dark_x2012 wrote:
Contador is a beast. Much better thanlast year. I quite liked how Quintana was being gained with every metre.
I'm not quite sure how winning a stage at Tirreno (admittedly I haven't seen it yet) and coming 2nd at the Volta ao Algarve qualifies him as a 'beast' quite yet. Besides, no matter how good he is, he's not getting past Froome at Le Tour.
Don't exclude that yet! Contador had a very bad 2013 season where he only took a stage at the Tour de San Luis, today he beated the best climbers in the world except Froome and Nibali so he still has a chance of winning the tour and he is atleast showing that we should still consider him a GC favourite
The best climbers in the world? Let's see... Scarponi (again, a poor 2013, and will struggle to win the Giro), Porte (still in Sky train mode- rolling along, following but never attacking - and persistently looking as if he's on the back foot), Kiserlovski (GC, anyone...) Kreuziger (teammate, so he doesn't really count), Kwiatkowski (not winning anything anytime soon), Rodriguez (not up to strength), and maybe a lacklustre Uran. Where are the Martins(a Brit, so I had to put that in)? The Valverdes? The on form Evanses and Van Garterens? Wiggins? Whoopdee-doo, Contador beat Quintana. At this stage, it means nothing.
If you mean Dan Martin he is registered as Irish and therefore is such.
*Van Garderen
Yes, but he was born in Birmingham, therefore our press have to hang onto his successes like he's a cuddly toy, just in case Sky are done.
Really?? Wiggins, Evans, Valverde, Martin? You call that great climbers? Maybe Valverde yes but the rest not anymore. The only riders who are going to show their colours this year are Froome, Quintana, Rodriguez as always and Contador. So he beat two and probably would've beaten Froom today aswel.
OK, so Evans is past it, Wiggins is by far and away the 2nd best time-triallist in the world and Martin's future is winning the Triple Crown (eventually).
But even so, I haven't quite scratched the surface. Betancur? Schlecks (before you diss me, Frank's doing alright at Paris-Nice)? Costa(increasingly showing perks of a GC contender, if he can stop finishing 2nd)? Mollema(alright at Tour)?
Edited by weirdskyfan64 on 16-03-2014 07:19
Disclaimer- Most of my posts are me thinking aloud. And most of what I think is rubbish.
Winner of a FIFA Prediction Fair Play Award (a phrase becoming increasingly ironic) "... Because he (me) has a sound tactical mind in general..." jandal7, at 9:30 am GMT on 12th May 2016
dark_x2012 wrote:
Contador is a beast. Much better thanlast year. I quite liked how Quintana was being gained with every metre.
I'm not quite sure how winning a stage at Tirreno (admittedly I haven't seen it yet) and coming 2nd at the Volta ao Algarve qualifies him as a 'beast' quite yet. Besides, no matter how good he is, he's not getting past Froome at Le Tour.
Don't exclude that yet! Contador had a very bad 2013 season where he only took a stage at the Tour de San Luis, today he beated the best climbers in the world except Froome and Nibali so he still has a chance of winning the tour and he is atleast showing that we should still consider him a GC favourite
The best climbers in the world? Let's see... Scarponi (again, a poor 2013, and will struggle to win the Giro), Porte (still in Sky train mode- rolling along, following but never attacking - and persistently looking as if he's on the back foot), Kiserlovski (GC, anyone...) Kreuziger (teammate, so he doesn't really count), Kwiatkowski (not winning anything anytime soon), Rodriguez (not up to strength), and maybe a lacklustre Uran. Where are the Martins(a Brit, so I had to put that in)? The Valverdes? The on form Evanses and Van Garterens? Wiggins? Whoopdee-doo, Contador beat Quintana. At this stage, it means nothing.
If you mean Dan Martin he is registered as Irish and therefore is such.
*Van Garderen
Yes, but he was born in Birmingham, therefore our press have to hang onto his successes like he's a cuddly toy, just in case Sky are done.
Really?? Wiggins, Evans, Valverde, Martin? You call that great climbers? Maybe Valverde yes but the rest not anymore. The only riders who are going to show their colours this year are Froome, Quintana, Rodriguez as always and Contador. So he beat two and probably would've beaten Froom today aswel.
OK, so Evans is past it, Wiggins is by far and away the 2nd best time-triallist in the world and Martin's future is winning the Triple Crown (eventually).
But even so, I haven't quite scratched the surface. Betancur? Schlecks (before you diss me, Frank's doing alright at Paris-Nice)? Costa(increasingly showing perks of a GC contender, if he can stop finishing 2nd)? Mollema(alright at Tour)?
You still forget that this year's Paris-Nice is a hilly race so all the above mentioned is just pointless in stages ending with long climbs. Contador won a mountain stage, whereas Betancur won a hilly one. Contador beat Quintana-one of the best climbers in the world in the mountain, unlike Betancur who won a hilly stage ending with a descent. There is mo place for comparison.
dark_x2012 wrote:
Contador is a beast. Much better thanlast year. I quite liked how Quintana was being gained with every metre.
I'm not quite sure how winning a stage at Tirreno (admittedly I haven't seen it yet) and coming 2nd at the Volta ao Algarve qualifies him as a 'beast' quite yet. Besides, no matter how good he is, he's not getting past Froome at Le Tour.
Don't exclude that yet! Contador had a very bad 2013 season where he only took a stage at the Tour de San Luis, today he beated the best climbers in the world except Froome and Nibali so he still has a chance of winning the tour and he is atleast showing that we should still consider him a GC favourite
The best climbers in the world? Let's see... Scarponi (again, a poor 2013, and will struggle to win the Giro), Porte (still in Sky train mode- rolling along, following but never attacking - and persistently looking as if he's on the back foot), Kiserlovski (GC, anyone...) Kreuziger (teammate, so he doesn't really count), Kwiatkowski (not winning anything anytime soon), Rodriguez (not up to strength), and maybe a lacklustre Uran. Where are the Martins(a Brit, so I had to put that in)? The Valverdes? The on form Evanses and Van Garterens? Wiggins? Whoopdee-doo, Contador beat Quintana. At this stage, it means nothing.
If you mean Dan Martin he is registered as Irish and therefore is such.
*Van Garderen
Yes, but he was born in Birmingham, therefore our press have to hang onto his successes like he's a cuddly toy, just in case Sky are done.
Really?? Wiggins, Evans, Valverde, Martin? You call that great climbers? Maybe Valverde yes but the rest not anymore. The only riders who are going to show their colours this year are Froome, Quintana, Rodriguez as always and Contador. So he beat two and probably would've beaten Froom today aswel.
OK, so Evans is past it, Wiggins is by far and away the 2nd best time-triallist in the world and Martin's future is winning the Triple Crown (eventually).
But even so, I haven't quite scratched the surface. Betancur? Schlecks (before you diss me, Frank's doing alright at Paris-Nice)? Costa(increasingly showing perks of a GC contender, if he can stop finishing 2nd)? Mollema(alright at Tour)?
You still forget that this year's Paris-Nice is a hilly race so all the above mentioned is just pointless in stages ending with long climbs. Contador won a mountain stage, whereas Betancur won a hilly one. Contador beat Quintana-one of the best climbers in the world in the mountain, unlike Betancur who won a hilly stage ending with a descent. There is mo place for comparison.
I'm not comparing Contador with Betancur at Paris-Nice- I'm comparing him with Betancur at the Giro last year, one of the hardest in recent memory. It was hard because it was a mountainous race.
Disclaimer- Most of my posts are me thinking aloud. And most of what I think is rubbish.
Winner of a FIFA Prediction Fair Play Award (a phrase becoming increasingly ironic) "... Because he (me) has a sound tactical mind in general..." jandal7, at 9:30 am GMT on 12th May 2016
Hey guys there are better ways to post other than adding quote on top of quote on top of quote so settle down
On Contador, yes he was impressive but he did set out to make a statement early in the season so I would be cautions on his Tour ambitions, I personally don't think he will win the Tour, he might podium but unless Froome crashes out nobody is beating him. Quintana is clearly building his form and will get better and Porte doesn't have that explosive kick. The rest can be explained as either past it (Evans) don't have it (Van Garderen) or just aren't real climbers.
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On my first post I just said that he was much better than last year when he couldn't place a normal attack! So that's why I'm happy that he could be better than last year's Tour and try to be a challenge for Froome. I'didn't say he was going to beat him for sure...
dark_x2012 wrote:
Contador is a beast. Much better thanlast year. I quite liked how Quintana was being gained with every metre.
I'm not quite sure how winning a stage at Tirreno (admittedly I haven't seen it yet) and coming 2nd at the Volta ao Algarve qualifies him as a 'beast' quite yet. Besides, no matter how good he is, he's not getting past Froome at Le Tour.
Don't exclude that yet! Contador had a very bad 2013 season where he only took a stage at the Tour de San Luis, today he beated the best climbers in the world except Froome and Nibali so he still has a chance of winning the tour and he is atleast showing that we should still consider him a GC favourite
The best climbers in the world? Let's see... Scarponi (again, a poor 2013, and will struggle to win the Giro), Porte (still in Sky train mode- rolling along, following but never attacking - and persistently looking as if he's on the back foot), Kiserlovski (GC, anyone...) Kreuziger (teammate, so he doesn't really count), Kwiatkowski (not winning anything anytime soon), Rodriguez (not up to strength), and maybe a lacklustre Uran. Where are the Martins(a Brit, so I had to put that in)? The Valverdes? The on form Evanses and Van Garterens? Wiggins? Whoopdee-doo, Contador beat Quintana. At this stage, it means nothing.
If you mean Dan Martin he is registered as Irish and therefore is such.
*Van Garderen
Yes, but he was born in Birmingham, therefore our press have to hang onto his successes like he's a cuddly toy, just in case Sky are done.
Really?? Wiggins, Evans, Valverde, Martin? You call that great climbers? Maybe Valverde yes but the rest not anymore. The only riders who are going to show their colours this year are Froome, Quintana, Rodriguez as always and Contador. So he beat two and probably would've beaten Froom today aswel.
OK, so Evans is past it, Wiggins is by far and away the 2nd best time-triallist in the world and Martin's future is winning the Triple Crown (eventually).
But even so, I haven't quite scratched the surface. Betancur? Schlecks (before you diss me, Frank's doing alright at Paris-Nice)? Costa(increasingly showing perks of a GC contender, if he can stop finishing 2nd)? Mollema(alright at Tour)?
You still forget that this year's Paris-Nice is a hilly race so all the above mentioned is just pointless in stages ending with long climbs. Contador won a mountain stage, whereas Betancur won a hilly one. Contador beat Quintana-one of the best climbers in the world in the mountain, unlike Betancur who won a hilly stage ending with a descent. There is mo place for comparison.
I'm not comparing Contador with Betancur at Paris-Nice- I'm comparing him with Betancur at the Giro last year, one of the hardest in recent memory. It was hard because it was a mountainous race.
You can't compare two riders in different time and form when you want to make guesses for what the season's gonna be. There are many proofs:the Schleck brothers 2011-2012, Van Garderen 2012-2013, Pinot 2012-early and mid 2013, Contador late 2012-whole 2013.
These are all riders who were in great shape and had great skills in the first season and then done nothing or almost nothing the next one. And now you see him win again. At least in psychological aspect this is a great victory for him.
dark_x2012 wrote:
You can't compare two riders in different time and form when you want to make guesses for what the season's gonna be. There are many proofs:the Schleck brothers 2011-2012, Van Garderen 2012-2013, Pinot 2012-early and mid 2013, Contador late 2012-whole 2013.
These are all riders who were in great shape and had great skills in the first season and then done nothing or almost nothing the next one. And now you see him win again. At least in psychological aspect this is a great victory for him.
Maybe, but this proves my point that what Contador does at Tirreno could have no bearing on his form at Le Tour.
Disclaimer- Most of my posts are me thinking aloud. And most of what I think is rubbish.
Winner of a FIFA Prediction Fair Play Award (a phrase becoming increasingly ironic) "... Because he (me) has a sound tactical mind in general..." jandal7, at 9:30 am GMT on 12th May 2016
weirdskyfan64 wrote:
I'm not comparing Contador with Betancur at Paris-Nice- I'm comparing him with Betancur at the Giro last year, one of the hardest in recent memory. It was hard because it was a mountainous race.
The Giro that had it's biggest mountain stage cancelled, and two of the other big mountain stages with all climbs except the finish removed? Taking this into account, I think the Giros 2012, 2011, and 2010 were much harder.
On Contador, yes he was impressive but he did set out to make a statement early in the season so I would be cautions on his Tour ambitions, I personally don't think he will win the Tour, he might podium but unless Froome crashes out nobody is beating him. Quintana is clearly building his form and will get better and Porte doesn't have that explosive kick. The rest can be explained as either past it (Evans) don't have it (Van Garderen) or just aren't real climbers.
First off, nice new avatar strydz. A bit of a fan by you Hells 500 guys by now haha
About Contador: Wasn't it the other way around? I remember him talking throughout the winter that he wanted a later season start and to ride with fewer races but to cmpete on a higher level. He'll be riding Tour and Vuelta after all.
It's natural that when you get older you have to restrict yourself. With two victories so far, it looks like his schedule is working for him again. Not like it did last year, which was basically in terms of wins the worst year since 2003 for him.
Also, Quintana has won the Tour San Luis. It's not like he recovers from an injury or so. Quintana certainly has a good overall fitness this year, and his season goal is the Giro. Shouldn't he be theoretically farther into his training?
However, yeah. The competition wern`t pure climbers but people have been talking that it's the best line-up for quite some time. In terms of a week-long stage racing, not the best lin-e-up for a Grand Tour obviously. He had additionally Kreuziger with him, so Contador didn't have to do anything on a apparently very windy climb. But mind you, that's still the competition he'll face in a Grand Tour, give or take Evans. I'm rather sure he would have beat Nibali yesterday as well, who is making fruitless attacks all over Paris-Nice right now. Froome probably not, but I don't care for Froome at all.
In any case, to me it looks like Old Contador might be back and is here to stay. He's dancing on the pedals reminded me much of the Giro 2011 (hopefully without the dope). But rather than winning by sheer strength and power, he won it in a clever way.
EDIT: Oh yeah there was also Horner... but when even the commetators never mention him, everybody forgets him. He's really just that much of a forgettable person. (I think Horner himself is comlaining about that rather a lot at T-A?)
He's a real climber (although his focus is of course the Vuelta) but coming in 9th surely shows that his form's not too far off.
Edited by Shonak on 16-03-2014 09:31
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
Okay, now i clearly dissagree with a few things you posted there about Martin skyfan. To start with, he's not British, he's Irish. He rides for Ireland, he's got Irish parents. Nothing to argue there.
And triple crown? Really? No offence, but Martin just doesn't have the recovery to even win the Giro-Tour double, and neither the time-trialling nor the consistent climbing to win even one of those, it seems. Maybe he can win the Ardennes Triple at some point, but Triple Crown, no way.
That's sad news. Less competition and this means Contador has even bigger chances for GC win since Porte was the only GC contender, who is a better TT-list than him(I expect Kwiatkowski to loose a lot today as he struggled yesterday!).
In any case, to me it looks like Old Contador might be back and is here to stay. He's dancing on the pedals reminded me much of the Giro 2011 (hopefully without the dope).
Just for the record: Contador was not tested postive in the Giro of 2011.
His performance looked impressive, but basically the competition was poor (Gadred finishing 3rd/4th). In terms of watts/kg he was e.g. much stronger in the Tour 2009.
So yea, his performance in the Giro 2011 is suspicious, but not more suspicious than other strong performances of that time like e.g. Menchov in the Giro 2009 or Nibali in the Vuelta 2010.
Officially Contador is not the winner of the Giro 2011 but he kind of still is looking at the facts.
Dippofix wrote:
Okay, now i clearly dissagree with a few things you posted there about Martin skyfan. To start with, he's not British, he's Irish. He rides for Ireland, he's got Irish parents. Nothing to argue there.
And triple crown? Really? No offence, but Martin just doesn't have the recovery to even win the Giro-Tour double, and neither the time-trialling nor the consistent climbing to win even one of those, it seems. Maybe he can win the Ardennes Triple at some point, but Triple Crown, no way.
Oops. Of course he can't win the Triple Crown - I meant the Ardennes Triple. And I recognise he's Irish, but the press, especially ITV, make a big song and dance about him because he was born in Birmingham.
Disclaimer- Most of my posts are me thinking aloud. And most of what I think is rubbish.
Winner of a FIFA Prediction Fair Play Award (a phrase becoming increasingly ironic) "... Because he (me) has a sound tactical mind in general..." jandal7, at 9:30 am GMT on 12th May 2016
1st Vuelta uhm Horner?
Less competition and this means Contador has even bigger chances for GC win since Porte was the only GC contender, who is a better TT-list than him(I expect Kwiatkowski to loose a lot today as he struggled yesterday!).
