I'm watching cycling about my whole life and there is defenatly something wrong with the ai when it comes to breakaways.
Some examples:
- I had races where 2 or 3 teams go sprinting to catch up the early breakaway. And not talking about a few riders, no, the whole team gets in front and starts on an effort 90+. It doesnt even look like a 'train' cause they are all on a line across the road. Realistic? Never seen before, not in a monument, grand or small tour, classic or championship. It feels like ai wants a rider of those specific teams in front and as long as there isn't one, full gass for the whole team im very happy with the fact that a peleton tries to avoid a breakaway but there needs to be some logic. I've seen races in real when I was thinking: why the hell would they not allow a breakaway for the first 2 hours? (Quickstep last spring in some classics) but they have there reasons.
- they way favourites act against eachother. When for ex. Gilbert and Van Avermaet are in front in RVV (and you are 1 of them) the other one stops riding. I had this before in many 1 day races. You come in front with 1 or a couple of favourites and they stop riding. I agree that there are some cases when this is logic. But when Gilbert and Van Avermaet are in front of a group with Sagan, Demare and Degenkolb, I would ride 9 out of 10. No i would ride 10 out of 10
Same with mountainstages in tdf or giro. I like playing with some underdogs, and when you're 8th in GC and try to follow an attack of someone for example 4th in GC. He stops riding. I'm like: dude, you can become leader.. whatever. 2 examples that the ai isnt that gold with breakaways as people might say here. The outcome at the end of the race may look realistic but I like to play x1 or x2 so for me the way they ride is important aswell. Guess it isnt easy to make such intelligent ai, but I understand the person that started this thread. It bothers me aswell
Sorry for some mistakes, i'm on my phone writing this
Well we all have to agree on something, it's impossible to make a 100% realistic AI, it's computers afterall.
Although there may happen some things that look illogical think that most racing does have an incredibly realistic feeling to it, and PCM18 has had a major step in that area. And as for those examples I understand the feeling, I have them myself and yeah it can be frustrating sometimes but think of it this way:
E1 - In the begining of the stage the AI considers certain riders shouldn't be allowed in the break, or riders of a certain team (or for example more than 1 rider from a team). BUT the most familiar is not letting for example over 7 riders in the break (I think until some versions ago, almost every breakaway were 7 riders..). It can be programed to have a limited number of riders in the breakaway and not let anyone (either you or any other team) have any rider escape. But I find that it rarely comes to that classic "ridiculous pointless chase".
E2 - The classics are very hard to replicate as well cause the game racing develops much quicker than irl, so the riders dont really have time to rest. What I mean is irl it's normal countless attacks by everyone in the classics, cause they also constantly freewheel and constantly recover from efforts. In the game it takes at least a couple of Kms to recover from a full-on attack, so it's impossible to have blurries of attacks (which means it can't replicate flandres racing that well).
Also it's impossible to take the human side. For example in a game situation, Dillier would've never worked in PR with Sagan. But irl a 2nd is already brilliant for Diller, but the game naturally can't replicate every human thought that a rider can have during a race.
Well.. I completely agree with you. There are things you say I didn't think about when transfering such a complex sport into a game. Most of the people in my life think cycling is pretty the same all the time and at the end, the fastest rider wins. But indeed, it isn't that simple. And I agree that they did a great job on AI so far!
You example of Dillier is a nice one. Also made me realise that Hayman was in an early breakaway aswell in Roubaix a few years ago, and he won.
I felt like I had to tell the things I said in my previous post. Hoping that they keep up the good work for pcm 2019 and on the other hand I'm curious how you guys handle these issues. Do you change your playstyle? Got any tips to prevent peleton or favourites from behaving like this. Maybe there are some stuff I can do to improve realism.
As for tips, hmm.. When it comes to breakaways sometimes I want a specific rider in the break but he starts the stage way too far back. In that case I have two options. Either try to get someone who starts close to the front in the break, sometimes it's better to do that (adaptation is crucial) or in case you really really want that specific rider than set the pace in front of the peloton for a while, try and not let riders get away until the specific one reaches the front (easy in flat, but in hill/mountain its better to opt with someone who starts near the front really).
Another thing that may help, really try and attack as early as possible, there are some advantages to it. And also, never fully commit in the early Kms, usually the AI always has that ~85% effort, whilst it does just follow the wheels (until pace goes down), in some specific cases the peloton is chasing moderately hard (75-80%), sometimes in that case it's best to just go in the wheel of the group until the group is caught and then try again, as those situations are normally hopeless
In the classics, well, it's a puzzle. (I play with 1,15 difficulty) But there isn't a formula to win them, and they are the hardest to win. It's about adaptation, taking opportunities and having luck. AI in classics is a bitch, so my tip is to try and usually get someone in the break as it can be useful later, and just try to seize every opportunity, plus being well positioned. Opportunities, be aware of the opponents, if they crash, if they're badly positioned/blocked, force the pace there. And in them try not to think long-term too much. What I mean is, if you have the strongest rider(or one of them) don't be afraid to push maximum in the climbs/cobbled climbs if you see favourites in a vulnerable position, be agressive and above all yeah adapt to race situations, have a good eye.
im very happy with the fact that a peleton tries to avoid a breakaway but there needs to be some logic. I've seen races in real when I was thinking: why the hell would they not allow a breakaway for the first 2 hours? (Quickstep last spring in some classics) but they have there reasons.
