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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| CountArach |
Posted on 12-07-2013 06:25
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Grand Tour Champion
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Yeah lol lost me there.
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| XxMillad24Xx |
Posted on 12-07-2013 06:48
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Stagiare
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I've learned my lesson...
"Cycling is now the the world's cleanest sport." - Chris Froome
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| arthon |
Posted on 12-07-2013 07:25
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Domestique
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alexkr00 wrote:
Well, let's just say Andy Schleck is a bit more credible than Chris Froome, because he didn't come from nowhere to win the Tour de France.
But he came out of nowhere to almost win the Giro, so that's that. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 12-07-2013 11:26
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No, he was a neo pro back then, but he was already seen as a "huge engine" when he rode for French amateur team(s) before turning pro. It wasn't such a surprise.
Frank on the other hand had never shown that kind of talent in the youth categories.
But any Schleck clean ? Come on... |
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| samdiatmh |
Posted on 13-07-2013 05:51
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arthon wrote:
alexkr00 wrote:
Well, let's just say Andy Schleck is a bit more credible than Chris Froome, because he didn't come from nowhere to win the Tour de France.
But he came out of nowhere to almost win the Giro, so that's that.
AndySchleck:
2005: 64th at Lombardia, 15th Tour of Georgia, 118th Volta a Catalunya
2006: 23rd San Sebastien, 45th Tour de Suisse, 73rd Volta a Catalunya
2007: 16th ParisNice, 8th Romandie, 2nd at Giro dÍtalia, 4th at Lombardia
Froome:
2008: 22nd Scheldeprijs, 84th LBL, 81st TDF
2009: 45th LBL, 34th LFW, 35th Giro, 17th WC ITT (ahead of Wiggins)
2010: 71st Volta a Catalunya, 118th LFW, 137 LBL
2011: 61st Volta a Catalunya, 15th Romandie, 47th Tour de Suisse, 2nd Vuelta Espana
Nibali (just for comparison):
2005: 70th LFW, 80th Lombardia, 56th Volta a Catalunya
2006: 66th ParisNice, 70th MSR, 52th SanSebastien
2007: 17th TirrenoAdriatico, 70th LBL, 19th Giro dÍtalia, 34th Lombardia
interesting comparing their results
Edited by samdiatmh on 13-07-2013 05:53
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 13-07-2013 08:48
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Team Leader
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You shoul mention top results instead
for example:
Nibali: 2006: 3rd Eneco Tour, Win Plouay, 8th Pologne (all pro tour races)
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| samdiatmh |
Posted on 13-07-2013 10:31
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I went for comparable races (Volta a Catalunya), Classics, rather than just PT races |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 13-07-2013 10:34
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Tour de France Champion
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samdiatmh wrote:
Nibali (just for comparison):
2005: 70th LFW, 80th Lombardia, 56th Volta a Catalunya
2006: 66th ParisNice, 70th MSR, 52th SanSebastien
2007: 17th TirrenoAdriatico, 70th LBL, 19th Giro dÍtalia, 34th Lombardia
interesting comparing their results
Nibali... Apparently a clean rider now? Italian, Astana, Ferrari... all words well associated with clean cycling
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 11:14
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| cilldroichid |
Posted on 13-07-2013 10:48
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Junior Rider
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XxMillad24Xx wrote:
cachirro wrote: i would accept that from a rider that at junior level starts to get notice, and then progresses to a top senior athlete.
That is why I have always believed guys like Andy Schleck, Sagan, maybe even Cavendish, Dombrowski, Phinney, etc. are clean riders, malnley because they showed talent from the start.
All that might mean is they were doping from the start. I'm not saying they were but it is a possibility so i don't think being a promising junior proves anything one way or the other in relation to doping. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 13-07-2013 11:32
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Exactly. Plus you don't know how they trained. Were they poorly trained but made it thanks to their talent, or slightly less talented but with a more efficient training ? It's hard to tell. Given that, how are you (we) supposed to guess if they were already doping then, started at the pros, or have been riding clean all along ? |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 13-07-2013 11:37
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To get the thread back on-topic: I'd be scared if I saw this in the dark
Edited by Spilak23 on 13-07-2013 11:37
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| Thehenk |
Posted on 13-07-2013 11:53
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Amateur
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We all know Froome has had a disease from which he suffered in 2011 and 2012. It's still in his blood and I suppose he still needs medicine for it to surpress the parasite. Does anyone know what drug he uses for this and what the side effects are? Maybe one of the is a positive effect on the muscles.
Besides that Froome has showed some potential in earlier races than the Vuelta 2011 which was his breakthrough. Sky didn't pick him up for nothing, because they saw potential in him. He has learned alot while riding for Sky regarding tactics and such. For example, not attacking immediately from the beginning of a mountain, but stay longer in the group with the leaders. He wasn't the weakest timerider either, though not the strongest too.
So my guess is that he is also talented, learned tactics at team SKY and maybe has a positive effect from the drug to prevent his parasite. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 13-07-2013 12:02
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Tour de France Champion
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The only known cure for Bilharzia is Praziquantel. It kills vast quantities of everything in your body, red and white cells included. It's a one-time treatment, you do not take it any other time afterwards.
As for Sky seeing potential in him, he went into the 2011 Vuelta with no contract offers from Sky or any other team. His time at Sky was over. Then he magically became a star and Sky had to fight hard for his signature and offer him a lot more money
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Thehenk |
Posted on 13-07-2013 12:11
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Amateur
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I read the prazinguantel part too on wikipedia, but that one is forbidden in the UK following wikipedia, so maybe he has something different. They have to surpress the parasite somoehow.
The second part of your statment is interesting. I had never heard that and that's interesting too. Maybe he started using doping to get a cycling contract... Maybe, but then sky doesn't know about that |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 13-07-2013 12:16
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Tour de France Champion
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I doubt a team that hires notorious doping doctors, riders involved in previous investigations and several riders flagged by the WADA blood passport as suspicious....wouldn't know about a nobody suddenly becoming the best rider on earth
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 13-07-2013 12:22
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Tour de France Champion
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Any drug used to cure Bilharzia will NEVER make you better physically. Pretty much every drug i know of that can be used fucks you up. Bilharzia is a bad thing to get as it will try and kill you, and then the cure will also try and kill you. In the western world can't imagine why people would use Prazinguantel willingly. There are other drugs that are not as damaging.
His Bilharzia might have been a cause for poor results in 2010 and early 2011. But it takes a while for you to come back, anything up to two years to regain your full physical capabilities depending on severity of condition. Nothing explains his average results pre-2010 when he supposedly contracted the illness. If he did have Bilharzia in 2010 i would wager that it was either really early in the year (up to May before treatment started) or from late 2009. Then if it was a normal case he could be back full time training around June 2011, just giving him enough time to get up to race fitness for La Vuelta in late August.
However going from an extremely serious disease, whilst admittedly not being a big killer, to 2nd in La Vuelta is insane! Either Chris Froome is the most remarkable human being ever, or he takes a bucket load of dope. I know which one is more likely and it involves a bucket.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 13-07-2013 12:31
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Me like the bucket for the likes of Froome, along with Dr. Guillotin's tool to stop patients from suffering. |
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| samdiatmh |
Posted on 14-07-2013 05:22
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issoisso wrote:
As for Sky seeing potential in him, he went into the 2011 Vuelta with no contract offers from Sky or any other team. His time at Sky was over. Then he magically became a star and Sky had to fight hard for his signature and offer him a lot more money
then why would Sky renew his contract if he was on PEDs, surely it'd be better for them if some other team paid big bucks, and then he faded back into mediocrity?
TheManxMissile wrote:
However going from an extremely serious disease, whilst admittedly not being a big killer, to 2nd in La Vuelta is insane! Either Chris Froome is the most remarkable human being ever, or he takes a bucket load of dope. I know which one is more likely and it involves a bucket.
just like a certain American that beat cancer and won 7 tour de france's
owait..... 
Edited by samdiatmh on 14-07-2013 05:24
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 14-07-2013 09:14
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Domestique
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Aquarius my friend, I have som candy for you. (Dont know if it has been mentioned)
A danish scientist did make a lot of interesting math calculations about the edge in elite sport. His argument was : Based on Ax3 domains + ITT Froome was around 5.26 % better than his opponents. In elite sport that is a huge number, since the edge is between 0-2 % amongst the elite athletes.
He compared the results to following:
Bolt 100m WR = 1.26 % better than number 2
Marathon Olympic games winner was 0.34 % better
And another similar sport where the edge was 0.12 %
I dont know the numbers exactly after the "dot". But very close to abovementioned, and you get the point. He says Froomes edge is very unlikely and should raise eyebrows, because of the percentage difference. I think the watt/kg numbers are enough to get my blood pumping, but hey this is fuel to the fire.
Love the maths and statistics in elite sports 
EDIT: The danish journalists did present this to Brailsford. Can you get his answer ? YOU DONT KNOW HOW HARD THEY WORKED.
Pathetic.
Btw you never provided me with Froomes watts from the ITT mate ?
Edited by Ybodonk on 14-07-2013 09:15
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 14-07-2013 09:15
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Grand Tour Champion
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samdiatmh wrote:
issoisso wrote:
As for Sky seeing potential in him, he went into the 2011 Vuelta with no contract offers from Sky or any other team. His time at Sky was over. Then he magically became a star and Sky had to fight hard for his signature and offer him a lot more money
then why would Sky renew his contract if he was on PEDs, surely it'd be better for them if some other team paid big bucks, and then he faded back into mediocrity?
Because he was winning? |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
