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Other Races 2011
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| Zanci93 |
Posted on 16-10-2011 18:29
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kumazan wrote:
That's obviously a Tour of Beijing pic. Too many Chinese guys with Chinese flags to be in France, no? 
You never no, there are big chinese tourist groups around there |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 16-10-2011 18:41
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That'd make sense. The pic on eurosport.fr doesn't really make it possible to identify the audience. Must have been taken from China, as it's obviously the same helmet that on the pic shown on the previous page. |
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 16-10-2011 19:02
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To throw the cat among the pigeons, I enjoyed watching Lombardia yesterday...though can't help but notice that it was one of the most unbelievable results of a generally believable season. A cynic might even point out there were contracts on the line too....
When they were powering up that final climb couldn't see anyone but Martin winning it....but next thing you know Zaugg danced away from them all. |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 16-10-2011 19:09
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fenian_1234 wrote:
To throw the cat among the pigeons, I enjoyed watching Lombardia yesterday...though can't help but notice that it was one of the most unbelievable results of a generally believable season. A cynic might even point out there were contracts on the line too....
When they were powering up that final climb couldn't see anyone but Martin winning it....but next thing you know Zaugg danced away from them all.
Uh, what?
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| issoisso |
Posted on 16-10-2011 19:11
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Tour de France Champion
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kumazan wrote:
fenian_1234 wrote:
To throw the cat among the pigeons, I enjoyed watching Lombardia yesterday...though can't help but notice that it was one of the most unbelievable results of a generally believable season. A cynic might even point out there were contracts on the line too....
When they were powering up that final climb couldn't see anyone but Martin winning it....but next thing you know Zaugg danced away from them all.
Uh, what?
He's talking about clean cycling.
I have to agree, not that the peloton is clean, but that it's a lot cleaner.
The fact that most Tour contenders were slower on the climbs but Evans was at the same performance as every year, plays a big part in my belief
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| jph27 |
Posted on 16-10-2011 19:39
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issoisso wrote:
kumazan wrote:
fenian_1234 wrote:
To throw the cat among the pigeons, I enjoyed watching Lombardia yesterday...though can't help but notice that it was one of the most unbelievable results of a generally believable season. A cynic might even point out there were contracts on the line too....
When they were powering up that final climb couldn't see anyone but Martin winning it....but next thing you know Zaugg danced away from them all.
Uh, what?
He's talking about clean cycling.
I have to agree, not that the peloton is clean, but that it's a lot cleaner.
The fact that most Tour contenders were slower on the climbs but Evans was at the same performance as every year, plays a big part in my belief
Contador was also at a similar level to last year in the Giro though. That could be used as a counter. |
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| dienblad |
Posted on 16-10-2011 20:24
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Classics Specialist
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jph27 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
kumazan wrote:
fenian_1234 wrote:
To throw the cat among the pigeons, I enjoyed watching Lombardia yesterday...though can't help but notice that it was one of the most unbelievable results of a generally believable season. A cynic might even point out there were contracts on the line too....
When they were powering up that final climb couldn't see anyone but Martin winning it....but next thing you know Zaugg danced away from them all.
Uh, what?
He's talking about clean cycling.
I have to agree, not that the peloton is clean, but that it's a lot cleaner.
The fact that most Tour contenders were slower on the climbs but Evans was at the same performance as every year, plays a big part in my belief
Contador was also at a similar level to last year in the Giro though. That could be used as a counter.
It plays a big part in my belief that Contador was and is clean!! So please, let WADA come with a final statement in the Contador-case so all rumours and allegations can be stoppped...
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| kumazan |
Posted on 16-10-2011 20:29
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issoisso wrote:
kumazan wrote:
fenian_1234 wrote:
To throw the cat among the pigeons, I enjoyed watching Lombardia yesterday...though can't help but notice that it was one of the most unbelievable results of a generally believable season. A cynic might even point out there were contracts on the line too....
When they were powering up that final climb couldn't see anyone but Martin winning it....but next thing you know Zaugg danced away from them all.
Uh, what?
He's talking about clean cycling.
I have to agree, not that the peloton is clean, but that it's a lot cleaner.
The fact that most Tour contenders were slower on the climbs but Evans was at the same performance as every year, plays a big part in my belief
I think we've had a more believable Tour de France, I'm not so sure about the rest of the year.
Anyway, to point at Zaugg's victory as one of the more unbelievable results (doping-wise) of the season is something I disagree with.
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| owks |
Posted on 16-10-2011 20:33
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Stagiare
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And Yet we still have Cobo winning a vuelta. But i admit ,there have been progress this year.
Though I don't really what to think of rider like Froome or Zaugg who become all of sudden great riders...
Zaugg win was impressive , his attacks was perfect.Never seen him like that.
Edited by owks on 16-10-2011 20:33
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| ruben |
Posted on 16-10-2011 20:34
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Grand Tour Champion
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Lol you guys are being dumb.
End of the season results are always suprising and it has little to do with doping and a lot with freshness.
Dan Martin for instance, said before the race he was dead tired. The fact he still finished up so high says enough, the rest was even more tired. Zaugg was still fresh, and won. Simple as that.
You guys are overly negative |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 02:11
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 16-10-2011 20:38
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ruben wrote:
End of the season results are always suprising and it has little to do with doping and a lot with freshness.
Indeed
Velits finished 3rd in the Vuelta last year and that was also a bit suspicious. He couldn't do aswell this year in the Tour though. From the end of August, most riders are tired and some less famous riders who are still fresh can have greater results. Not competiting in the Tour has a lot of influence on the rest of the season (positive). Prime example is Gilbert owning the finish of the season last year and two season's ago.
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| lennybernstein |
Posted on 16-10-2011 21:10
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It's sad that a surprise result will automatically result in suspicions about doping. I can understand why given cycling's past record, but we should also remember that surprises do happen.
As for Chris Froome, he is one of cycling's biggest doping critics, and I find it hard to believe he doped for the Vuelta. He's always had a lot of potential, but has suffered from bilharzia, which took a lot out of him in the first half of 2011. He obviously came good just at a time when others were tired from long seasons.
Edited by lennybernstein on 16-10-2011 21:53
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| issoisso |
Posted on 16-10-2011 21:22
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Tour de France Champion
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lennybernstein wrote:
As for Chris Froome, he is one of cycling's biggest doping critics, and I find it hard to believe he doped for the Vuelta. He's always had a lot of potential, but has suffered from bilharzia, which took a lot out of him in the first half of 2012. He obviously came good just at a time when others were tired from long seasons.
Tyler Hamilton was as outspoken against doping as I've ever seen anyone be and donated large amounts of his earnings to support the fight against doping.
He tested positive, was banned, then came back, then tested positive again.
Speaking against doping means NOTHING
In Froome's specific case, he had no notable results as a pro, a grand total of zero top 20s in mountain stages (despite years of trying and several GTs under his belt) and had not been offered a contract renewal.
He very much came out of nowhere. Not to mention the cases of people resorting to doping because they were out of a contract and panicked are numerous
Edited by issoisso on 16-10-2011 21:23
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| The Blues |
Posted on 16-10-2011 21:23
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From my, and probably most others aswell, point of view it is very understandable, people have this abrupt suspicions whenever a surprising result happens.
It, as we all know, has its roots in former doping-cases, why people always will pay a lot of attention when it happens, but I think it is significant to remember, surprises do happen - like lennybernstein said, and even though we had had a lot of them this year; still remember, it might not have "an unclean explanation".
But, with that said, I still don't think people shall lose their reasonableness and ability to judge on reasonable grounds (or facts, not to forget).
Edited by The Blues on 16-10-2011 21:25
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 17-10-2011 10:07
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issoisso wrote:
lennybernstein wrote:
As for Chris Froome, he is one of cycling's biggest doping critics, and I find it hard to believe he doped for the Vuelta. He's always had a lot of potential, but has suffered from bilharzia, which took a lot out of him in the first half of 2012. He obviously came good just at a time when others were tired from long seasons.
Tyler Hamilton was as outspoken against doping as I've ever seen anyone be and donated large amounts of his earnings to support the fight against doping.
He tested positive, was banned, then came back, then tested positive again.
Speaking against doping means NOTHING
In Froome's specific case, he had no notable results as a pro, a grand total of zero top 20s in mountain stages (despite years of trying and several GTs under his belt) and had not been offered a contract renewal.
He very much came out of nowhere. Not to mention the cases of people resorting to doping because they were out of a contract and panicked are numerous
THIS
Please carve this to the stone and send it to me as it is exactly what i think. About Zaugg i dont have an opinion, as i havent seen the race yet.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 17-10-2011 10:23
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 17-10-2011 10:23
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World Champion
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Spilak23 wrote:
ruben wrote:
End of the season results are always suprising and it has little to do with doping and a lot with freshness.
Indeed
Velits finished 3rd in the Vuelta last year and that was also a bit suspicious. He couldn't do aswell this year in the Tour though. From the end of August, most riders are tired and some less famous riders who are still fresh can have greater results. Not competiting in the Tour has a lot of influence on the rest of the season (positive). Prime example is Gilbert owning the finish of the season last year and two season's ago.
Velits is completly another case then Froome. He had few stage top 10 finishes in hard Tour stages before that Vuelta sucess,even this year he was 19th overall (which is result Froome could only dream about) and progressed reguraly at the Tour 2008 58th 2009 32nd 2010 3rd at Vuelta 2011 19th . And he was U-23 world champion in 2007.
In opposite Froome was nobody in terms of results, if you are not counting races in Africa as the big cycling event
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 17-10-2011 10:24
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 17-10-2011 11:53
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
ruben wrote:
End of the season results are always suprising and it has little to do with doping and a lot with freshness.
Indeed
Velits finished 3rd in the Vuelta last year and that was also a bit suspicious. He couldn't do aswell this year in the Tour though. From the end of August, most riders are tired and some less famous riders who are still fresh can have greater results. Not competiting in the Tour has a lot of influence on the rest of the season (positive). Prime example is Gilbert owning the finish of the season last year and two season's ago.
Velits is completly another case then Froome. He had few stage top 10 finishes in hard Tour stages before that Vuelta sucess,even this year he was 19th overall (which is result Froome could only dream about) and progressed reguraly at the Tour 2008 58th 2009 32nd 2010 3rd at Vuelta 2011 19th . And he was U-23 world champion in 2007.
In opposite Froome was nobody in terms of results, if you are not counting races in Africa as the big cycling event
Well, an obvious explanation would be the bilharzia, whether it is the explanation is another matter.
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| lennybernstein |
Posted on 17-10-2011 11:57
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Domestique
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The truth is there are many rational explanations for riders' performances. Some are based on doping, some are not. Which explanation we choose to believe comes down to opinion. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 17-10-2011 13:42
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World Champion
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Well, an obvious explanation would be the bilharzia, whether it is the explanation is another matter.
Yeah, i know this one, that one about Harry Potter or Cinderella is also good
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| lagetcher |
Posted on 17-10-2011 13:42
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Sprinter
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
ruben wrote:
End of the season results are always suprising and it has little to do with doping and a lot with freshness.
Indeed
Velits finished 3rd in the Vuelta last year and that was also a bit suspicious. He couldn't do aswell this year in the Tour though. From the end of August, most riders are tired and some less famous riders who are still fresh can have greater results. Not competiting in the Tour has a lot of influence on the rest of the season (positive). Prime example is Gilbert owning the finish of the season last year and two season's ago.
Velits is completly another case then Froome. He had few stage top 10 finishes in hard Tour stages before that Vuelta sucess,even this year he was 19th overall (which is result Froome could only dream about) and progressed reguraly at the Tour 2008 58th 2009 32nd 2010 3rd at Vuelta 2011 19th . And he was U-23 world champion in 2007.
In opposite Froome was nobody in terms of results, if you are not counting races in Africa as the big cycling event
I absolutely agree that Froome's performance at the Vuelta was suspicious, but you can't say he was a complete nobody. 30th on the Alp d'Huez stage in his first ever Grand Tour in 2008 (age 23) isn't exactly bad. Then 3rd in the Giro dell'Appennino in the week after the Tour. It showed some promise at least. |
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