Ollfardh wrote:
For people like me, Tour Down Under and stuff is fun, but the real cycling season starts this saturday with Omloop Het Nieuwsblad (1.HC).
That's the damn truth .
As a huge fan of cobbled classics I can't freaking wait for this.
My prediction:
1. Terpstra 2. Leukemans 3. GVA
Where is Styby in that prediction, i expect great year from him.
Etixx has incredible classics lineup, cant wait to see them in action. Real cycling begins.
Ollfardh wrote:
For people like me, Tour Down Under and stuff is fun, but the real cycling season starts this saturday with Omloop Het Nieuwsblad (1.HC).
That's the damn truth .
As a huge fan of cobbled classics I can't freaking wait for this.
My prediction:
1. Terpstra 2. Leukemans 3. GVA
Where is Styby in that prediction, i expect great year from him.
Etixx has incredible classics lineup, cant wait to see them in action. Real cycling begins.
Completely forgot about Stybar, I'm expecting to do well as well.
Most interesting part of the weekend is Wiggo. If he rides well and establishes himself as a legit PR favorite, then he takes on a new level historically. A top-level pursuit track rider moves to the road, spends years unable to get over hills and is only able to put up good results in flat TTs. Drops a lot of weight, takes fourth in the Tour and then wins it a few years later, then reverses and becomes a strong cobbles rider before returning to the track?
We've seen riders who were good at everything. We've seen riders who reinvented themselves. I don't think we've seen a rider distinctly reinvent themselves that many times. I think Wiggins is an asshole in a bad way (as opposed to Hinault, who is an asshole in a fantastic way), but I wouldn't be able to say anything bad about him if he pulled this off.
EDIT: Also, De Vlaeminck is a an asshole in the worst way. Just thought I'd add that in.
Edited by Deadpool on 24-02-2015 14:45
Ollfardh wrote:
If he wins Paris-Roubaix and breaks the hour record in a few months, he will be second to none but Eddy Merckx.
I don't quite think that. He certainly has a claim for top-15 all time, but I don't think any higher. His palmares don't compare to the likes of Hinault, Indurain, Moser, Antequil, and I think you'd be hard pressed to argue he has had a better career than Contador or Cancellara, as direct contemporaries.
Also, taking the hour record isn't enough. He needs to hold it against Martin or Cancellara. Rohan Dennis is a good rider, but is not the level of quality that should be holding the title.
Selwink wrote:
Well, given his statements about Oman Merckx is trying to be one as well I think
That's all political for the ASO, trying to blame the riders and not the race so as to not damage the credibility of race and the money that comes with its taking place.
Merckx isn't the nicest guy, but isn't at the level of any of those mentioned above.
Edited by Deadpool on 24-02-2015 14:51
Ollfardh wrote:
If he wins Paris-Roubaix and breaks the hour record in a few months, he will be second to none but Eddy Merckx.
I don't quite think that. He certainly has a claim for top-15 all time, but I don't think any higher. His palmares don't compare to the likes of Hinault, Indurain, Moser, Antequil, and I think you'd be hard pressed to argue he has had a better career than Contador or Cancellara, as direct contemporaries.
Also, taking the hour record isn't enough. He needs to hold it against Martin or Cancellara. Rohan Denis is a good rider, but is not the level of quality that should be holding the title.
Maybe not in wins, but in diversity of wins. Winning on the track, Tour de France, Paris-Roubaix, WC TT, Olympic Gold, and the hour record. That's pretty much everything there is to win except cyclocross. If he can make it, I'd easily rate him higher then for example Contador, who can only do stage races.
Ollfardh wrote:
If he wins Paris-Roubaix and breaks the hour record in a few months, he will be second to none but Eddy Merckx.
I don't quite think that. He certainly has a claim for top-15 all time, but I don't think any higher. His palmares don't compare to the likes of Hinault, Indurain, Moser, Antequil, and I think you'd be hard pressed to argue he has had a better career than Contador or Cancellara, as direct contemporaries.
Also, taking the hour record isn't enough. He needs to hold it against Martin or Cancellara. Rohan Denis is a good rider, but is not the level of quality that should be holding the title.
Maybe not in wins, but in diversity of wins. Winning on the track, Tour de France, Paris-Roubaix, WC TT, Olympic Gold, and the hour record. That's pretty much everything there is to win except cyclocross. If he can make it, I'd easily rate him higher then for example Contador, who can only do stage races.
True, but even on diversity he is comfortably behind Hinault, Kelly, Anquetil (spelled it right that time) and only comparable to the likes of Moser and Looy.
Ollfardh wrote:
If he wins Paris-Roubaix and breaks the hour record in a few months, he will be second to none but Eddy Merckx.
I don't quite think that. He certainly has a claim for top-15 all time, but I don't think any higher. His palmares don't compare to the likes of Hinault, Indurain, Moser, Antequil, and I think you'd be hard pressed to argue he has had a better career than Contador or Cancellara, as direct contemporaries.
Also, taking the hour record isn't enough. He needs to hold it against Martin or Cancellara. Rohan Denis is a good rider, but is not the level of quality that should be holding the title.
Maybe not in wins, but in diversity of wins. Winning on the track, Tour de France, Paris-Roubaix, WC TT, Olympic Gold, and the hour record. That's pretty much everything there is to win except cyclocross. If he can make it, I'd easily rate him higher then for example Contador, who can only do stage races.
True, but even on diversity he is comfortably behind Hinault, Kelly, Anquetil (spelled it right that time) and only comparable to the likes of Moser and Looy.
I guess you could say that, though Hinault doesn't have an olympic title or beat the hour record. I guess that comes down to rating quality or quantity. I'd definitely count Wiggins amongst the great names of cycling if he can pull it off
Ollfardh wrote:
I guess you could say that, though Hinault doesn't have an olympic title or beat the hour record. I guess that comes down to rating quality or quantity. I'd definitely count Wiggins amongst the great names of cycling if he can pull it off
Wiggins doesn't have a green or polka dot jersey from the Tour, wins at the Vuelta or Giro, a world RR championship, wins at all three Ardennes classics, Lombardia, or the Grand Prix des Nations (back when that meant a lot).
They aren't even remotely comparable. Hinault accomplished so much more over just as if not more broad a list of settings.
The thing that really boosts Wiggins, compared to Kelly/Hinault/Anquetil/Looy is that Wiggins is doing this in the era of specialization. No longer can riders contest MSR, then Roubaix, then LBL and then go to a GT and win and then the Worlds to top it off. Since Lemond you pick out one or two big goals.
The last man to win Roubaix and a GT GC was Kelly in 1986, pre-Lomond era changes. For Wiggins to win 6-Days, Olympic Track, Olympic ITT, World ITT, TDF GC, Roubaix and everything else he's done would be truely worthy of Legend status.
TheManxMissile wrote:
The thing that really boosts Wiggins, compared to Kelly/Hinault/Anquetil/Looy is that Wiggins is doing this in the era of specialization. No longer can riders contest MSR, then Roubaix, then LBL and then go to a GT and win and then the Worlds to top it off. Since Lemond you pick out one or two big goals.
The last man to win Roubaix and a GT GC was Kelly in 1986, pre-Lomond era changes. For Wiggins to win 6-Days, Olympic Track, Olympic ITT, World ITT, TDF GC, Roubaix and everything else he's done would be truely worthy of Legend status.
But...er... he has to win Roubaix first
My issue with this is that although teams are quick to pigeonhole riders into a certain role, and want them focused on it, I see no reason why this needs to be the case. When the likes of Andy Schleck are coming in the front group of a Tour stage that rides over a third of the PR route, it's not the specialization of the riders, its the choice by the teams on how they construct their season.
Is there any reason to believe a rider couldn't build into top form for two out of three of MSR, the cobbled monuments, and the Ardennes, then target one GT and the worlds and Lombardia all in one season? I don't see why not.
So I refuse to accept the "specialization" argument. When you're that big of a rider you can set your own schedule, or something close to it, and the decision not to ride a complete season is your own.
Ollfardh wrote:
I guess you could say that, though Hinault doesn't have an olympic title or beat the hour record. I guess that comes down to rating quality or quantity. I'd definitely count Wiggins amongst the great names of cycling if he can pull it off
Wiggins doesn't have a green or polka dot jersey from the Tour, wins at the Vuelta or Giro, a world RR championship, wins at all three Ardennes classics, Lombardia, or the Grand Prix des Nations (back when that meant a lot).
They aren't even remotely comparable. Hinault accomplished so much more over just as if not more broad a list of settings.
Well, Hinault lacks all the track titles Wiggins has. You could argue Hinault didn't care about them, but I consider it a part of cycling as well. It's like talking about Roger De Vlaeminck and ignoring all his cyclocross titles.
And FFS, I can't believe I'm actually defending Wiggins here
Wiggins just outrides his opponents with his pace and more pace and some winning pace... He's a very diverse rider based on his palmares but he himself isn't. Basically Time Trialing to Diversity.
Even if (and that's a mighty big IF) he wins Paris-Roubaix, he's still behind guys like Contador, Boonen and Cance in list of achievements.
Ollfardh wrote:
Maybe not in wins, but in diversity of wins. Winning on the track [...] WC TT, Olympic Gold, and the hour record.
Lol, "diversity"... that's basically just time trialing in different events, mate.
What I do admire about Wiggins is that he's excellent at setting goals and working to them. Once he spins his head around something, hardly anything can stop him. That's the pace I guess, like a freighter.
Edited by Shonak on 24-02-2015 19:16
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
Shonak wrote:
What I do admire about Wiggins is that he's excellent at setting goals and working to them. Once he spins his head around something, hardly anything can stop him. That's the pace I guess, like a freighter.
That's true. He does have a Wilt like habit of picking a goal and then just deciding he's dropping everything else to do it. By Wilt I mean Wilt Chamberlain, who is famous for just deciding he wanted to lead the league in assists one year, and did it, to the detriment of his team who just wanted the most dominant scorer of all time to score. Of course cycling, as a quasi-individual sport, allows for success that way. Wilt only won two titles, and the second one was with West.
I think part of the reason my interest has gone down slightly is that to watch cycling here is such a sacrifice. I have to wake up early, watch some 240p stream with audio that isn't synced to the video. As you get older you have way less time to do things like that.
Uhh, that sounds rough, holy crap. The Europeans that follows American sports at least dont have to put up with the bad quality (not mentioning the fact that it's WAAY harder to wake up early than to stay up late, at least for me).
I think part of the reason my interest has gone down slightly is that to watch cycling here is such a sacrifice. I have to wake up early, watch some 240p stream with audio that isn't synced to the video. As you get older you have way less time to do things like that.
Uhh, that sounds rough, holy crap. The Europeans that follows American sports at least dont have to put up with the bad quality (not mentioning the fact that it's WAAY harder to wake up early than to stay up late, at least for me).
Well I pay a significant amount of money to watch the NFL in good quality...
I think part of the reason my interest has gone down slightly is that to watch cycling here is such a sacrifice. I have to wake up early, watch some 240p stream with audio that isn't synced to the video. As you get older you have way less time to do things like that.
Uhh, that sounds rough, holy crap. The Europeans that follows American sports at least dont have to put up with the bad quality (not mentioning the fact that it's WAAY harder to wake up early than to stay up late, at least for me).
Well I pay a significant amount of money to watch the NFL in good quality...
But the Germans also have a fetish for not broadcasting certain events/sports...
Joke aside, I do also subscribe to LP (the NBA, even though they actually broadcast a game every single day in Denmark which I didnt know would happen), but rather that than some unsynchronised stream. Its not that much after all, 200 dollars for basically all the basketball you wanna watch and I cant imagine its that much more for the NFL equivalent for League Pass?
As usual Eurosport UK is just showing Kuurne and not Omloop, they did that last year so I'll be missing Omloop again and it's always the race of the two that I want to see.
I think part of the reason my interest has gone down slightly is that to watch cycling here is such a sacrifice. I have to wake up early, watch some 240p stream with audio that isn't synced to the video. As you get older you have way less time to do things like that.
Uhh, that sounds rough, holy crap. The Europeans that follows American sports at least dont have to put up with the bad quality (not mentioning the fact that it's WAAY harder to wake up early than to stay up late, at least for me).
Well I pay a significant amount of money to watch the NFL in good quality...
But the Germans also have a fetish for not broadcasting certain events/sports...
Joke aside, I do also subscribe to LP (the NBA, even though they actually broadcast a game every single day in Denmark which I didnt know would happen), but rather that than some unsynchronised stream. Its not that much after all, 200 dollars for basically all the basketball you wanna watch and I cant imagine its that much more for the NFL equivalent for League Pass?
Yeah about that amount on nfl.com indeed.
And we do broadcast a ridiculous amount of sports, just not many of the American ones. And even if we did, German commentary sounds weird then if you're used to the original.
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