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Petronas - Monster Energy; The end of an era
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| dienblad |
Posted on 30-08-2012 19:04
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One question: One of the next races is the Eneco Tour, with the same route as the previous 2 years. I really on't feel like playingthe entire Tour, but I'm thinking about simulating them. Does that bother someone (hey, so I can start the Vuelta sooner!)
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| Ad Bot |
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 30-08-2012 19:12
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Nah, the Eneco is really boring. It looks like it's always won by Boasson Hagen. |
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| dienblad |
Posted on 30-08-2012 21:35
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Stage 7
The last stage in this Tour de Pologne is 156 kilometres, and despite the hill sin the first part of it, a mass sprint is expected in Kraków. The question is if BMC and Visconti come with a plan to gain that soil second.
We've decided to try to prevent a mass sprint, so Visconti can't collect bonus seconds. Thanks to Sony Ericsson and Rabobank, we fail in that plan. So we have to hope that Visconti doesn't finish in the Top 3 today. And although Visconti gets close, finishing in 7th, it's enough for Thomas Dekker to win the Tour de Pologne 2013!
Oh, Tom Boonen wins the stage, beating Pozzato an Haussler.
Results
| 1 | Tom Boonen | Sony Ericsson | 3h44'17 | | 2 | Filippo Pozzato | Katusha Team | s.t. | | 3 | Heinrich Haussler | Rabobank Cycling Team | s.t. | | 4 | Giacomo Nizzolo | Lampre - Generali | s.t. | | 5 | Christopher Sutton | Pro Team Astana | s.t. | | 6 | Leigh Howard | Qantas Airways | s.t. | | 7 | Giovanni Visconti | BMC Racing Team | s.t. | | 8 | Ben Swift | Sky ProCycling | s.t. | | 9 | Mark Renshaw | Rabobank Cycling Team | s.t. | | 10 | Marco Bandiera | Omega Pharma - Quick·Step | s.t. | | ... | | 12 | Wilco Kelderman | Monster Energy - Subway | s.t. |
GC
| 1 | Thomas Dekker | Monster Energy - Subway | 29h38'58 | | 2 | Giovanni Visconti | BMC Racing Team | + 1 | | 3 | Robert Gesink | Monster Energy - Subway | + 31 | | 4 | Heinrich Haussler | Rabobank Cycling Team | + 35 | | 5 | Tom Boonen | Sony Ericsson | + 1'31 | | 6 | Lars Petter Nordhaug | Sky ProCycling | + 2'48 | | 7 | Francis De Greef | Monster Energy - Subway | + 3'05 | | 8 | Wilco Kelderman | Monster Energy - Subway | + 3'31 | | 9 | Jérôme Pineau | Saur - Sojasun | + 3'52 | | 10 | Vasil Kiryienka | Pro Team Astana | + 4'04 |
Points
| 1 | Tom Boonen | Sony Ericsson | 102 | | 2 | Heinrich Haussler | Rabobank Cycling Team | 91 | | 3 | Giacomo Nizzolo | Lampre - Generali | 67 | | 4 | Giovanni Visconti | BMC Racing Team | 63 | | 5 | Marco Bandiera | Omega Pharma - Quick·Step | 59 |
KOTM
| 1 | Sérgio Paulinho | Saxo Bank SunGard | 64 | | 2 | Kristof Vandewalle | Omega Pharma - Quick·Step | 60 | | 3 | Michael Schär | Red Bull - Cervélo | 42 | | 4 | Jonathan Castroviejo | Saur - Sojasun | 38 | | 5 | Steve Chainel | FDJ | 34 |
U25
| 1 | Wilco Kelderman | Monster Energy - Subway | 29h42'29 | | 2 | Chris Barton | Sony Ericsson | + 12'02 | | 3 | Gavin Mannion | Sony Ericsson | + 12'13 |
Teams
| 1 | Monster Energy - Subway | 89h00'20 | | 2 | Pro Team Astana | + 5'04 | | 3 | Radio Shack - Nissan | + 8'08 |
Overall winner
Word from the DS
Now this was an unexpected GC-win!! All the opponents got "eliminated" in one of the many crashes, only Visconti remained a real threat. And what a threat..... 1 second! Great win for Thomas, he really deserves this after his doping ban.
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 30-08-2012 21:41
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Dekker wins. You and Thomas deserve bananas because of this. |
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| dienblad |
Posted on 30-08-2012 21:48
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Miguel98 wrote:
Dekker wins. You and Thomas deserve bananas because of this.
Thanks! And I've decided to simulate the Eneco Tour (also because most the rider that participate have fitness levels of beow 80.....)
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| dienblad |
Posted on 30-08-2012 22:13
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Posts: 3772
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The race most riders use to prepare for the Vuelta is the Vuelta a Burgos. With many great names on the winners list (Sammy Sánchez, Valverde, Olana, Delgao and 4-times winner Lejarreta), the race attracks many top riders. Last year, the Vuelta a Burgos was won by French Christophe Kern.
Startlist
Spoiler Monster Energy - Ford
1. A.Schleck
2. J.Babbel
3. G.Bernard
4. J.Bobridge
5. P.Ligthart
6. M.Lootens
7. P.Sagan
8. J.Vanendert
Euskaltel
11. I.Antón
12. M.Astarloza
13. M.García
14. E.Gonzalo
15. M.Landa
16. I.Mayoz
17. J.J.Oroz
18. A.Peña
Caja Rural
21. E.Mosquera
22. G.César Veloso
23. V.De la Parte
24. E.García
25. J.Herrada
26. S.Mantecón
27. J.Sobrino
28. E.Teruel
Colombia es Pasión
31. J.M.Soler
32. J.Forero
33. L.Laverde
34. J.Martinez
35. J.Pantano
36. W.Pedraza
37. V.H.Peña
38. H.Valencia
Saur
41. P.Niemiec
42. E.Berthou
43. E.Cosson
44. F.Guillou
45. J.Hivert
46. J.Le Bon
47. C.Lemoine
48. G.Levarlet
Cofidis
51. A.Geniez
52. J.Fouchard
53. A.Labbe
54. A.Lemair
55. D.Moncoutié
56. D.Monier
57. D.Moreau
58. N.Vogondy
Movistar
61. G.Izagirre
62. R.Ajuntas
63. H.Guerra
64. J.Iriarte
65. I.Konovalovas
66. Á.Madrazo
67. J.Montaña
68. Ó.Pujol
Liquigas
71. E.Capecchi
72. V.Agnoli
73. G.Bosisio
74. M.Finetto
75. I.Santaromita
76. L.Sestili
77. A.Vanotti
78. C.Wurf
Andalucía
81. A.Txurruka
82. J.Benítez
83. A.Colom
84. J.Etxarri
85. Ó.García-Casarrubios
86. J.Lazarte
87. L.Á.Maté
88. D.Ortega
Nespresso
91. A.Durán
92. R.De Patre
93. F.Felline
94. F.Kessiakoff
95. P.Merino
96. D.Ratto
97. P.Urtasun
98. R.Valls
Barbot
101. E.Vorganov
102. R.Alarcón
103. A.Amorim
104. S.Caldeira
105. F.Cardoso
106. S.Henao
107. V.Rodrigues
108. R.Serrano
Onda
111. J.Cabreira
112. J.Augustyn
113. S.Kozúbek
114. B.Lima
115. J.Magallanes
116. F.Mota
117. M.Mourão
118. J.Pardo
Vacansoleil
121. J.Hoogerland
122. G.Gardeyn
123. A.Granero
124. M.Keizer
125. M.Marcato
126. F.J.Pacheco
127. M.Pavarin
128. T.Stamsnijder
Acqua & Sapone
131. S.Garzelli
132. M.Busato
133. S.Commesso
134. M.Facci
135. A.Masciarelli
136. D.Napolitano
137. B.Rizzi
138. F.Taborre
Europcar
141. M.Sprick
142. J.Cousin
143. M.Delage
144. S.Haddou
145. R.Lerouge
146. J.Loubet
147. D.Malacarne
148. S.Turgot
Tavira
151. A.Vital
152. G.Cambezes
153. V.Celis
154. D.Livramento
155. D.Mestre
156. D.Nunes
157. A.Olmo
158. L.Silva
LA
161. D.De la Fuente
162. A.Antunes
163. K.Carlström
164. M.Henriques
165. H.Oliveira
166. B.Sancho
167. S.Sousa
168. R.Vinhas
Type 1
171. D.Callegarin
172. R.Bahati
173. C.Fairly
174. A.Ilesic
175. O.Kerkhof
176. J.P.McCarty
177. J.Megías
178. A.Shmidt
Orbea
181. V.Cabedo
182. J.Aberasturi
183. P.Bilbao
184. J.Del Nero
185. U.Iparragirre
186. I.Izagirre
187. B.Urain
188. I.Zugasti
Burgos 2016
191. J.Janse Van Rensburg
192. D.Belda
193. X.Espinal
194. E.Mata
195. P.Orengo
196. L.Turpin
Team
The favourites
*** Igor Antón (Euskaltel), Andy Schleck, Jelle Vanendert.
** Gabriele Bosisio (Liquigas), Alexandre Geniez (Cofidis), Ezequiel Mosquera (Caja Rural).
* Mikel Astarloza (Euskaltel), Johnny Hoogerland (Vacansoleil), Fredrik Kessiakoff (Nespresso).
Stage 1
The first stage from Villasana de Mena to Medina de Pomar (173km) is pretty flat, except for a short climb that is to be found 3 times on the route.
It's breakaway time today, as the BOTD with 14 riders (none of them GC-favourites) stays out of reach of the peloton. Well, the peloton really doesn't feel like cycling today, as it finishes almost 7 minutes behind the winner. That winner is Basque Pello Bilbao. He ha sattacked out of the BOTD, and takes his first season win. Will this be enough to promote from satellite-team Orbea to Euskaltel?
Results
| 1 | Pello Bilbao | Orbea Continental | 3h55'40 | | 2 | Mickaël Delage | Team Europcar | + 58 | | 3 | Pablo Urtasun | Nespresso - Algarve | s.t. | | 4 | Javier Megías | Team Type 1 | + 1'38 | | 5 | Daniel Mestre | Tavira - Prio | s.t. | | 6 | Stanislav Kozúbek | Onda | s.t. | | 7 | Eric Berthou | Saur - Sojasun | s.t. | | 8 | Samuel Caldeira | Barbot - Efapel | s.t. | | 9 | Javier Iriarte | Movistar Team | s.t. | | 10 | Enrique Mata | Burgos 2016 - Castilla y León | s.t. |
Stage 2
In the 2nd stage, the riders enter the mountains with a mountain top finish in/at Mirano de Ebro, although the final climb isn't difficult.
Andy Schleck decides to work for his Belgium team mate Jelle Vanendert, and with succes. Vanendert manages to beat Igor Antón in the uphill sprint.
Results
| 1 | Jelle Vanendert | Monster Energy - Subway | 3h49'00 | | 2 | Igor Antón | Euskaltel - Euskadi | s.t. | | 3 | Andy Schleck | Monster Energy - Subway | + 21 | | 4 | Johnny Hoogerland | Vacansoleil - DCM Pro Cycling Team | + 53 | | 5 | Gabriele Bosisio | Liquigas - Cannondale | + 1'30 | | 6 | Marcos García | Euskaltel - Euskadi | + 2'05 | | 7 | Ángel Madrazo | Movistar Team | + 2'14 | | 8 | Antonio Colom | Andalucía Caja Granada | + 2'36 | | 9 | Alexandre Geniez | Cofidis, le crédit en ligne | + 3'13 | | 10 | Jarlinson Pantano | Colombia es Pasión - Café de Colombia | + 3'30 |
Stage 3
The 3rd stage is a 14.6km ITT to Melgar de Fernamental.
We have a surprising stage winner today, as Saur-Sojasun's Cyril Lemoine takes the win, being 4 seconds faster than Tom Stamsnijder and Alexandre Geniez.
Igor Antón takes the GC-lead after finishing in 6th place, '10 faster than Andy Schleck and '45 than Jelle Vanendert.
Results
| 1 | Cyril Lemoine | Saur - Sojasun | 20'53 | | 2 | Tom Stamsnijder | Vacansoleil - DCM Pro Cycling Team | + 4 | | 3 | Alexandre Geniez | Cofidis, le crédit en ligne | s.t. | | 4 | Francisco José Pacheco | Vacansoleil - DCM Pro Cycling Team | + 5 | | 5 | Gustavo César Veloso | Caja Rural | + 7 | | 6 | Igor Antón | Euskaltel - Euskadi | + 8 | | 7 | Gorka Izagirre | Movistar Team | + 9 | | 8 | Peter Sagan | Monster Energy - Subway | + 12 | | 9 | Damien Monier | Cofidis, le crédit en ligne | s.t. | | 10 | Juan José Oroz | Euskaltel - Euskadi | + 13 |
GC
| 1 | Igor Antón | Euskaltel - Euskadi | 8h12'11 | | 2 | Andy Schleck | Monster Energy - Subway | + 33 | | 3 | Jelle Vanendert | Monster Energy - Subway | + 37 | | 4 | Johnny Hoogerland | Vacansoleil - DCM Pro Cycling Team | + 1'20 | | 5 | Gabriele Bosisio | Liquigas - Cannondale | + 2'02 | | 6 | Pello Bilbao | Orbea Continental | + 2'20 | | 7 | Marcos García | Euskaltel - Euskadi | + 2'33 | | 8 | Ángel Madrazo | Movistar Team | + 2'44 | | 9 | Antonio Colom | Andalucía Caja Granada | + 3'04 | | 10 | Alexandre Geniez | Cofidis, le crédit en ligne | + 3'21 |
2 more stages to go!
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| dienblad |
Posted on 30-08-2012 22:27
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Posts: 3772
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Stage 4
Anothe rhilly stage to Salas de los Infantes, and another breakaway win. LA's David De la Fuente is the strongest today. Igor Antón attacked on the last hill, but was easily caught, so no changes in the GC.
Results
| 1 | David De la Fuente | LA - Antarte | 3h55'53 | | 2 | Vitor Rodrigues | Barbot - Efapel | + 1'40 | | 3 | Francisco José Pacheco | Vacansoleil - DCM Pro Cycling Team | + 3'34 | | 4 | Andrea Masciarelli | Acqua & Sapone | s.t. | | 5 | Caleb Fairly | Team Type 1 | + 5'18 | | 6 | Ivan Santaromita | Liquigas - Cannondale | + 5'34 | | 7 | Jacques Janse Van Rensburg | Burgos 2016 - Castilla y León | + 7'00 | | 8 | Igor Antón | Euskaltel - Euskadi | + 8'11 | | 9 | Peter Sagan | Monster Energy - Subway | s.t. | | 10 | Marcos García | Euskaltel - Euskadi | s.t. |
Stage 5
The last stage of the Vuelta a Burgos is the most difficult one. 193 kilometres, 5 categorized climbs and 4936 height metres, with the finish at the Lagunas de Neila.
We see a surpriseattack by GC-leader Igor Antón before the summit of the penultimate climb. Jelle Vanendert has to work hard to catch Antón. Before the foot of the climb, a group of 21 riders join each other. Immediately, Andy Schleck sets a high pace and only Antón can follow. But Antón doesn't crack...
Schleck wins the stage, while Antón wins the GC (by only 8 seconds!).
Results
| 1 | Andy Schleck | Monster Energy - Subway | 5h44'11 | | 2 | Igor Antón | Euskaltel - Euskadi | + 17 | | 3 | Gorka Izagirre | Movistar Team | + 1'13 | | 4 | Marcos García | Euskaltel - Euskadi | + 1'19 | | 5 | Alexandre Geniez | Cofidis, le crédit en ligne | + 1'44 | | 6 | Ezequiel Mosquera | Caja Rural | + 2'38 | | 7 | Amets Txurruka | Andalucía Caja Granada | s.t. | | 8 | Juan Mauricio Soler | Colombia es Pasión - Café de Colombia | + 2'46 | | 9 | José Herrada | Caja Rural | + 2'54 | | 10 | Eros Capecchi | Liquigas - Cannondale | + 3'01 |
GC
| 1 | Igor Antón | Euskaltel - Euskadi | 18h00'31 | | 2 | Andy Schleck | Monster Energy - Subway | + 8 | | 3 | Jelle Vanendert | Monster Energy - Subway | + 3'42 | | 4 | Marcos García | Euskaltel - Euskadi | + 3'47 | | 5 | Johnny Hoogerland | Vacansoleil - DCM Pro Cycling Team | + 4'31 | | 6 | Alexandre Geniez | Cofidis, le crédit en ligne | + 5'00 | | 7 | Gabriele Bosisio | Liquigas - Cannondale | + 5'07 | | 8 | Juan Mauricio Soler | Colombia es Pasión - Café de Colombia | + 6'45 | | 9 | Sergio Mantecón | Caja Rural | + 7'12 | | 10 | Eros Capecchi | Liquigas - Cannondale | + 7'20 |
Points
| 1 | Igor Antón | Euskaltel - Euskadi | 58 | | 2 | Andy Schleck | Monster Energy - Subway | 43 | | 3 | Alexandre Geniez | Cofidis, le crédit en ligne | 35 | | 4 | Francisco José Pacheco | Vacansoleil - DCM Pro Cycling Team | 35 | | 5 | Jelle Vanendert | Monster Energy - Subway | 31 |
KOTM
| 1 | Igor Antón | Euskaltel - Euskadi | 40 | | 2 | Andy Schleck | Monster Energy - Subway | 30 | | 3 | Amets Txurruka | Andalucía Caja Granada | 23 | | 4 | Marcos García | Euskaltel - Euskadi | 22 | | 5 | David Moncoutié | Cofidis, le crédit en ligne | 20 |
Overall winner
Word from the DS
This was a good rehearsel before the Vuelta. Okay, Andy would have won the GC if he han't helped Vanendert in stage 2, but we don't care. We know that Anton will be string in the Vuelta, although he has a lot of racedays.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 31-08-2012 08:10
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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Important thing is that he showed his form here! Will we get an overall report (top 10 or so) from Eneco tour if you simulate? |
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| dienblad |
Posted on 31-08-2012 15:49
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3772
Joined: 10-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Ian Butler wrote:
Important thing is that he showed his form here! Will we get an overall report (top 10 or so) from Eneco tour if you simulate?
Of course I will do that!
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 31-08-2012 16:02
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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Excellent!  |
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 31-08-2012 17:13
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 34654
Joined: 22-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Brilliant win for Dekker in Poland
And nice riding from the team in Burgos |
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| dienblad |
Posted on 31-08-2012 21:40
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3772
Joined: 10-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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The Eneco Tour. When Belgium an the Netherlands can't organize a World Tour stage race, why not try it together and convince the UCI. Mission accomplished! The 7-stage race mostly contains some flat stages, something in the Dutch hills, Ardennes and cobbles, but in the end, the TT will be decisive. Just as last year, when Edvald Boasson Hagen took the GC-win.
Our teams
So as said before, I've simulated the Eneco Tour. Reason: 3rd consecutive year with the same route and with all the riders with a fitness level below 80 (or little above).
Stage 1
Fabian Cancellara wins the prologue in Amersfoort, with Sébastien Rosseler in a surprising 2nd place. Also Kittel (6th) and Posthuma (9th) make it into the top 10.
Stage 2
The first flat stage to Sint-Willebrord ends in a mass sprint. Sky's Mark Cavendish wins the sprint, beating Marcel Kittel and José Joaquín Rojas. Thanks to the bonus seconds, Kittel becomes the new GC-leader.
Stage 3
Oh, what do I hate simulating..... A few small hills, and about 1 kilometre of cobbles in a 173 kilometre route, and in a simuated stage the cobbled riders create huge gaps.....
Philippe Gilbert wins the stage, with Fabian Cancellara (new GC-leader) in 2nd and Johan Vansummeren in 3rd in the same time and all of our riders loosing more than 1 minute (some more than 3-4....).
Stage 4
After the cobbles, come the Ardennes hills. And again Gilbert takes the win. Only Summy is able to follow him, with Cancellara loosing '47. Thanks to some more time gaps, Joost Posthuma climbs to the 8th place.
Stage 5
The "long" ITT is only 14.7km, and Spartacus gets beaten. It's the young Dane Rasmus Quaade who takes the win. Joost Posthuma finishes in 5th place, and improves to the 6th in the GC.
Stage 6
The 2nd mass sprint of the Eneco Tour is in Genk, and again Cavendish wins it. Kittel takes another 2nd, followed by Nizzolo.
Stage 7
Although featuring some Limburg-hills, also the last stage ends in a mass sprint. And the outcome is a copy from the previous 2 mass sprints: Mark Cavendish wins it after being faster thanMarcel Kittel. 3rd place is this time for Rojas, again.
GC
Philippe Gilbert wins the 2013 Eneco Tour, thanks to the 3rd and 4th stage. 2n place is for Cancellara and 3rd for Vansummeren. Joost Posthuma finishes in a surprising 6th place, what is a great result!
Winner
Word from the DS
Think the outcome was better with simulating it than when I had played it. 4 times a 2nd place in a stage, and 6th in the GC.
Edited by dienblad on 31-08-2012 21:41
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 31-08-2012 23:00
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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Good job by Poosthuma!
But simulating can be real crap, I agree  |
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 31-08-2012 23:11
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 34654
Joined: 22-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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The team put in some fine results during the race and deserved much more out of it. Still a 6th placed finish by Posthuma is a Good result  |
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| dienblad |
Posted on 31-08-2012 23:53
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3772
Joined: 10-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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The first of 4 days of one day races is the Tre Valli Varesine near Vares, Italy. Last year, we won the race with Robert Gesink. This year, we only send our C-team, so only a short report.
Our young Luxembourg rider Gregory Bernard was present in a 7-man BOTD, together with riders as Maciej Paterski (Liquigas) and Simon Geschke (Red Bull). Bernard surprisingly was the last rider of the 7 that remained in front of the peloton, and started the last climb with a small lead.
But when Fränk Schleck attacked out of that group (24 riders), he also blasted past Bernard, and took the win. Bernard still had some energy left to finish just inside the top 10 (10th), his best result so far in his short career! He wasn't the best from our team, as Martijn Maaskant took the 8th place.
So the win was for Fränk Schleck, followed by Yaroslav Popovych and Dario Cataldo.
| 1 | Fränk Schleck | Omega Pharma - Quick·Step | 4h44'00 | | 2 | Yaroslav Popovych | D'Angelo & Antenucci - Nippo | + 11 | | 3 | Dario Cataldo | Omega Pharma - Quick·Step | + 28 | | 4 | Rafael Valls | Nespresso - Algarve | s.t. | | 5 | Mattia Cattaneo | Farnese Vini - Neri Sottoli | s.t. | | 6 | Enrico Gasparotto | Lampre - Generali | + 45 | | 7 | Federico Canuti | Colnago - CSF Inox | s.t. | | 8 | Martijn Maaskant | Monster Energy - Subway | s.t. | | 9 | Emanuele Vona | Farnese Vini - Neri Sottoli | + 57 | | 10 | Gregory Bernard | Monster Energy - Subway | s.t. |
Word from the DS
Maaskant finished in a good 8th place, but the team is very proud of Bernard. Being in the attack for about 100km, and still finishing in 10th place.... A great future awaits him!
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| maxime86 |
Posted on 01-09-2012 00:25
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2950
Joined: 01-03-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Wow what a great story dienblad, congrats |
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| dienblad |
Posted on 01-09-2012 00:32
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3772
Joined: 10-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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maxime86 wrote:
Wow what a great story dienblad, congrats
Thanks a lot!!
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 01-09-2012 01:29
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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+1. Great stroy. And it will be even better when the team isn't so OP next year.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 01-09-2012 08:15
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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+2 possibly the best story in the community here |
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| dienblad |
Posted on 01-09-2012 09:29
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3772
Joined: 10-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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I think you guys are exaggerating a bit 
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