me think of Armstrong, everyone in the top 10 used doping but HE was clean
Vaughers posted Hesjedal's blood values. His Hct actually goes DOWN during the Giro.
Not that that's relevant. In any team no matter how honest, anyone can become a rotten apple. It's about how the team deals with it after and tries to prevent it before, not about if they have anyone dodgy.
And if you're going to talk of how dodgy Hesjedal is, mention how Symmetrics didn't want him because it was common knowledge that he'd been one of the first to introduce blood vector doping to MTB, it's way more obvious than "he won a race".
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Danielson is on top level on the first race after a six-month suspension, and we all know about his past.
You're reeeeeeeeally clutching at straws there
Congratulations, you found they were once accused of doing something legal that it turned out they didn't even do.
Edited by issoisso on 23-03-2013 23:02
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| issoisso |
Posted on 23-03-2013 23:02
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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ShortsNL wrote:
issoisso wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Those are teams with probably some clean riders, but no way they're completely clean and honest.
Any actual evidence to back up that statement?
I have to admit isso, you've got quite the set of balls there if you're asking for him to back up his statement, because you have a tendency to not do so yourself, even though you do know what you are talking about.
At first glance, your statements sometimes seem completely pulled randomly out of thin air. Twice this week I've had to look up sources just to check if your statements had any merit, and the only reason I keep doing so is because every time it turns out that what you're implying is actually plausible, and not just another random accusation.
But yeah, stop making me check your stuff for sources damnit!
I can't be bothered to check for sources unless challenged. Too lazy.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 23-03-2013 23:19
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 845
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Finding evidence of riders who've never been cought yet, by just using Google is very difficult. I did the best I could.
Anyway, I respect your opinion, but I still think there's plenty of doping. In every team.
For FDJ I was obviously talking about Marc Madiot. I was mistaken with Argos, it was just a sporting direcor, Rudie Kemna, who admitted doping use and is now in suspension.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 23-03-2013 23:28
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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In other words, you didn't answer any of my questions of justify any of your accusations
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 23-03-2013 23:35
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 845
Joined: 28-10-2012
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issoisso wrote:
In other words, you didn't answer any of my questions of justify any of your accusations
No I can't prove it, but I still think those riders dope. I don't know how I came up with Fedrigo, I remembered his name from an article about doping I read a few weeks ago, but I probably confused him with another rider.
Edited by fosforgasXIII on 23-03-2013 23:38
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 24-03-2013 09:33
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Former Polti rider Andrea Nencini has died of a heart attack during a race in Italy. He was aged 39.
Let's not jump to quick conclusions for his particular case, but let's just say we should expect more of those cases if doping was legalized as some wish it was. |
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 24-03-2013 09:38
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World Champion
Posts: 10497
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May he Rest in peace. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 24-03-2013 11:39
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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RIP.
Related to Gastone Nencini?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 24-03-2013 11:49
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
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I wondered that too. If my Italian is correct it appears they weren't related. |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 25-03-2013 19:58
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World Champion
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Not the nicest way to end a bike's life 
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| Crommy |
Posted on 26-03-2013 21:42
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World Champion
Posts: 10018
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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Courtesy of a retweet from our Dear Leader:
Given the non-illegality of doping at the time in Spain, anyone know (or can guess) what charge is being pursued?
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
