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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 05-05-2014 02:34
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I don't think it's reasonable to say Froome/Sky are on more/better drugs than anyone else. That may well have been true in the last two years, however I think with the record times we say in the Ardennes, and Contadors resurgence, it is likely that whatever technological advantage (illegal or legal) which they had has been competed away, or at least minimised.
I suspect it's a couple more years before the Tour becomes an anyone but Sky race for the riders, but I'm hoping it will be a genuinely competitive race.
As for riding styles, Froome, Contador and Nibali are all pleasantly aggressive when they know where they stand in the pecking order. I suspect that the will avoid taking risks when they are unsure if they are strong enough, which may well be the scenario for the early part of the tour.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| atlanta |
Posted on 05-05-2014 04:20
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baseballlover312 wrote:
atlanta wrote:
Baseballover i bet your Garmin team dopes too. Dont deny your team you support is shady. I mean JV and cough cough " i got away with it" Hesjedal.
Every team has their shady riders. And that includes Garmin. but you can't seriously compare them to Sky.
Why not? I mean isit because Garmin have not won the TDF people like to miss the fact Wiggo big transformation was at Garmin not Sky.
Whodo you trust more Vaughters or Brailsford? |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 05-05-2014 05:59
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cunego59 wrote:
I don't get it. Whenever someone comes along with a post like atlanta or EwanWilson, just link this post. It contains most of the arguments why we generally think that Sky's doping, and it might be a good starting point to any pontential further discussion.
Because you can't just expect anybody to be as informed. If you don't have all the information, it might just be a valid opinion to think that Sky could be clean.
Giving actual arguments instead of a facepalm could help keeping this thread somewhat meaningful.
While i agree that that post sums it up nicely, i think what is going on here is much more funny. 
I see that some of you are too serious guys, this is the internet forum, not gentlemen club or nursery school. We have had shitload (more than 100 pages) of somewhat pointy discussion about SKY and their doping. If somebody is ignoring that and post something like recent SKY fanboy, you would like to take him seriously? It costs much more time than it deserves. Because of that, Aquarius posted best thing possible, while still avoiding being rude (on another forum it would be like "you STUPID b*tch matafaka lame noob idiot" and we can be glad this is not happening on Daily).
@mb: I agree, but it does not change anything on fact that SKY is making worldbeaters from nobodies, while likes of Valverde, Contador are probably top riders also on less/without dope (just my version, of course we dont know, maybe hey do it since teenage)
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| Shonak |
Posted on 05-05-2014 07:49
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@atlanta: Well, your two examples of Froome "attacking" don't really do it for me. I don't count that one tiny little attack at Catalunya. We're talking attacks, not some half-hearted attempts at them...
Vuelta 2012 is a great example actually: Froome "attacked" as long as he thought he was the best, but when it was clear that he wasn't, nothing was to be seen of him of the entire race. I honestly thought, Froome dropped out at some point and was rather surprised to see him every time so high in the GC.  Oh, and please don't come up with Froome's Vuelta 2011 against Cobo of all people...
Edited by Shonak on 05-05-2014 07:50
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 05-05-2014 09:15
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Oh well, I didn't mean to go personal against somebody I don't know (I don't know anyone here, so to say, but Ewan Wilson is somebody I really don't know).
I was mocking the statement though, because it uses two or three arguments that don't make sense, are lame or/and just totally flawed, and pretends to come with an incontestable conclusion that is so obviously wrong. That was a bit too much for a point-by-point answer. I thought that having a laugh or a smile was just as appropriate.
If one would bother reading the whole thread, or just the message you could find in cunego59's statement, and have some common sense, you should admit there's reasonable doubts over Sky's integrity, and that it might be wise to not jump to a conclusion like "SKY ARE NOT DOPED, END OF STORY".
And thanks bbl for bringing some truth about my age in this discussion. |
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 05-05-2014 09:32
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But, do you really think that someone's going to read 130+ pages, Avin? Why not just linking him the lluuiiiggii's post, which sums up the Sky's situation perfectly, indstead of facepalming? I understand that all of us are bored of these guys and situations (with all respect to these guys), but it's just obvious that he's here for a short time and has no idea what he's talking about, but just fan-boying around.
That was my point, but Ewan (probably) read what lluuiiggii wrote there and he (hopefully) got an unbiased opinon about all of this, now. 
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 18:26
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 05-05-2014 09:54
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Aquarius wrote:
And thanks bbl for bringing some truth about my age in this discussion.
Give Aquarius a break - he's so old and has been around here so long and responded to these arguments so many times that he should be allowed to be a bit blunt once in a while 
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| wogsrus |
Posted on 05-05-2014 10:03
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Without any hard evidence, there isn't any point in even discussing whether a person or team is doping or not.... |
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| Schleck96 |
Posted on 05-05-2014 10:16
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How can someone feel "offended" with Aquarius's reply? What are you? 7 year old kids? Take it easy.... |
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| Luis Leon Sanchez |
Posted on 05-05-2014 10:21
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I must say.
I found Aquarius's post rather amusing
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 05-05-2014 10:33
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wogsrus wrote:
Without any hard evidence, there isn't any point in even discussing whether a person or team is doping or not....
If there was hard evidence there wouldn't be any point discussing it....
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 05-05-2014 17:16
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atlanta wrote:
Cunego i think you will find i did not say Froome is clean I was saying it is very hypocritcial to support a doper and hate one at same time. And Shonak Froome attacks when he is not on form to so you cant say its easy when your the best. Did you watch Catalunya this year Froome attacked after they bought Fuglsang back, also im sure you remember Froome blowing himself up in La Vuelta.
Aah that's why everyone hates him... not only is he a cyclist but a terrorist too 
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| atlanta |
Posted on 05-05-2014 17:48
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@Shonak
Lets just agree to disagree you must have missed La Vuelta though as Froome was spent in the final week and a half he was gone after stage 8 or 9 really. He attacked them when the pace slowed down and showed heart he was weak yet attacked them and blew himself up in the process. |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 05-05-2014 18:01
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I find it quite amusing that this thread is still kicking, for the most part arguments on one side if this are just a pie of S%#T!
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| Cobbs96 |
Posted on 05-05-2014 18:09
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I don't know too much on the topic of Doping but im pretty sure the majority are using something to enhance their performance personally I think that the big teams such as sky movistar and saxo tinkoff etc are on a level playing field in terms of banned substances the likes of europcar and fdj are at a disadvantage
El Pistelero Fan
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 05-05-2014 18:19
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A level playing field is an illusion, but it was already the argument in the 90's.
Like for drugs, medicines, training, etc., every one reacts differently to external factors.
It's hard to tell who's on what, it's merely guessing, and probably not all the riders. As you can see with Sky, only the guys who're part of their mountain train have had major improvements after joining the team, the others have pretty much remained at their former level.
It must be said there's also dodgy doctors who're still active, sometimes despite being banned, and who'll heal, erm dope or help dope riders from different teams but with a common goal (TDF GC for example). See Operacion Puerto for example, Ullrich and Basso got busted, or the clients of Ferrari (even in the post-Armstrong era).
As for Europcar, they went a bit heavy on the corticoids side in 2011 and got blamed for it, they're quieter now, but I wouldn't put a blind faith in a team that once signed Joseba Beloki.
Now on a scale from 0 (not doped) to 10 (heavy doping with EPO, blood transfusions, etc.), corticoids are worth a 2 or a 3. |
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| Elch |
Posted on 05-05-2014 19:30
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Strydz wrote:
[...] for the most part arguments on one side if this are just a pie of S%#T!
And this is the first point in the entire thread, that both sides will agree upon.  |
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| Martial1 |
Posted on 05-05-2014 23:48
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I think that Sky are doped.
That being said, the atmosphere on Daily is that it's OK to think Sky is doped and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot who hasn't done their research. Sure, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence against Sky, but there is no sure proof, like wackojacko said. Because of that, we can't call people idiots just because they think differently than the majority. If we want to have a real discussion about Sky's doping, then we have to try to understand both sides of the argument and not immediately shun the person who thinks Sky is clean. Just my two cents. |
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| Cossack |
Posted on 06-05-2014 05:18
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I think the problem is that those who defend Sky don't provide us with any evidence, just this usual "we train harder, marginal gains" etc etc Brailsford's bullshit.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 06-05-2014 05:51
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Yeah, but to be fair, it's harder to prove that they don't dope, I suppose.
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