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News in March
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 23-03-2013 12:31
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ShortsNL wrote:
About the team ethics, it doesn't really matter to me. You a have team that opts for a signed zero-tolerance policy but yet they currently produce results that are litterally unbelievable and not credible. Then there's a team where all the 100% busted dopeheads go because according to them, a policy of forgiveness is obviously more ethical. Then there's Vacansoleil, a team that gives riders a second chance when they are implicated but not proven to have doped (except their fail on Ricco), which carries no tainted doctors to my knowledge, and which doesn't perform remarkably in any way.
To each his own. Feel free to jump to conclusions.
I guess you forgot one category of teams : those that do their job honestly.
It's the only ones I could potentially support if I were to support one or many teams in particular. |
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 23-03-2013 13:01
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I wasn't particularly naming categories there. I was giving examples of teams with different ethical standards.
About honesty, I can't really judge who is honest or who isn't, only time will tell (for example Rabo in 07 and of course US Postal). I tend to look at credibility mostly, and credibility for me comes from the results a team gets, plus the rider/signing/doping policy they have. |
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| Wilier |
Posted on 23-03-2013 13:13
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Ligthart's irregular blood values were caused by a virus. I'd buy that.
Hoogerland has naturally high testosteron. Though I've got to admit it's strange he never really came close to his 2009 level again, but that's possibly due to his tendency to crash hard.
I agree with kumazan. Vacansoleil doesn't seem to have a doping program. But there's no denying they have some dodgy riders. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 23-03-2013 13:48
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Wilier wrote:
Ligthart's irregular blood values were caused by a virus. I'd buy that.
Me too, all guys with variations in their blood values have suffered from a lasting but never found virus.
Wilier wrote:
Hoogerland has naturally high testosteron. Though I've got to admit it's strange he never really came close to his 2009 level again, but that's possibly due to his tendency to crash hard.
Right, whichever Basque sportsman was also very manly, which is normal because he's a Basque man, so he had a naturally high testosterone value. Don't question sportsmen manhood.  Anyway, he got cleared of a positive because of that. Not sure if that was people making fun of him or if it did happen, but his wife would have testified he's really very manly. That must have cleared the doubts.
It's not like his testosterone natural or not was the only thing against him...
Wilier wrote:
I agree with kumazan. Vacansoleil doesn't seem to have a doping program. But there's no denying they have some dodgy riders.
I agree with that, but they're not a team that says "don't dope" to their riders, they're a team who says "should you be caught we'll pretend not to be aware". They're not more blind than us, they know what's going on in their team. If they let it go, they're complicit. |
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| Wilier |
Posted on 23-03-2013 14:49
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Aquarius wrote:
Wilier wrote:
Ligthart's irregular blood values were caused by a virus. I'd buy that.
Me too, all guys with variations in their blood values have suffered from a lasting but never found virus.
I still give him the benefit of the doubt.
Aquarius wrote:
Wilier wrote:
Hoogerland has naturally high testosteron. Though I've got to admit it's strange he never really came close to his 2009 level again, but that's possibly due to his tendency to crash hard.
It's not like his testosterone natural or not was the only thing against him...
Then what else is? I've never heard anything other than his positive that got cleared?
Aquarius wrote:
Wilier wrote:
I agree with kumazan. Vacansoleil doesn't seem to have a doping program. But there's no denying they have some dodgy riders.
I agree with that, but they're not a team that says "don't dope" to their riders, they're a team who says "should you be caught we'll pretend not to be aware". They're not more blind than us, they know what's going on in their team. If they let it go, they're complicit.
I'm afraid that's the truth, yes. |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 23-03-2013 15:07
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Don't think this one has been posted yet. Demare was involved in an accident during a training ride together with Levarlet. He got away with some bruises and will start in GW sunday.
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 23-03-2013 17:04
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Aquarius wrote:
ShortsNL wrote:
About the team ethics, it doesn't really matter to me. You a have team that opts for a signed zero-tolerance policy but yet they currently produce results that are litterally unbelievable and not credible. Then there's a team where all the 100% busted dopeheads go because according to them, a policy of forgiveness is obviously more ethical. Then there's Vacansoleil, a team that gives riders a second chance when they are implicated but not proven to have doped (except their fail on Ricco), which carries no tainted doctors to my knowledge, and which doesn't perform remarkably in any way.
To each his own. Feel free to jump to conclusions.
I guess you forgot one category of teams : those that do their job honestly.
It's the only ones I could potentially support if I were to support one or many teams in particular.
You still believe there're teams that do their job honestly? Topsport Vlaanderen or AccentJobs maybe, but definitely not on WT-level. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 23-03-2013 21:26
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
You still believe there're teams that do their job honestly? Topsport Vlaanderen or AccentJobs maybe, but definitely not on WT-level.
This isn't 2008, you know? There are honest teams at WorldTour level
(And AccentJobs is one of the last teams I'd think of as clean)
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Gustavovskiy |
Posted on 23-03-2013 21:39
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issoisso wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
You still believe there're teams that do their job honestly? Topsport Vlaanderen or AccentJobs maybe, but definitely not on WT-level.
This isn't 2008, you know? There are honest teams at WorldTour level
(And AccentJobs is one of the last teams I'd think of as clean)
Care to elaborate on that? I'd be interested to read whose teams you or Aquarius believe to be playing fair atm.
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 23-03-2013 21:45
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Sky ofcourse!
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 23-03-2013 21:47
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issoisso wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
You still believe there're teams that do their job honestly? Topsport Vlaanderen or AccentJobs maybe, but definitely not on WT-level.
This isn't 2008, you know? There are honest teams at WorldTour level
(And AccentJobs is one of the last teams I'd think of as clean)
AccentJobs was just an example of a small continental team without suspicious results, I've honestly no idea whether it's clean or not.
But anyway, do you really think there's any team on WT-level that rides completely clean or is at least honest when it discovers that one of their riders dopes himself.
Name me one, I'm waiting. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 23-03-2013 21:49
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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Gustavovskiy wrote:
issoisso wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
You still believe there're teams that do their job honestly? Topsport Vlaanderen or AccentJobs maybe, but definitely not on WT-level.
This isn't 2008, you know? There are honest teams at WorldTour level
(And AccentJobs is one of the last teams I'd think of as clean)
Care to elaborate on that? I'd be interested to read whose teams you or Aquarius believe to be playing fair atm.
Argos, Garmin and - up to a point - FDJ
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 23-03-2013 21:53
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Posts: 845
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issoisso wrote:
Gustavovskiy wrote:
issoisso wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
You still believe there're teams that do their job honestly? Topsport Vlaanderen or AccentJobs maybe, but definitely not on WT-level.
This isn't 2008, you know? There are honest teams at WorldTour level
(And AccentJobs is one of the last teams I'd think of as clean)
Care to elaborate on that? I'd be interested to read whose teams you or Aquarius believe to be playing fair atm.
Argos, Garmin and - up to a point - FDJ
Those are teams with probably some clean riders, but no way they're completely clean and honest. Don't be so naive.
Edited by fosforgasXIII on 23-03-2013 21:55
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| jph27 |
Posted on 23-03-2013 21:57
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What about the PCT teams? I don't see a single one I fully believe is mainly clean. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:04
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
Those are teams with probably some clean riders, but no way they're completely clean and honest.
Any actual evidence to back up that statement?
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Don't be so naive.
Well, at least you're original
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:05
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jph27 wrote:
What about the PCT teams? I don't see a single one I fully believe is mainly clean. Novo Nordisk
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:06
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jph27 wrote:
What about the PCT teams? I don't see a single one I fully believe is mainly clean.
Team Novo Nordisk, Topsport Vlaanderen - Baloise & Bardiani Valvole - CSF Inox look alright to me. MTN - Qhubeka or Bretagne - Séché Environnement among those too.
Edited by Alakagom on 23-03-2013 22:06
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:07
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World Champion
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Alakagom wrote:
jph27 wrote:
What about the PCT teams? I don't see a single one I fully believe is mainly clean.
Team Novo Nordisk, Topsport Vlaanderen - Baloise & Bardiani Valvole - CSF Inox look alright to me. MTN - Qhubeka or Bretagne - Séché Environnement among those too.
Colombia too. |
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| jph27 |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:09
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I don't trust the last 3, but would love to be wrong. Topsport I'm unsure, and I'd forgotten Novo Nordisk. |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 23-03-2013 22:11
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jph27 wrote:
Topsport I'm unsure
First team ever to let it's riders and staf sign an ethic charter.
And Bardiani: They were not a clean team in the past but with only young riders remaining in the team, it might be.
Edited by Spilak23 on 23-03-2013 22:13
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