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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 27-11-2024 23:19
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 16-07-2013 08:16
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This title was confusing: "Tour de France video: Froome on doping, winning on Mont Ventoux"
I thought the journalist threw away all caution and just simply said: Froome winning on doping 
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-...nt-ventoux |
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 16-07-2013 08:34
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Elton wrote:
chuftek wrote:
What happened with you cycling fans?!? 
Why can't you simply enjoy watching it like some years ago...
It's the greatest race, with the greatest riders in their best shape and you wonder if they achieve something great?!?!?!?
When their favourites got caught they said "Never again... well sort of, I mean he wasn't REALLY doped, he just signed for the wrong team and his doctors really made a convincing case. Anywho, if someone is too good then they must be doped, there are no other explanations at all even if there is."
I for one hope that he's clean, I hope all are clean.
When my favourite (Vinokourov) got caught, I swapped allegiance to Rasmussen. It took 1 day for him to get chucked out. So I started to look at things with a more inquisitive eye. It wasn't a very knowledgeable one (I was 12 or 13 at the time) but I slowly started to realise what was actually going on. I've never believed the excuses after the fact and now I find it hard to before. Once you've seen history repeat itself endlessly (and much more so for the older members on here) you stop automatically believing everyone is clean. Instead, you start to assess the situation. I hope they're all clean, sure, but I'd be an idiot to believe it. I don't like seeing sport made a mockery of.
This. As this Tour is my 19th in the row i am watching, i have seen all that famous dopers claiming all the stuff that we hear now and i am sick of it.
Since I was a kid I somehow acknowlegded the presence of doping in elite sport. The times where I really felt cheated was when a hero of mine, was thrown out and banned. But how could he ride so much slower on doping, than the absolute elite, claiming to be clean? So when Vino got banned in his prime, it was a shame. I saw it as a loss of the biggest entertainer and the biggest star in the peloton (07).
Its all hypocrism, whenever "they" (the corrupt organ) decided to "ban" somebody, put them in the "black book", and then holding their hands on others with certain influence . |
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 16-07-2013 08:35
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Ian Butler wrote:
This title was confusing: "Tour de France video: Froome on doping, winning on Mont Ventoux"
I thought the journalist threw away all caution and just simply said: Froome winning on doping
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-...nt-ventoux
Haha I did read it wrong too
The title has some eye-catching tags - definately on purpose  |
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 16-07-2013 08:42
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BTW wonder if Roland is performing lets say under level, due to the speculation of him being doped. With the perspective of him being afraid of getting caught - hence no/less dope this year? Look at Contador, ever since he got caught, he has been afraid to get back to his former level. By afraid - he is not heavy doping himself? Maybe getting micro-doses of EPO, but thats not enough when Froome is in contest.
Its a shame Froome is so dominating, I really like his openness and politeness. He seems as a nice and symphatic guy, just doped heavily |
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 16-07-2013 09:06
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Ybodonk wrote:
BTW wonder if Roland is performing lets say under level, due to the speculation of him being doped. With the perspective of him being afraid of getting caught - hence no/less dope this year?
I'd say he simply struggling to cope with a much stronger field than last year.
Ybodonk wrote:
Look at Contador, ever since he got caught, he has been afraid to get back to his former level. By afraid - he is not heavy doping himself? Maybe getting micro-doses of EPO, but thats not enough when Froome is in contest.
His weakness is related to age and natural decline, not cleanliness.
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 16-07-2013 09:27
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
Ybodonk wrote:
BTW wonder if Roland is performing lets say under level, due to the speculation of him being doped. With the perspective of him being afraid of getting caught - hence no/less dope this year?
I'd say he simply struggling to cope with a much stronger field than last year.
Ybodonk wrote:
Look at Contador, ever since he got caught, he has been afraid to get back to his former level. By afraid - he is not heavy doping himself? Maybe getting micro-doses of EPO, but thats not enough when Froome is in contest.
His weakness is related to age and natural decline, not cleanliness.
I cant agree Pellizotti.
The field this year is truely way stronger than last year. However TDF 2011, he wear leading the peloton through several mountains for Voeckler. And still he was able to sit with the best. When he won on Alpe D'Huez, he was setting the pace on the whole last mountain, attacking on the descent with S.S. And beating him and Contador fair and square. 2011 had a similar strong field as this year.
Contador is only 30 years old, he should be in his prime now and the next 3 years. I am not buying it. Ever since he got caught and then was banned. He has not been the same. He has done similar performances (Times, Watts etc) as Froome. From what the maths and statistics has provided, Contadors numbers in this TDF, is human achieveable cleanly. But earlier he was defitanely heavily doped. Remembering TDF 07 and the years that came..' |
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 16-07-2013 09:29
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Contador may have doped, but he appeared young at his best. So he declines earlier. Same thing will happen with Quintana. |
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| kubys |
Posted on 16-07-2013 09:35
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It will be interesting to see Froome stripped of the title post-TdF, which will be given to Contador (Yeah I know, Mollema's still there). It can be quite paradox satisfaction for Alberto.
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 16-07-2013 09:45
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Miguel98 wrote:
Contador may have doped, but he appeared young at his best. So he declines earlier. Same thing will happen with Quintana.
Miguel, I am a huge Contador fan. May? He was doped thats a fact, since he has that lame doping sentence. However Michael Rasmussen which has told the everything to Anti-Doping-Denmark, explained how heavily he was doped, how it took place, that it was not a difficult task etc.
Contador matched him, and they have some insane sprinting against each other up through the mountains, so Contador was obviously doped those years. No reasong to be blind, just look at his climbing times, he's ITT's (similar to what Froome performes now) and he's watt estimations. |
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 16-07-2013 09:48
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kubys wrote:
It will be interesting to see Froome stripped of the title post-TdF, which will be given to Contador (Yeah I know, Mollema's still there). It can be quite paradox satisfaction for Alberto.
Mollema will crack, Ten Dam is more constant (proven over years). And Mollema did really look like he was going to blow every minute on Ventoux.
So yes Contador will get 2nd. I have thought about the scenario too, given Contadors nature, I think he will not count a paper-victory as a real victory. Furthermore he is a born attacker, since Froomes pace has been so invincible, Contador does not feel he has done nor achieved anything in this Tour (yet).
He needs to attack, and win by aggressiveness. A paper-victory multiplied with defensive riding, is not something he ever would be proud of. He still considers the 2010 as his victory, not Schlecks
Edited by Ybodonk on 16-07-2013 09:49
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 16-07-2013 10:05
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Ybodonk wrote:
Contador is only 30 years old, he should be in his prime now and the next 3 years. I am not buying it.
There's no such thing as a specific age where every single rider is at their best. It's individual.
Some peak early and become stars in their low 20s (Contador, Sagan, Schleck). However, this also means that they'll start declining early. Some even before they turn 30.
Meanwhile, those who hit their prime late can still get results at 35 (Purito, Petacchi).
I don't have enough knowledge in the physical phenomenons causing this to give a more scientific explanation. There are others who explain it better than I do.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 16-07-2013 11:42
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Rolland is struggling with two things : they've been warned (at Europcar) and especially him about their corticoids (ab)use, and the level of the leaders (say the 15 strongest guys) was rather natural or normal in 2010-2011-2012, but it looks like it's strongly increasing again this year.
As fro Contador, there may be age, there may be time to recover from his suspension (although it's been about one year he's started racing again), but I'd say there's mostly the bio-passport. It's harder to cheat nowadays, so his performances have decreased by 5 or 10 %. |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 16-07-2013 11:50
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Aquarius wrote:
As fro Contador, there may be age, there may be time to recover from his suspension (although it's been about one year he's started racing again), but I'd say there's mostly the bio-passport. It's harder to cheat nowadays, so his performances have decreased by 5 or 10 %.
I disagree. Although I do believe he's cleaner than he used to be, mostly due to Ashenden calling him out for his biopassport values and the loss of MartÃ, I don't think the BP is the main reason for Contador's decline. After all, he was destroying the field in 2009 and 2011 (Giro), well into the BP era.
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| devilswim818 |
Posted on 16-07-2013 12:21
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I really like Froome and i hope that he is clean but of course his ride to the Mont Ventoux was nearly impossible.
But why he and his team are so sure that they are working "clean". They want to give everything they have to WADA and i think could be clean but what is with his bike.? Nobody is talking about that.
Do you remember the engine in Cancellaras Bike.? Look at this Video and go to 5.35min https://www.youtub...Nd13ARuvVE
The Attack of Cancellara looks exactly like the attack of Froome. And now look at this Video and on the right hand of Froome https://www.youtub...hXx-wNEXeg
The right hand is always on the gears and after the Corner he stopps his attack and his hand is not at the gears anymore.
And Contador was always one of the quickest riders when he attacks and he had no chance like Boonen.
I know that the bikes getting checked before the race but there is always a possibility to invent a technologie.
I think we have to think about that and at the moment, nobody is thinking in this direction...
Edited by devilswim818 on 16-07-2013 12:25
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| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 16-07-2013 12:54
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If you mean Froomes right hand going from the stem to the outside of the handle, then that due to him attacking. You need an incredibly firm and stable grip on the handlebars to be able to put that much power through the pedals, especially when down in the saddle. |
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 16-07-2013 13:14
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Aquarius wrote:
Rolland is struggling with two things : they've been warned (at Europcar) and especially him about their corticoids (ab)use, and the level of the leaders (say the 15 strongest guys) was rather natural or normal in 2010-2011-2012, but it looks like it's strongly increasing again this year.
As fro Contador, there may be age, there may be time to recover from his suspension (although it's been about one year he's started racing again), but I'd say there's mostly the bio-passport. It's harder to cheat nowadays, so his performances have decreased by 5 or 10 %.
I think you are saying the same as me, just a bit more articulated
- Nice to know the english name for the drug - corticoids. Which Rabobank did abuse in the 90's and 00's.
So what we agree on here, is Rolland struggling due to hos healt test before the Tour, indicating abuse and presence of doping. He is weaker for sure, and as I argued earlier, he was very strong in an equally strong field in 2011. He is probably afraid of getting caught too.
As for Contador, i dont really think either he can use the suspension as a excuse. Look at Valverde it took him the whole season and then back at normal level in the Vuelta.
Can you guys provide some more details about Contadors BP? I dont recall reading anything about him and his blood values. Was there a(b)normallies?
And yes performance defitanely 5-10 % decreased, due to lower levels of dope |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 16-07-2013 13:15
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Contador was suspended for only 7 months, don't think that the months out of racing still have any effect on him now
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| issoisso |
Posted on 16-07-2013 13:55
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
Ybodonk wrote:
Contador is only 30 years old, he should be in his prime now and the next 3 years. I am not buying it.
There's no such thing as a specific age where every single rider is at their best. It's individual.
Some peak early and become stars in their low 20s (Contador, Sagan, Schleck). However, this also means that they'll start declining early. Some even before they turn 30.
Meanwhile, those who hit their prime late can still get results at 35 (Purito, Petacchi).
I don't have enough knowledge in the physical phenomenons causing this to give a more scientific explanation. There are others who explain it better than I do.
This. Contador was winning big at 20, there's no way he could be at peak at age 30 still. He improved every year until 2009, then became worse every year since
Edited by issoisso on 16-07-2013 13:56
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| issoisso |
Posted on 16-07-2013 13:59
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Also, in nearly all sports recent statistical analysis shows that results peak way earlier than most people think they do. At age 27 usually. Moneyball has a chapter about this. I'll bet anything that cycling is the same.
Does anybody have any such statistics (results by age) for cycling?
Edited by issoisso on 16-07-2013 14:00
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 16-07-2013 14:45
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issoisso wrote:
Pellizotti2 wrote:
Ybodonk wrote:
Contador is only 30 years old, he should be in his prime now and the next 3 years. I am not buying it.
There's no such thing as a specific age where every single rider is at their best. It's individual.
Some peak early and become stars in their low 20s (Contador, Sagan, Schleck). However, this also means that they'll start declining early. Some even before they turn 30.
Meanwhile, those who hit their prime late can still get results at 35 (Purito, Petacchi).
I don't have enough knowledge in the physical phenomenons causing this to give a more scientific explanation. There are others who explain it better than I do.
This. Contador was winning big at 20, there's no way he could be at peak at age 30 still. He improved every year until 2009, then became worse every year since
Sorry I cant agree here. With your knowlegde and insight in cycling, the age explanation is a cheap one - especially in a sport like cycling and long distance running. History of endurance sport is a lot the elite are competing between 30's - 40's. All the legends in cycling did compete atleast into the middle of the 30's
Contador in 2010 was at the same level as 2009, and he was equally doped. It is not a natural explanation. Contador will win TDF again.
I predict, if Froome and Sky continue these performances, Contador will get enough of his mediocre riding, and will "marginal gain" his way back to the top  |
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