Yup, strange coindince; maybe he saved himself for Pyrennees, which would be real smart, or just had a good day, regardless it's great to see basque fans on the sideline so that must have been quite some motivation for him. Looking forward to see more of him on next two stages, hopefully breakaway win.
My avatar wills it! Sadly the continental Euskadi team is definitely shutting up shop this time around, and without closing out the season with the team coming to an end in August, so I would love to see the Basques get a win in the Pyrenees.
It has nothing to do with the Clen case, it was actually (for a change) a semi-plausible excuse for it being in his system, he was cleared for that, sweet. it's all about his past when it is well documented that the UCI were very relaxed about suspicious values. Why would you enjoy watching unpunished cheats win? He is part of the problem along with a whole bunch of other riders who need to be shown the door.
Call me "butt-hurt" if you want but I just enjoy the beauty of cycling and don't get and will never get why people need to cheat, it's just sad and pathetic.
Ok, i thought it was that you referred to because before that i don't recall any positive cases against him.
Also you do know right that by calling Rogers a doper, you are also calling everyone who ever beat him a doper right? because knowing who he is and his skill, how else would anyone beat him.
And the beauty of cycling? hmm, are you also angry at Sky when they have specially made cycles in a price range only a few other teams can compete with? or that they have one of the biggest budgets in the sport.
But i honestly cant see a problem, Doping has and always will be a part of the sport and even Armstrong´s win is still part of the biggest achievements in cycling, yes he might have been doped, but he was still the best out of everyone else who was also doped. Like with Merkx and Lemond , Lemonds win against Hinault are probably one of the best most exciting duels i have ever seen in the tour.
Anyways Rogers is until he is actually caught and banned considered innoncent, its all speculations and like with Froome and Porte they are innocent until proven guilty not the other way around.
Yup, strange coindince; maybe he saved himself for Pyrennees, which would be real smart, or just had a good day, regardless it's great to see basque fans on the sideline so that must have been quite some motivation for him. Looking forward to see more of him on next two stages, hopefully breakaway win.
My avatar wills it! Sadly the continental Euskadi team is definitely shutting up shop this time around, and without closing out the season with the team coming to an end in August, so I would love to see the Basques get a win in the Pyrenees.
Love that avatar.
I thought Madariaga and others had secured a future for Euskadi Team by now, or at least they were bound to make it happen long-term? Jeez, very disappointed.
But yeah, with thought of that, a win by Intxausti, Nieve or Izagirre would be even more fantastic, basque cycling needs sparks.
Edited by Shonak on 22-07-2014 17:12
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
Kruijswijk reaching his Giro 2011 form, 18th now, and Porte and Thomas in front of him who he is able to pass. Very good performance by him imo! Good to see him back in form.
God, you are reminding me of Mayo now, Shonak. The most iconic sequence for me in cycling was Mayo's soft pedalling style-attack at Alpe d' Huez along with Valv's Courchevel-stage. Those memories....
Guido Mukk wrote:
One fact..
Rogers is from T-Mobile and he is climber. So 90% that he was also doped like everyone on that team.
He was doped, not now.
Just look at Saxo this year:
Contador: 'nuff said
Rogers: 2 stage wins in the Giro incl. Zoncolan (ok he was helped by idiot spectator) but still...; and now win in TdF
Majka: suddenly flying in the TdF and holds off Nibbles after being in the break, having done good Giro GC
Not saying anything, just something which one could draw some conclusions from
Yeah. The fact that they even have victories this year like every other team seems highly suspisous.
You've missed the point by roughly the width of the Pyrenees there
Iguwell wrote:
Rogers is a really dodgy rider. Saw this coming from far away. He was a huge dissapointment in all his "prime years" and then he joins SKY and suddenly he is a motorcycle. How can he even be in top shape in a full Giro, win 2 stages and then last so long in the Tour?
Tinkoff Saxo is just too dodgy.
Are you actually serious? He is 3 times World Champion in TTs 2003, 2004, 2005. That was his year 23, 24 and 25.
He was 6th in the Young Riders competition in 2003 TdF, finishing 4th on a huge mountainstage to Morzine, a stage won by Richard Virenque. That year he also won the Tour of Belgium.
In 2004 he got bronze at the Olympics besides winning world championships. He was then 22nd GC at the Tour de France, being 4th best young rider. He also performed well at Paris-Nice becoming 8th.
In 2005 he finished 2nd in Tour of Switzerland, 4th in Catalunya, 8th in Pais Vasco and did reasonably at the TdF being a helper.
Those was his QUICKSTEP years!
In 2006 he joined T-Mobile and claimed 9th GC in the Tour de France at the age of 26, despite being a domestique for Andreas Klöden.
Then in 2007 he got 2nd in Catalunya, 4th in Settimana Coppi e Bartali, 7th at Tour of California and unfortunately had to withdraw from the Tour de France.
In 2008 at HTC Colombia, he did 11th in Dauphine, got 6th in the Olympic Roadrace and 8th in the Olympic TT, 3rd at ENECO Tour and did NOT race Tour de France.
In 2009, still at HTC, he claimed 2nd in Tour of California, 8th at Pais Vasco, and 8th GC in his first ever Giro d'Italia! Also getting several stage top 10s during the race. He did not do well at the Tour de France, but was also mainly there as helper for Mark Cavendish.
In 2010, same team, although new name, he won the Vuelta a Andalucia, got 6th at Tirreno-Adriatico, 2nd at Criterium International, 3rd at Tour of Romandie, won the Tour of California and did respectably at the TdF again helping Mark Cavendish.
Those were his "prime years" where he did nothing apparently. Besides 3 times World Champion TT, twice in top 10 of a GT and several wins and top 10 in rather well aknowledged Pro Tour Races. Also getting 3/4 Top 10s in Olympic races. Hmm right. He always was a sucky rider, and now out of the blue is amazing.
His first year at SKY was probably his worst EVER, getting nothing except getting 12th GC at Paris-Nice. He did not win a single stage all year long, and most of the time he wasn't even close. Then in 2012 he went back to his normal level of riding, getting 3rd at Criterium International (Having previously gotten 2nd), 7th Tour of Romandie (Having previously gotten 3rd), getting 2nd at Dauphine and 23rd at the TdF (Having done better twice - Once even in top 10)
Last year he was 2nd at Tour of California (Having previously won the race), 6th at Dauphine (Was 2nd last year, and top 10 earlier in his career), and 16th at the Tour de France.
This year is the first EVER where his main focus are Giro d'Italia and Tour de France. Looking at his race schedule clearly reveals that. Getting 18th at the Giro while taking two stagewins is a good result, but nothing out of the ordinary if you look at his past. And now getting a stagewin in the Tour de France, on the stage that suits him the best, with a peloton not chasing. Seriously. Have you been living in outer space the past 15 years or so?
I thought Madariaga and others had secured a future for Euskadi Team by now, or at least they were bound to make it happen long-term? Jeez, very disappointed.
But yeah, with thought of that, a win by Intxausti, Nieve or Izagirre would be even more fantastic, basque cycling needs sparks.
I thought that too, but obviously circumstances changed unfortunately. It hasn't really been in the English-speaking press that much, but it has been doing the rounds in the Spanish media.
I can only hope that something new can rise out of the ashes like a phoenix.
Iguwell wrote:
Rogers is a really dodgy rider. Saw this coming from far away. He was a huge dissapointment in all his "prime years" and then he joins SKY and suddenly he is a motorcycle. How can he even be in top shape in a full Giro, win 2 stages and then last so long in the Tour?
Tinkoff Saxo is just too dodgy.
Are you actually serious? He is 3 times World Champion in TTs 2003, 2004, 2005. That was his year 23, 24 and 25.
He was 6th in the Young Riders competition in 2003 TdF, finishing 4th on a huge mountainstage to Morzine, a stage won by Richard Virenque. That year he also won the Tour of Belgium.
In 2004 he got bronze at the Olympics besides winning world championships. He was then 22nd GC at the Tour de France, being 4th best young rider. He also performed well at Paris-Nice becoming 8th.
In 2005 he finished 2nd in Tour of Switzerland, 4th in Catalunya, 8th in Pais Vasco and did reasonably at the TdF being a helper.
Those was his QUICKSTEP years!
In 2006 he joined T-Mobile and claimed 9th GC in the Tour de France at the age of 26, despite being a domestique for Andreas Klöden.
Then in 2007 he got 2nd in Catalunya, 4th in Settimana Coppi e Bartali, 7th at Tour of California and unfortunately had to withdraw from the Tour de France.
In 2008 at HTC Colombia, he did 11th in Dauphine, got 6th in the Olympic Roadrace and 8th in the Olympic TT, 3rd at ENECO Tour and did NOT race Tour de France.
In 2009, still at HTC, he claimed 2nd in Tour of California, 8th at Pais Vasco, and 8th GC in his first ever Giro d'Italia! Also getting several stage top 10s during the race. He did not do well at the Tour de France, but was also mainly there as helper for Mark Cavendish.
In 2010, same team, although new name, he won the Vuelta a Andalucia, got 6th at Tirreno-Adriatico, 2nd at Criterium International, 3rd at Tour of Romandie, won the Tour of California and did respectably at the TdF again helping Mark Cavendish.
Those were his "prime years" where he did nothing apparently. Besides 3 times World Champion TT, twice in top 10 of a GT and several wins and top 10 in rather well aknowledged Pro Tour Races. Also getting 3/4 Top 10s in Olympic races. Hmm right. He always was a sucky rider, and now out of the blue is amazing.
His first year at SKY was probably his worst EVER, getting nothing except getting 12th GC at Paris-Nice. He did not win a single stage all year long, and most of the time he wasn't even close. Then in 2012 he went back to his normal level of riding, getting 3rd at Criterium International (Having previously gotten 2nd), 7th Tour of Romandie (Having previously gotten 3rd), getting 2nd at Dauphine and 23rd at the TdF (Having done better twice - Once even in top 10)
Last year he was 2nd at Tour of California (Having previously won the race), 6th at Dauphine (Was 2nd last year, and top 10 earlier in his career), and 16th at the Tour de France.
This year is the first EVER where his main focus are Giro d'Italia and Tour de France. Looking at his race schedule clearly reveals that. Getting 18th at the Giro while taking two stagewins is a good result, but nothing out of the ordinary if you look at his past. And now getting a stagewin in the Tour de France, on the stage that suits him the best, with a peloton not chasing. Seriously. Have you been living in outer space the past 15 years or so?
I didn't ask for a palmares of Rogers and I understand why Tinkoff-Saxo fans want to defend their riders. But Rogers was a promising rider, but when he moved away from T-Mobile his "talent" suddenly completely dissapeared. You've listed a bunch of anonymous results in minor races.
His reults lately have been strange too. When Contador crashes out and Rogers isn't in the GC how come he still rides in top 20 in recent mountain stages? It makes no sense, Why would he ride for secondary positions on every hard stage when he could sit back and restore energy? It looks like he isn't even riding full power while making it in before several favourites - because he had absolutely nothing to ride for in these stages. He just seems to have "too much stamina".
Iguwell, what are you talking about? in the Giro he was very good, on top form. The Tour he is not on top form, but he still can stay with guys like Voeckler, Serpa, Kyrienka and Gautier on the climb. Those are not the strongest riders out there (with all due respect). So, this win is not that strange imo.
Really great stage. Movistar had great support but Valverde is again just too weak to do anything. The furthest Valverde can fall now is 4th overall. Pinot looks really good so Valverde probably needed to try harder to gain time on Pinot on the descent.
And speaking of descents, Konig must have made up a minute atleast after the summit of the final climb. Great day by him.
And finally, I wish Peraud switched to the road sooner. I wonder what this guy could have been doing in his mid 20's instead of mid 30's. He's probably solidified himself as one of the best climbers at this Tour at the age of 37.
Meanwhile Zubeldia 11th overall - I must have seen him about twice in the whole race?
This is just what Zubeldia does in GT's over the last few seasons, you never notice him then he suddenly appears in or around the top 10 in the GC. Mr Anonymous
kinda like Monfort, you never see him but his last four GT's he finished 15 (TdF 2012), 16 (Vuelta 2012), 14 (TdF 2013) and 14 (Giro, 2014)
Trofimov is doing something similar btw... I have been HUUUUGELY dissapointed by the fact that he hasn't been in a single breakaway. There have been atleast 4 stages that would have suited him well, today including. He could have done a Kwiatkowski today and raced into top 10, and then with some luck not crack much worse than the others around him. Instead he just settles for being the best of the shitty riders.
Awful race for Bardet and Van Garderen. Lol at Kwiatek, he's 9th now in GC, yet couldn't even hold up with 2-tier riders. Boy needs to work on his mountain climbing ASAP. But ffs, 3 french in Top 5... craaazy.
I'm not really sure that is where his focus should be. For a Sagan-kinda-rider 9th in the GC at this point is a huge acomplishment. IMO there's no hurry for him to become a GC rider. He should still target those ardennes while he has the kick to do so. Then he can probably do GT's when he is a bit older.
Regarding to miracle König´s descent skill, he said his former teammate Roger Kluge waited for him after Port de Balles and helped him a lot to chase Nibali´s group down before finish. Big respect to Kluge as well!!!
valverde321 wrote:
Really great stage. Movistar had great support but Valverde is again just too weak to do anything. The furthest Valverde can fall now is 4th overall. Pinot looks really good so Valverde probably needed to try harder to gain time on Pinot on the descent.
And speaking of descents, Konig must have made up a minute atleast after the summit of the final climb. Great day by him.
And finally, I wish Peraud switched to the road sooner. I wonder what this guy could have been doing in his mid 20's instead of mid 30's. He's probably solidified himself as one of the best climbers at this Tour at the age of 37.
Ten dam and Zubeldia were with König on the start of the descent, but Zubeldia had a flat tire and Ten Dam almost fell but he didn't, but he had to let König go... König got to the cars and could catch up, Ten Dam had to ride the whole descent alone. Too bad for Ten Dam, I think he can get 6th even, he is climbing really well this Tour. König is really good aswell, solid top 10 GC rider.
About Peraud: Indeed, such a shame that is. He could've won the Tour perhaps .
I didn't ask for a palmares of Rogers and I understand why Tinkoff-Saxo fans want to defend their riders. But Rogers was a promising rider, but when he moved away from T-Mobile his "talent" suddenly completely dissapeared. You've listed a bunch of anonymous results in minor races.
His reults lately have been strange too. When Contador crashes out and Rogers isn't in the GC how come he still rides in top 20 in recent mountain stages? It makes no sense, Why would he ride for secondary positions on every hard stage when he could sit back and restore energy? It looks like he isn't even riding full power while making it in before several favourites - because he had absolutely nothing to ride for in these stages. He just seems to have "too much stamina".
First of all, I'm not a Tinkoff-Saxo fan, so please drop the bullshit, and discuss with me like I'm on the same level as you.
If you take a look at his palmares you can clearly see where he has developped, how and when. So the fact that you are now deeply startled shows how little you have actually followed his career.
How is it strange that Alberto Contadors main helper suddenly gets top 20 in a mountain stage? Was it also a huge surprise that Froomes main helpers where able to do so? The riders helping the best GC hopes are in great shape. And if you seriously think that Rogers wouldn't have been around top 20 on the mountainstages if Contador was here you are not worth having a debate with - Seriously.
Ask to the question of WHY he does it, have you even got the slightest idea of what Tinkoff-Saxos tactics are now? Stagewins. And how do you get stagewins? Either you are there with the best, or you attack. Seeing as Majka and König could just bump away was clearly a factor of them being no threat, rather than the competition not being able to follow. If Majka didn't attack, then Roche did. If not Roche did, then Rogers did.
Todays stage had Rogers written all over it, if he managed to get in a breakaway. Hence it was easy money in the bank btw.
Too much stamina is a big word to throw at a rider who previously did top 10GC, and previously did consecutive well on mountainstages. Not only this year, but throughout his career.
BTW, which stages are the fuzz all about? Yesterday was a rest-day, so no big efforts there, stage 15 was a flat stage where he didn't even finish in the first group. So two days off for Rogers. Then he did 14th with riders such as Ion Izagirre and John Gadret. Not overly fantastic for a rider who should have ridden as Contadors main rider. And the day before that he was 16th with Chris Horner. That day, and the day after that he had to stay with the front in case the breakaway was going to be caught early, so he could make a jump for it instead.
Like I posted in my first post (In case you somehow felt the urge to actually read it, instead of just skimming past it, and believing it was merely a palmares list) Michael Rogers have/had 2 goals for this season, and 2 only. Be fit to help Rafal Majka at the Giro and Alberto Contador at the Tour. So he did.
I was surprised to see Rogers win the mountainstage that finished uphill in the Giro, but that stage was given to either him or his compatriot, so no biggie, and seeing as his compatriot was taken out of the equation by a spectator it was a gift, he took. Besides that he took those two stagewins that came with downhill finishes, after the GC had settled and no one was very eager to chase. It happens every year, and the fact that one is thinking it's suspicious when Rogers does it, and not some other random bloke, is simply put, not OK.
And just to put it out, I dislike Rogers as a rider. Very much so. My favorite riders are Rui Costa and Michal Kwiatkowski.
SotD wrote:
I was surprised to see Rogers win the mountainstage that finished uphill in the Giro, but that stage was given to either him or his compatriot, so no biggie, and seeing as his compatriot was taken out of the equation by a spectator it was a gift, he took.
6th overall for Ten Dam? Highly unlikely imo, I would say 7th AT BEST. I wouldnt be surprised either if Zubeldia catches him on the last TT and he ends 9th.
so... would Contador have won this Tour? hmmmm. 
The most iconic sequence for me in cycling was Mayo's soft pedalling style-attack at Alpe d' Huez along with Valv's Courchevel-stage. Those memories.... 
