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How stats works
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| mbtail |
Posted on 31-08-2017 13:37
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i'm glad they changed the hill/mount stat that hill only counts from 85 onwards instead of 70. Because last year guys like alaphillipe and kwiatowski were op. They could win GT because of the excellent hill stat and good mountain
This HIL/MOUN stat based on effort is a better system then the old system where they just looked if its hill stage or mountain stage.
But in my eyes they should put in a mix in function of the lengths of the mountains. Where everything up to like 2.5km should favour hill. And from 10km onwards favour mountain.
Even indipendant from effort. Because you can set a peleton at low speed up a mountain to save energy and then let hell brake loose at 4-5kms from top, so guys like kwiatowski/ alaphillipe / valverde / Dan martin can win everything. |
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| bah |
Posted on 01-09-2017 16:00
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mbtail wrote:Because you can set a peleton at low speed up a mountain to save energy and then let hell brake loose at 4-5kms from top, so guys like kwiatowski/ alaphillipe / valverde / Dan martin can win everything.
Just like real life
Catalunya stage 3. 3 big mountains.
They rode slow so Dan Martin and Valverde sprinted away in the last km |
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 04-09-2017 05:45
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So I was interested in the change in endurance, seems odd that the stat would only impact the later days in the race, since that is recovery.
So did a few tests, stamina definitely impacts one day races still, although potentially not very much. Used the 256km of boredom that was the Doha WC. Compared riders with 85, 75, 65 and 55 endurance with all the rest the same.
The green bar definitely is used up faster for the lower endurance riders, the difference is visible towards the end. This doesn't change performance until they use up the green bar at which point there is a significant degradation.
With the effort set at 80 which fully depletes the red and the yellow the 55 endurance riders depleted there green at 205 KM (50km from the end), the 65 at 225km and the 75 at 245 km. So every point is worth about 2 km extra. And once the green is used up the impact is significant, the 75 stamina riders lost over 3 minutes in the last 10km
However, if the race is at a slower pace the green is used more slowly and stamina will not have this effect. It made no difference when I ran the race at 50 effort as all riders had green left at the end. Also, this is with no drafting since all riders are on dot effort, that would also reduce the green bar use I would assume.
I don't think it impacts how fast the yellow or red is used up but would have to play with it more to be sure. But the more intense efforts the more green is used up the quicker stamina comes in to play. So if a rival rider has the same stats but weaker stamina it would be in your interest to make the race hard, assuming you can do that while protecting your leader. |
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| tellico |
Posted on 08-09-2017 17:27
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I lost something in translation or you messed up stamina and endurance. It is two different stats. I dont know, you are talking about stamina or endurance? |
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 10-09-2017 21:15
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Mabye both me being inconsistent and the translation, I should have used one or the other. But I it is not two stats - they generally mean the same thing - how well a rider does in longer races. I checked the english language translation uses "Stamina", but think I have seen endurance else where. |
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| tommyboy |
Posted on 10-09-2017 22:06
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Ulrich Ulriksen wrote:
Mabye both me being inconsistent and the translation, I should have used one or the other. But I it is not two stats - they generally mean the same thing - how well a rider does in longer races. I checked the english language translation uses "Stamina", but think I have seen endurance else where.
Is stamina and endurance the same thing?
The two words can be used interchangeably. They both mean "staying power." However, stamina is more often associated with athletic power, the ability to run long distances, for instance, while endurance is associated with the ability to withstand hardship or suffering. |
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| Time2Play |
Posted on 11-09-2017 00:43
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Another question: How do attacks work?
Is it like putting my rider on 99% dot?
Which stats are used?
For example if I attack at a 10% slope, will it use the mountain or the hill stat?
Or both?
When I play i normally only use dot to pace away at the end of the race.
My pro has 85 MO but only 74 hill. |
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 11-09-2017 01:52
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@tommyboy I agree with your point on the subtle difference in the specific meanings in the english language. In game terms I think they both are used to refer to the same statistic.
@time2play The broader question you ask are addressed in various threads, the beginning of this one is a good start. If you search on posts by Sobrano he has contributed to a number of good threads on how the stats work. Basically, I believe attacks will use ACC stat to try and create a gap quickly, going to 99 dot does not. But not sure I can tell you how it all plays together along with the hill/mountain stat. |
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| Time2Play |
Posted on 11-09-2017 19:57
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@Ullrich: thanks, but that doesn`t rlly answer my question. I wanna know how attacks work. I couldnt find anything about this in Sobranos posts. My pro has high mo, high acc and low hill. Should I attack or just free effort? Imo attacks consume too much red & yellow. |
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 12-09-2017 03:45
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Sorry, not sure I have more to help you if there wasn't an answer in Sobrano's posts. I don't think I have seen anything on how quickly different approaches reduce the red and yellow bars, which I think would help answer your question.
I think you are probably right on a long climb that dotting is more efficient. As an aside I have never been sure what the dot reflects except when used to position a rider in the peloton. Either you follow the pace, you set tempo or you attack, not sure what real life action dotting represents as an offensive strategy.
The answer to your question will also depend on the length and steepness of the climb and the stats of other riders. So not sure there is a single right answer for every situation. If Cyanide has balanced it right there shouldn't be. |
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| Time2Play |
Posted on 12-09-2017 07:43
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Yeah, a good start would be to know which stats an attack takes into account. I couldnt find anything about this on the official site. You could probably test with a high hill and a high mo rider. If noone knows the answer I might have to do it. |
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 12-09-2017 20:01
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Thatguyeveryonehates wrote:
below 2% slope FL is used
between 2% and 7% slope FL and the climbing stat are used
above 7% slope only the climbing stat is used
but which stat is the climbing stat?
that depends on effort %
1-84 effort MO
84-95 effort MO+HI (higher = more HI less MO)
96-99 effort HI
sobrano wrote:
I did several tests on stats:
END as someone already says is changed. END affect the green bar consumption as RES does for yellow bar.
RES: during my test i noticed that RES affect RED bar too, that means RES is an important value for sprints...
RES continue to affect the yellow bar as from 10 years
ACC: is a real acceleration as from four pcm editions. it not change so much between an ACC 84 and an ACC 65. I think this value is usefull only during a sprint.
Green BAR: it goes down based on bpm. In old editions the green bar starts to be burned from 144bpm. Now it burn for every bpm (more quickly as the bpm increase)
Yellow Bar: it start to be burned at 140bpm
Red Bar: it come down from 178bpm
If Yellow bar is empty then RedBar go down very fast as ur bmp are more than 140
Blue Bar: it seems to be a function of yellow bar, its behaviour is always the same...(maybe needed more tests)
So here would be my thought - ACC controls accelerations, so when you click the attack how quickly you get going is determined by ACC . You will then reach some max level, not sure what determines that but likely the relevant base stat for the terrain as described in the first post above. If we assume that an attack = 100% effort then in an attack on a slope >2%, it will always use hill. Which makes sense since the hill is meant to represent uphill sprinting. During all this you will chew into your green, yellow and red bar based on the resulting bpm noted in the second post above, at a rate impacted by your resistance. Once red and yellow are gone the attack stops.
As Sobrano notes the red bar is associated with sprinting in a sprint but not sure what impacts it in an attack.
So would agree there are a bunch of unknowns. But at least your HI, MO, ACC and RES are relevant to your question and FL/CO on flat terrain instead of HI/MO. Clearly TT, PRL REC and DH are not. STA will be relevant in a longer race if one rider runs out of the green bar but I don't think it would directly impact the difference between attacking and riding a hard tempo. Sprint has generally been documented only to impact sprinting (but not sure that is for certain). FTR has generally been viewed as impacting AI behavior rather than rider performance. And that covers all the choices.
So that is a long way of saying I think the relevant stats are fairly clear: HI/MO or FL/CO plus ACC and RES (maybe FTR and SPR playing a role but likely not). I think the question is how they interact with each other and the game. |
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| Time2Play |
Posted on 12-09-2017 21:43
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Thanks for your detailed post Ullrich.
Your result is pretty much what I suspected but it's so hard to find reliable informations about the game. Cyanide has always been pretty shy about telling how the game works, which is pretty annoying to be honest.
Hill stat being used 100% at an attack on a slope > 7% would make sense (logic) but who knows if an attack is playing by the same rules.
I guess if my pro has a crappy hill stat I shouldnt attack at all and just try to ride long efforts below 85% percents to make the race hard.
Edited by Time2Play on 13-09-2017 19:50
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| Einarsen |
Posted on 12-09-2017 22:58
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Hey people! I am new to this game and i was wondering if anyone know how to see a sprint from the side or with a photo finish camera? |
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 13-09-2017 02:40
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@Time2Play - I think Cyanide wants you to figure out the right way to play by playing not by reverse engineering the game formulas. I agree given you stats that is the right approach.
@Einarsen - you may want to make sure the thread topic is somehow related to your question before posting it, to increase the chance of an answer. That said you can view a sprint from the side by holding the center mouse button and moving the mouse to the left or right while on the default camera angle. At least that is what I do, if you press space during a race you can get a list of keyboard commands, they might support it as well. There is no automated photo finish, you can achieve the effect simply by pausing the game and moving the camera but that can be hard to do precisely as they cross the finish line. |
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| Netris |
Posted on 21-09-2017 17:01
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I have a question about stats and rdc. If my rider has, let's say 84 COB and has a great rdc which gives him +3 COB. Is his actual COB for the race 87 or is it hardcapped at 85 ? |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 21-09-2017 18:08
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Nope, it's still capped at 85. The actual matrix used to go up until 99 in PCM 14 so something like what you describe was possible, but it's not working quite like that anymore.
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| Netris |
Posted on 21-09-2017 19:07
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matt17br wrote:
Nope, it's still capped at 85. The actual matrix used to go up until 99 in PCM 14 so something like what you describe was possible, but it's not working quite like that anymore.
Alright. Thanks for the clarification. |
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| Champ_Armstrong |
Posted on 09-01-2018 09:37
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mbtail wrote:
i'm glad they changed the hill/mount stat that hill only counts from 85 onwards instead of 70. Because last year guys like alaphillipe and kwiatowski were op. They could win GT because of the excellent hill stat and good mountain
This HIL/MOUN stat based on effort is a better system then the old system where they just looked if its hill stage or mountain stage.
But in my eyes they should put in a mix in function of the lengths of the mountains. Where everything up to like 2.5km should favour hill. And from 10km onwards favour mountain.
Even indipendant from effort. Because you can set a peleton at low speed up a mountain to save energy and then let hell brake loose at 4-5kms from top, so guys like kwiatowski/ alaphillipe / valverde / Dan martin can win everything.
Just finished a test Giro and Kwiat finished 4th overall with 76 mo.
He was able to climb with the climbers on low pace but couldnt follow attacks directly. Think it is realistic somehow. He could do this irl if he wanted to. |
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| Champ_Armstrong |
Posted on 09-01-2018 14:15
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Btw doesn't acc count in mo/hill? |
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