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Post Danmark Rundt Discussion
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 22-03-2021 06:53
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3367
Joined: 20-04-2020
PCM$: 425.00
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Sprints are indeed really broken on this game, so I try not to be too disappointed by the result(s). Still not happy with a tenth place for Manarelli  Instead of sending a guy like Quicibal (or anyone) in the break for the KoM, the team decide to help even if Manarelli isn't a top sprinter, which he gladly illustrated in the first two stages.
I like how Seboka is distancing himself in order to give the competition a chance during the time trial 
Stage three will be very important for the GC as Abhi said, so I hope the stage is decided in a bunch sprint and Sterbini can hold on to the first peloton.
Congratz for the yellow jersey and constant sprints Abhi (and lief), and thank you for the report Marco!
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| Shonak |
Posted on 22-03-2021 06:59
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Rather annoying how Strava did work on both stages, especially on the first and ends up with nothing to do rather odd sprint AI and physics. Congratz to the winners and thanks for the reports!
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 22:44
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 22-03-2021 20:26
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3367
Joined: 20-04-2020
PCM$: 425.00
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Wow, great stuff by Sterbini to hold on to the peloton. Hopefully he can keep on surprising me in a positive way with a good time trial and GC On one hand this could have been some "easy" KoM-points, on the other hand I like how the team took the responsibility to chase the escapees, thinking about their GC rider. Makes me wonder whether they have been chasing the past couple of days because of that instead of the sprint for Manarelli. Petrovski scoring a cheeky point with a seventh place won't do us any harm either I guess. Congratulations to Gjensidge on the win, Eiking definitely deserves it with the attacking spirit he has shown this season!
Thanks for the report again, Marco! Admit it, you also didn't expect Bru to hold on in the peloton 
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| Marcovdw |
Posted on 22-03-2021 20:32
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7593
Joined: 04-07-2012
PCM$: 15345.00
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Nemolito wrote:
Thanks for the report again, Marco! Admit it, you also didn't expect Bru to hold on in the peloton
Had to triple-check that, couldn't believe my eyes
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 22-03-2021 20:35
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4669
Joined: 29-09-2018
PCM$: 185.00
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Completely pathetic race once again. No attacks, no stage result, despite having a great attacker with us - a stage to forget. The only slightly positive note is that Basso might have a shot at GC points, but it will definitely be yet another disappointing race for us point-wise.
Thanks for the report, and congrats to Gjensidige!
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 22-03-2021 21:14
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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Well, 54 mtn/63 hill Quaade surviving was certainly not the result I expected even on an unselective day, but I'll definitely take it. If he can manage to put up a TT worthy of his stats (which might be a big ask), we could potentially take home a very good GC position now. Since all the other TTer's also survived though, it will be difficult.
Pretty shocked to see AKA apparently found his climbing legs too to finish in the front group and even pace. Apparently his stats have been inverted. That effort is certainly not going to help him do well in the sprint tomorrow. But he probably wasn't planning on taking part anyway.
Eislers managed to fulfill his role as a punchy sprinter quite well to take 4th, and JJ gets 6th, so some decent stage points on hand. I can't help but thinking that JJ would have fought it out for the win today if the team wasn't totally geared around Quaade. But if this leads to more GC scoring in the end, it will indeed have been the right call.
I'm assuming tomorrow is an off day now, and then we'll see what Quaade can do against his competition.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 23-03-2021 05:41
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11676
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PCM$: 1861.50
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Shame to lose the jersey but Eiking was really strong and Watson did well to finish 3rd. Dumoulin staying in the main group is an advantage too. With us currently 3rd and 4th in the GC and the possibility of Dumoulin challenging for the win on the final stage, it's looking quite good so far. Let's see how Stage 4 goes and if Boev still has some sprinting left in his legs after the massive effort today.
Congrats to hillis on the win and thanks for the report Marco
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| aidanvn13 |
Posted on 23-03-2021 09:14
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2797
Joined: 06-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Well, JvH isn't even participating in the sprints which kind of sucks. Didn't expect much but a little bit of effort would be great On top of that, nobody is interested in breakaways which baffles me.
Nothing to write home about. Maybe Kiflay could get a top 10 if he puts in a good TT.
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| Marcovdw |
Posted on 23-03-2021 20:04
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7593
Joined: 04-07-2012
PCM$: 15345.00
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PCM 18 and sprints is never going to be a happy marriage, is it?
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 23-03-2021 20:09
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World Champion
Posts: 11392
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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Lol bullshit Scully actually sprinting
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
2x  x2 |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 23-03-2021 20:09
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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15th, 4th, 11th.
I'm looking at the startlist and really trying to justify it. Any help?
Thanks for the report
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 23-03-2021 20:22
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4669
Joined: 29-09-2018
PCM$: 185.00
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Of course, I'm really happy with Scully's first win - rider number four to win something this year, which is already more than last season - but I join bbl asking:
What's wrong with AKA? As happy as I'm about many of Reinhardt's results (and increasingly also Scully), it's definitely game-breaking if the strongest sprinter simply doesn't manage to properly sprint.
Nonetheless, thanks for the report, but if despite winning the stage I feel bad, there's really something wrong...
And by the way, congrats Sauber for the KoM jersey, and TinxiaS (probably) for the green jersey.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 23-03-2021 20:28
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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Fabianski wrote:
Of course, I'm really happy with Scully's first win - rider number four to win something this year, which is already more than last season - but I join bbl asking:
What's wrong with AKA? As happy as I'm about many of Reinhardt's results (and increasingly also Scully), it's definitely game-breaking if the strongest sprinter simply doesn't manage to properly sprint.
Nonetheless, thanks for the report, but if despite winning the stage I feel bad, there's really something wrong...
And by the way, congrats Sauber for the KoM jersey, and TinxiaS (probably) for the green jersey.
Please don't feel bad for winning, that was not the intent of my ramblings. The game's mismanagement of my team is frustrating, but I don't mean to disparage the great managing you and the other winners have done. Scully winning here with his stats is a perfectly realistic outcome. He was a major favorite and that is because of your crafty team building.
It's certainly more frustrating for AKA to be beaten by several guys with sprint stats in the 60's, but even then, it's not the fault of their managers.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 23-03-2021 20:37
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4669
Joined: 29-09-2018
PCM$: 185.00
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It's not that I feel bad for winning; I know that Scully is a perfectly valid winner for this stage. But I feel bad for you investing tons of Euros in AKA just to be disappointed by him time and time again. Every sprinter has a one-off from time to time (sometimes even several in a row, like Reinhardt in Ireland - that wasn't funny, either), but AKA is just a huge letdown this year 
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 23-03-2021 21:07
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Team Manager
Posts: 6508
Joined: 14-09-2008
PCM$: 1090.00
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Huh, unexpected sign of life from the team here. Habtom with possibly his best result of the year (which is ... not great) and two men in the breakaway. I'll take it, especially considering the no-show up to this point.
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| TinxiaS |
Posted on 23-03-2021 21:20
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Domestique
Posts: 504
Joined: 17-08-2020
PCM$: 400.00
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Nice to see Luka Mezgec in a front again to get 2nd place and points for green.
I hope tomorrow my two-time trialist can hold up and get a nice result in GC.
Thanks for the report Marco and congrats on the win Fabianski.
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 23-03-2021 23:13
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 3262
Joined: 02-11-2010
PCM$: 300.00
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baseballlover312 wrote:
15th, 4th, 11th.
I'm looking at the startlist and really trying to justify it. Any help?
Thanks for the report
I didn't weigh in earlier because I wanted to test this theory before I advanced it, but not sure when I will get to that. I think Nemolito may have had a point earlier that the game is treating him like Rouler. My theory on that is that they built the AI to designated a rouleur leader so you get late attacks in races like Paris Tours and MSR. But the problem is it tends to be overpowered so you get huge numbers of attacks and the classic one day races tend to get ripped apart late in the race. Which is fine for a classic but they realized this was a problem in a stage race since it leads to GC riders losing time and since the peloton is weaker in sprint terms the attacks are likely to succeed a lot.
So instead of fixing the balance they turned off the rouler attacks in stage races (I don't think I have ever seen a rouleur attack in flat stage of a stage race). But they didn't turn off the Rouleur AI. So getting designated as a rouleur in a stage race is death - your team will work, you will be protected up front but you won't attack and you won't get priority sprint position because you aren't a sprinter. So they just sprint from whatever starting position they have behind the sprinters, which is usually decent so you get top 20's but too far back to win.
So all of that is somewhat informed speculation and could be completely wrong- the test would be to run the Denmark Start list in a classic and see how AKA behaves. Although I think the designation as a rouler might vary with a lot of other factors.
Man Game: McCormick Pro Cycling |
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| Bjartne |
Posted on 23-03-2021 23:16
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2907
Joined: 15-07-2007
PCM$: 300.00
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Great work by Miller to gain those bonus seconds and a 6th GC.
Now Koren also has a chance of a top 10GC. Come on guys! |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 23-03-2021 23:49
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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Ulrich Ulriksen wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
15th, 4th, 11th.
I'm looking at the startlist and really trying to justify it. Any help?
Thanks for the report
I didn't weigh in earlier because I wanted to test this theory before I advanced it, but not sure when I will get to that. I think Nemolito may have had a point earlier that the game is treating him like Rouler. My theory on that is that they built the AI to designated a rouleur leader so you get late attacks in races like Paris Tours and MSR. But the problem is it tends to be overpowered so you get huge numbers of attacks and the classic one day races tend to get ripped apart late in the race. Which is fine for a classic but they realized this was a problem in a stage race since it leads to GC riders losing time and since the peloton is weaker in sprint terms the attacks are likely to succeed a lot.
So instead of fixing the balance they turned off the rouler attacks in stage races (I don't think I have ever seen a rouleur attack in flat stage of a stage race). But they didn't turn off the Rouleur AI. So getting designated as a rouleur in a stage race is death - your team will work, you will be protected up front but you won't attack and you won't get priority sprint position because you aren't a sprinter. So they just sprint from whatever starting position they have behind the sprinters, which is usually decent so you get top 20's but too far back to win.
So all of that is somewhat informed speculation and could be completely wrong- the test would be to run the Denmark Start list in a classic and see how AKA behaves. Although I think the designation as a rouler might vary with a lot of other factors.
I can definitely see that being the way it works. It would add up with almost everything we've seen this year. The whole team backs off precisely when the sprint starts to form, which wouldn't make sense if they were working for a sprinter, but would make sense if they were working for a rouleur as if it was a classic.
But if it's true, I'm absolutely astounded by how stupid this game could possibly be. That's just a whole other level of poor game design. AKA has the best sprint stat of anyone in the race, is shown as the leader of my team, and according to the game's generated startlist, is the best rider in the race. If the game is deciding he must be a rouleur with 81 sprint on flat stages, it is a fundamentally broken game. No way around it.
It also means his high flat, which was supposed to be a big advantage in this engine, is actually holding him back. In which case, there's basically no way for me to fix him going forward. I can't reduce his stats. So he will just be useless.
It still seems weird it keeps happening to him specifically though. A guy like Evonik's Eislers has a similar profile (high flat/res, poor acc), and has had success in WT sprints this year, as have other similar riders. Maybe it's my team construction? Although I felt AKA had basically perfectly support going in.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 23-03-2021 23:57
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 3262
Joined: 02-11-2010
PCM$: 300.00
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Ulrich Ulriksen wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
15th, 4th, 11th.
I'm looking at the startlist and really trying to justify it. Any help?
Thanks for the report
I didn't weigh in earlier because I wanted to test this theory before I advanced it, but not sure when I will get to that. I think Nemolito may have had a point earlier that the game is treating him like Rouler. My theory on that is that they built the AI to designated a rouleur leader so you get late attacks in races like Paris Tours and MSR. But the problem is it tends to be overpowered so you get huge numbers of attacks and the classic one day races tend to get ripped apart late in the race. Which is fine for a classic but they realized this was a problem in a stage race since it leads to GC riders losing time and since the peloton is weaker in sprint terms the attacks are likely to succeed a lot.
So instead of fixing the balance they turned off the rouler attacks in stage races (I don't think I have ever seen a rouleur attack in flat stage of a stage race). But they didn't turn off the Rouleur AI. So getting designated as a rouleur in a stage race is death - your team will work, you will be protected up front but you won't attack and you won't get priority sprint position because you aren't a sprinter. So they just sprint from whatever starting position they have behind the sprinters, which is usually decent so you get top 20's but too far back to win.
So all of that is somewhat informed speculation and could be completely wrong- the test would be to run the Denmark Start list in a classic and see how AKA behaves. Although I think the designation as a rouler might vary with a lot of other factors.
I can definitely see that being the way it works. It would add up with almost everything we've seen this year. The whole team backs off precisely when the sprint starts to form, which wouldn't make sense if they were working for a sprinter, but would make sense if they were working for a rouleur as if it was a classic.
But if it's true, I'm absolutely astounded by how stupid this game could possibly be. That's just a whole other level of poor game design. AKA has the best sprint stat of anyone in the race, is shown as the leader of my team, and according to the game's generated startlist, is the best rider in the race. If the game is deciding he must be a rouleur with 81 sprint on flat stages, it is a fundamentally broken game. No way around it.
It also means his high flat, which was supposed to be a big advantage in this engine, is actually holding him back. In which case, there's basically no way for me to fix him going forward. I can't reduce his stats. So he will just be useless.
It still seems weird it keeps happening to him specifically though. A guy like Evonik's Eislers has a similar profile (high flat/res, poor acc), and has had success in WT sprints this year, as have other similar riders. Maybe it's my team construction? Although I felt AKA had basically perfectly support going in.
I think it was happening to Eislers in the Vuelta. It does seem to vary by race since I think there are races where AKA has worked more like a sprinter. It never happened to Holloway or Kemboi so I think maybe it is the low ACC that disqualifies him from being treated as a sprinter some of the time. Agree there is not much you can do, also don't think PCM20 fixes this.
Man Game: McCormick Pro Cycling |
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